Academy MH 60 S Helicopter 1/35 scale/

[Rotorman]

Man I love that paint job. Everything looks neat even though you are in the middle of the painting process.

The stencils that I see on the roof and the magazine boxes, are these just spared decals?

I don't have any decals for helicopters and I tried to get some from my spare decals box but they were few and between. I love the magazine boxes that are yellow, it takes away from the all grey cabin that you have.

Good job though Oliver.

-Richard

Eduard pre-painted placards. I used them a lot because they add a touch of color.

[Lyash Igor]

No words! Cool!

[ElboogiE]

Eduard pre-painted placards. I used them a lot because they add a touch of color.

That's a good idea. Thanks for the info Oliver.

-Richard

[norbert]

Hi Oliver

Nice to see your progresses, no change to your awesome paint skills

Norbert

Edited April 21, 2015 by norbert

[kurnass77]

This build is awesome!

Gianni

[Rotorman]

Edited April 24, 2015 by Rotorman

[ElboogiE]

Dang, very nice work Oliver. Your build looks amazing to me.

-Richard

[Rotorman]

I have painted the middle console and seatframes as well...a little more work on them

[kike]

Wow!

Just one little thing from my perspective, not criticism, isn't there like a lot of blue yet? maybe is the lighting or my monitor but on those last pics the blue on the cargo floor just popped out a lot! or maybe that was the idea!?

[Lyash Igor]

Great progress!

[Rotorman]

Hi All.

This will be my final post on ARC.

I have asked the moderator/side owner to remove all my posts over the last 7 years, to cancel my account and delete my user name.

This forum has become a place were nasty comments and putdowns have become a part of the everyday dialogue and I do not care to be part of it any longer.

Thanks everyone for following my builds over the years.

Oliver Doering.

[rotorwash]

Hi All.

This will be my final post on ARC.

I have asked the moderator/side owner to remove all my posts over the last 7 years, to cancel my account and delete my user name.

This forum has become a place were nasty comments and putdowns have become a part of the everyday dialogue and I do not care to be part of it any longer.

Thanks everyone for following my builds over the years.

Oliver Doering.

I hope the Accuracy Police is happy now! No more sloppy Doering builds on here anymnore! Back to what really matters most - perfect scale accuracy in every detail. Screw fun and amazing talent, do it accurate or go home, baby!

Ray

Yeah, that is sarcasm in case it wasn't apparent. I wish you all the best Oliver. I'll find your build on another site I hope.

Edited April 26, 2015 by rotorwash

[kike]

freaking double morals, crtiticizing acuracy and not beeing able to keep it up on his own threads! shame on you!

Now provide us with the same quality and accuracy!

Will follow Oliver wherever he posts his job cause he's one of the best modeler and artist around!

I'm with Ray on this one, hope you are happy!

Sorry to read that Oliver but I totally understand I don't know how he could stay polite!

[hawkwrench]

As someone who up until a month or so would chime in with accuracy comments, I realized one day that modeling should be fun, whether you count rivets or not. Since that day, I have no longer posted accuracy criticism posts, because not everybody worries about accuracy on their builds. Not everybody wants to make their model look like a miniature of the real thing.

Oliver, if I in any way helped to influence your cancellation here on ARC, I sincerely and with deepest regret, but with total humility and honesty say that I'm truly sorry for what I have said.

I wish you would reconsider your choice and just take the comments as water under the bridge.

I hope to see you continue your builds here, but if not, then at least on another modelling forum.

Gino, I hope your happy and maybe one day, you too will realize that modelling is a hobby, a getaway from stress, and most of all, it it suppose to be fun, whether accurate or not!

Tim

[ElboogiE]

I do want to say something.

It amazes me in our day and age that we cannot be on a forum and share technical and modelling skills to a audience and not belittle the subject because something is not accurate.

I want Oliver to know that I have never looked at your build as to a technical manual for that certain helicopter.

I looked at your site because the artistic value that you put in your construction of the model and are amazed at your painting skills. I know that when I look at a certain helicopter, you try to make it as accurate as possible but when you paint something that is not the actual color, I just look at the painting process or the scratch building of that part and it usually amazes me.

I just want to say that anyone who uses this forum to show off what you know about a certain subject (aircraft, helicopters, etc) and brag about what you know by belittling a certain subject or model, then I don't welcome your input.

I want people who are technical to answer my questions about a certain part of a helicopter and share their modelling techniques with me to make me a better modeler. If the subject is not ACCURATE, in my opinion, I don't give a hell, especially if the author of the subject is kind to let us know it is not a actual representation of the subject.

If the person didn't win awards like best aircraft, in the show and guess what, these helicopters that won him those awards, weren't actual representation of the helicopter either. I mean if a judge can give someone a award for the best aircraft in the entire show, they must be looking at the artistic side of the model.

I wish Oliver well and I hope he keeps in touch on my build and any other builds I do on a aircraft.

-Richard

[rotorwash]

I do want to say something.

It amazes me in our day and age that we cannot be on a forum and share technical and modelling skills to a audience and not belittle the subject because something is not accurate.

I want Oliver to know that I have never looked at your build as to a technical manual for that certain helicopter.

I looked at your site because the artistic value that you put in your construction of the model and are amazed at your painting skills. I know that when I look at a certain helicopter, you try to make it as accurate as possible but when you paint something that is not the actual color, I just look at the painting process or the scratch building of that part and it usually amazes me.

I just want to say that anyone who uses this forum to show off what you know about a certain subject (aircraft, helicopters, etc) and brag about what you know by belittling a certain subject or model, then I don't welcome your input.

I want people who are technical to answer my questions about a certain part of a helicopter and share their modelling techniques with me to make me a better modeler. If the subject is not ACCURATE, in my opinion, I don't give a hell, especially if the author of the subject is kind to let us know it is not a actual representation of the subject.

If the person didn't win awards like best aircraft, in the show and guess what, these helicopters that won him those awards, weren't actual representation of the helicopter either. I mean if a judge can give someone a award for the best aircraft in the entire show, they must be looking at the artistic side of the model.

I wish Oliver well and I hope he keeps in touch on my build and any other builds I do on a aircraft.

-Richard

Yep, we are almost all members of the Oliver Doering fan club, if that bothers anybody, THEY should find another site!

Ray

[kike]

IMHO it's ok to look for accuracy but getting a*al about it is just not funny anymore, one can tell other how it is, but respect the fact that the modeller wants to do it his own way, and mostly if he does it with this level of skills! such a good material lost for us beginners to learn.....

[hawkwrench]

Oliver's Huey build was the push for me to get back into modelling at a time when I actually considered not modelling anymore.His details (not accuracy!!!) just blew me away and I was looking forward to a hawk build from him, but my mouth overloaded my sense of respect during his MH-60 build.

His scratchbuilding skills are second to none and now we probably will never see that level of SB ever again. I actually feel bad right now for everything I said, but as the old cliche says, "You can't change the past, your words cannot be retracted, all you can do now is feel genuinely sorry and learn to choose your words more carefully next time"

I for one have learned my lesson. I'm glad I woke up one day and realized that what I was saying was probably hurting somebody and THAT is what I feel the most bad about right now!!!

In a time when their is a push to get people INTO modelling, now is not the time to push someone OUT of modelling.

I think the moderator should change the guidelines, so that their are no putdowns, harsh words or stark criticism of someone's model build allowed to be posted on any thread here on ARC.

Out of guilt and shame for what I've help to cause here to happen to night and out of respect for Oliver, who just like all of us, likes to build models and show off his work, I've made the decision to not post my MH-60M build. Why should I still enjoy that privledge, when it was taken away from him.

Oliver, again, "I'm sorry I offended you my friend!"

Tim

[rotorwash]

Oliver's Huey build was the push for me to get back into modelling at a time when I actually considered not modelling anymore.His details (not accuracy!!!) just blew me away and I was looking forward to a hawk build from him, but my mouth overloaded my sense of respect during his MH-60 build.

His scratchbuilding skills are second to none and now we probably will never see that level of SB ever again. I actually feel bad right now for everything I said, but as the old cliche says, "You can't change the past, your words cannot be retracted, all you can do now is feel genuinely sorry and learn to choose your words more carefully next time"

I for one have learned my lesson. I'm glad I woke up one day and realized that what I was saying was probably hurting somebody and THAT is what I feel the most bad about right now!!!

In a time when their is a push to get people INTO modelling, now is not the time to push someone OUT of modelling.

I think the moderator should change the guidelines, so that their are no putdowns, harsh words or stark criticism of someone's model build allowed to be posted on any thread here on ARC.

Out of guilt and shame for what I've help to cause here to happen to night and out of respect for Oliver, who just like all of us, likes to build models and show off his work, I've made the decision to not post my MH-60M build. Why should I still enjoy that privledge, when it was taken away from him.

Oliver, again, "I'm sorry I offended you my friend!"

Tim

Tim,

Don't beat yourself up too bad, man. I was watching the thread and saw that you stopped critiquing him when it became apparent tahat wasn't his thing. Oliver has inspired a lot of us with his work. I will also say that many of us DO want the accuracy critique so let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. You just have to take the hint when you give accuracy advice and it's not wanted. Some folks just need a mallet over the head to figure it out is all! Keep on keeping on with your Hawk, my friend, it is looking great!

Ray

Edited April 26, 2015 by rotorwash

[HeavyArty]

I never asked nor wanted him to leave. If he can't take a little criticism, so be it. I wish him well and hope he can get over it.

[11bee]

I never asked nor wanted him to leave. If he can't take a little criticism, so be it. I wish him well and hope he can get over it.

Gino,

You surely can't be serious? "A little criticism"?

I've been following Oliver's builds since I first joined ARC 6 years ago and one common trait is that in every single thread of his, you have been riding him due to the fact that he is building his kits the way he wants to instead of the way you feel they should be built. After all these years, it goes way beyond criticism and is now into the category of outright harassment.

Your continued harassment over "accuracy" issues is especially ironic given what I have seen in your builds.

ARC as a whole seems to be dying a slow death these days, most forums are down to 4-5 posts per day, so it's especially sad to see a long-time member call it quits due to someone like you.

[rotorwash]

I never asked nor wanted him to leave. If he can't take a little criticism, so be it. I wish him well and hope he can get over it.

Dude, you need to seriously rethink your definition of criticism. How the heck can you post a build with at least half a dozen innaccuracies that you just blow off when someone brings them up and then see it as your "JOB" top correct the innacuracies in Oliver's build. You even wrote this back in February "I just won't be wasting any more time supplying references or answering any more accuracy questions here since they are ignored" and yet you still nitpicked everything Oliver does. Seriously man, you are not the ONLY guy who's ever built a Blackhawk! Also, I took the time to look back and not ONE nice word from you on Oliver's work. Would it kill you to at least give him props for his abilities. How would you feel if I or a fellow ARCer took you to task every time you made an accuracy error and NEVER complimented your work. Sorry, but I am really annoyed right now. I hope anyone else reading this will take the time to let Oliver know what you think of his builds and how you feel about this issue as this thread will be gone soon.

Ray

Edited April 28, 2015 by rotorwash

[HeavyArty]

You need to reread some of my posts then. I have said multiple times that he is an amazing scratch-builder. I just don't like the outcome and think he is wasting his talents on totally inaccurate builds, my opinions. If he wants to be childish, pack up his toys and go home, oh well. Grow up. As to accuracy, I have never said I achieve total accurate either. I do strive for it though, often failing.

[kike]

Let it go Ray, do you really think Gino is gonna accept he was looking for it? Now is just a matter of Oliver misunderstanding his nice words and "sugestions" and being childish cause he was just tires of that crap.

People lime that can't stand someone better at what they try to do and since they can't criticize skills he looks for anything else, not going anywhere with this kind of argument, the fact is Oliver is gone and he is right about it. and Gino, as we say here in Guatemala "trew the stone and now he's hiding his hand". I'm over this thread!

Thanx for everything you shared here Oliver really appreciated for most of us.

[rotorwash]

Kike,

Sorry man, but this needs ot be addressed here and now. I love this site and the builders on it. This thread will be gone soon anyway so I'm going to have my say. I understand if folks don't want to read it though.

Gino,

You said"You need to reread some of my posts then. I have said multiple times that he is an amazing scratch-builder. I just don't like the outcome and think he is wasting his talents on totally inaccurate builds, my opinions. If he wants to be childish, pack up his toys and go home, oh well. Grow up. As to accuracy, I have never said I achieve total accurate either. I do strive for it though, often failing"

I should have realized that you need proof to believe anything so here you go. This is everything you said regarding Oliver's build. Yeah, I know it's probably childish but I was bored with time on my hands. I bolded the praise you heaped on him. I could only find one instance of you calling him an amazing scratch builder before today, but I do apologize for my hyperbole earlier. You clearly did pay him a few compliments. Look though this though and see how you would feel if they were directed at you with the 3 complimentts thrown in. Two of which, by the way, are followed by digs at his accuarcy. I do apologize if my obsesssion with this bothers anyone. It just hit me the wrong way today I guess.

Ray

"Yup, you guessed it...the cabin is grey."

"The ESSS mount location is correct in the Academy kits and the build-up of this kit. It is over the forward bulkhead (between the gunner's window and the cargo door forward opening), not in the cargo door."

"I plan on folding the rotors and tail too. They shouldn't be too hard to do. The blade props are just rods. The rest is just details."

"Verlinden makes a bunch of 1/32 USN Deck Tractors that could be used. The most appropriate would be either the modern Fire Tractor or Tow Tractor for moving aircraft. 2714 Modern Fire Tractor"

"I'm not following your comparison. What are the scales of the tugs and jeep in the pic? "

"Good deal. I just ordered one as well. Can you take some detailed pics of the new sprue and post them here? Any details on the interior of the new doors? "

"Lucky you. Mine is still between here and Korea. A question for you. How do the new parts look? Specifically, are there any details on the insides of the new doors? On the deck tractor, I'm not so sure it is too big. Are you using actual dimensions to convert the jeep? If not, the Verlinden one is probably closer since the actual deck tractor is not based on a jeep frame and is a lot wider than a jeep. "

"As to the deck tractor, I'm still not convinced it is too much out of scale to work. The actual vehicle is pretty big and very wide. It is as wide as a Huey. Also, that Academy Huey crew chief figure is undersized in my opinion."

"Looking good. "-Here's one nice comment

"The MH-60S above has the standard OD Green sound-proofing blankets on the ceiling. Standard Army MH-60L/Ms also have this soundproofing on the ceiling. "

"What are you using as a reference for your ceiling layout? It doesn't look like any actual H-60 ceiling w/out soundproofing I have seen."

"I will be building an exposed roof, don't think it will be on this MH-60S though, so no time soon. I'm sure it will look good when done, just not very accurate. I would at least redo the trans drip pan to be more accurate. The other area is all the hoses(?), they look off to me, they should be wire bundles. Lastly, by building it on top of the existing roof, the cabin height will now be too low. To do it right, you really need to cut away the existing roof and build it with the lowest portion being even with the existing roof line. Don't get me wrong, it will look awesome. I just like to build with a little more accuracy. To each their own. "

"Hi Floyd. Sorry, none specifically from an MH-60, but the layout is the same. They have a few more boxes and more wiring, but the rest is the same. "

"The use of M134 miniguns is interesting. I have not seen any MH-60S use them. They are either unarmed, or mount M240 7.62mm MGs in the gunners' windows and .50 cals on the unique Navy mount, shown in an earlier post in this thread, in the cargo doors. Also, if you mount the ammo cans where you have them, the gunners can't stand in the windows to fire the guns. They should be side by side along the center-line of the aircraft."

"Greg - no offense to Rotorman, but his roof looks nothing like an actual H-60 roof. I wouldn't copy it if I were you. Check out this thread to see what they actually look like. There are plans there to build an accurate exposed roof as well. "

"They are 7.62mm ammo cans, but M240s use small 7.62mm cans attached to the guns. They are not belt fed. Even if they could be used, they would still be in the way. "

"Richard, don't take my and others comments as bashing Oliver and his builds. He does great work. We are only providing information for all who read the posts on accuracy and actual helos. Like you say, it is just a model and he or anyone else can build it how they like. Some of us see our models as miniatures of actual aircraft and try to build them as accurate as possible as a tribute to those who fly them and operate out of them. As such, we provide info on the forums for others who wish to do the same. No one is demanding Oliver or anyone else changes their models based on this info, we are just putting it out there for anyone who wants to use it. Everyone builds for different reasons and to differing levels of accuracy. To each their own. "- Ok here's another one

"All of the H-60 series have a transmission drip pan on the ceiling right under the transmission that the two engine prop shafts go into to combine their power and pass it to the main and tail rotor shafts. The drip pan is the grey square on the roof in the below picture. The five circles on it are inspection ports to look up into the transmission compartment. The hoses coming off it are to drain away any excess transmission fluid that drips down onto the pan. The Academy kit does not include this part. It is included in the Eduard Interior PE set or you can scratch it pretty easily out of sheet styrene. Here is a template of the cabin details that has the drip pan on it (lower left side)."

"Doh, I knew that. It looked like it faced the rear in the pics. Now I see it though. I need to stop drinking so much wine w/dinner. I stand (well sit anyways) corrected. I fixed the post."

"Sorry kike, but your statement still doesn't hold water. When pieces start getting cast and sold commercially, people think they are accurate, since that is the point of AM pieces. This roof is not only not accurate to the core, it is nowhere near accurate. I'm glad you like it, but it is all wrong and doesn't need to be on the market to propagate inaccuracy on a grand scale. Oliver and I have had the accuracy discussion before and I know he doesn't really care about it. That's fine. But when you promote a totally fictional piece as accurate, then I have issues."

"The instrument panel angle is correct. The top will sit just about against the bottom of the windshield opening when done."

"The cutouts in the floor by the foot pedals should be there. They are so the pilots can see out the lower chin windows. They should not be filled in. All the details you have added behind the instrument panel are fictional as well. That area is bare of boxes and does not have the ribbing you have added. It is just has a bunch of wires that go up to the panel from under the center console and through the front wall that is in the kit. The kit is pretty accurate in these areas. Just like all the access plates on the floor you have added. They are not present on actual Black Hawks either. The floor is pretty flat except for a bunch of recessed tie-down rings for the seats. "

"As I have said before, yes, Oliver's scratch-building ability is awesome. I still respect his abilities, but just like Tim, I don't get why anyone would go through all the trouble of super-detailing when you are just making stuff up and not making it more accurate? To each their own. However, I will continue to point out that the details are off so others don't try to duplicate the inaccuracies on their models because they think this one is accurate at all. Merry Christmas." -a compliment followed by a nice accuracy dig.

"The seat supports are at about a 45 degree angle going from the front of the seat toward the back wall on the floor."

"The triangle is a piece of fabric that covers two wires in an "X" pattern that secure the front of the seat to the floor. No, the seats are always grey. "

"As Tim said, yup. The Mike was the first to get the new seats, and they still look grey to me. The rear and side wall soundproofing are green, but the seats till look grey. "

"Maybe it is my monitor, but they look different. The seats are not the same grey as the floor, but still look a grey color to me. "

"Not usually. The standard place for the fire extinguisher on all H-60s is on the gunner's bulkhead behind the pilots' seats, as in the below pics. The Academy wall sections are not fully correct since they do not have the soundproofing and the cut out for the extinguisher. Cobra Company's 1/35 Scale UH-60L Correction / Detail set has the correct walls, and some other great parts to dress up any Black Hawk variant."

"I say get the CC set(s) and decide for yourself. I find the wall sections just fine as long as the seats are placed correctly. As they are in the kit, they sit too high and lean back too far. From my experience, the CC sets are great and will add much needed details to any build you use them on. Their new 1/35 MH-60S Knight Hawk set is really nice. "

"What cross-braces?? There are no cross-braces on the troop seats. The securing wires go from the front of the seat to the holes in the floor directly below the front edge of the seat. They cross under the front of the seat. They do not go back at all. When disconnected and the seats are folded up, the wires just hang on the underside of the seat bottom."

"Who are you hearing? You are obviously not taking anyone's advice on how the actual helicopter is built or its components. Why even ask for pictures or advice if you are going to ignore it and continue to build a fictional aircraft? "

"I'm having a fine week. I would hardly compare the one inaccuracy (the IP, which I acknowledged and consciously decided to use; the nose is not that far off and I don't expect everyone to fix the kit) on my N to the totally fictional interior here, just like his Huey, which was way overloaded, among other things. Whatever you like though. If a great build equals a bunch of excess plastic added to it, then I guess it is a great build. I just won't be wasting any more time supplying references or answering any more accuracy questions here since they are ignored."

"I guess it is pile on day. As I showed in my thread with pics, there were some that used those pillars. I thought we just agreed to disagree. "

"I take constructive criticism just fine. We just disagree on the pillars since I have pics of the CC pillars in D/H models and have seen them in N models. You just won't accept it. So, as I said before, we will just have to agree to disagree. Let it go man. "

"There would not be two or more different maps on the IP. The MFDs (Multi-Function Display) are mainly used to show digital instruments and aircraft systems information. There would usually be only one GPS map display at any given time. The standard is that the outer two MDFs are kept on the digital instrument clusters. The inner right MFD is kept on aircraft systems and weapons (if carried). And the inner left MFD shows the GPS map for navigation."

"I'm not sure which system the USN uses on the MH-60S. The Army uses the FRIES (Fast Rope Insertion / Extraction System) which looks like below. From what I can see in pics of fast-roping MH-60Ss, I am pretty sure it is FRIES, but I am not positive since I haven't found any close-ups of the rig on the ceiling."

" Why would you want to use this method at all? It looks nothing like the actual instrument faces. They should not have the whole instrument with a dome of resin over them. Only the round opening is glass and it is flat, not domed. The same for MFDs; they too are flat, not domed. I'll stick to clear gloss in the openings to replicate the flat glass."

"A few issues with the above pic. The seats are folded incorrectly, they should fold up from the bottom with the legs on the outside. The way you have them, the side you have out are the part that you would be sitting on, it should be the underside that shows. The red circles are the seat belt releases and should be black. The tabs on the upper part of the belts should be black, not silver. Lastly, the seats will not stay up on their own and must be held in the folded position by the seat belts."

"nother accuracy note for anyone else building a Hawk model w/M134 miniguns. The yellow battery boxes should not be there. All MH-60 helicopters are hard-wired for the ammo feed motors and do not use the battery boxes. They are used on vehicles and aircraft that are not wired for the guns. Additionally, they would not be yellow, but either black or dark green. "

"Yes, the colors are very artistic. "

"I never asked nor wanted him to leave. If he can't take a little criticism, so be it. I wish him well and hope he can get over it. "

"You need to reread some of my posts then. I have said multiple times that he is an amazing scratch-builder. I just don't like the outcome and think he is wasting his talents on totally inaccurate builds, my opinions. If he wants to be childish, pack up his toys and go home, oh well. Grow up. As to accuracy, I have never said I achieve total accurate either. I do strive for it though, often failing."