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Panel Lines, Filler, Putty, Re-Scribe, Scribe, Sand, Repeat


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No, really. I give. What's the Magic word?

Here's the story.

1:72 scale F-101B. Revell. Nice kit, mostly. some seam issues, so, hey, let's putty them.

Then sand,

CRAP! all the fine recessed panel lines are gone! Okay. Keep cool they make tools and videos about scribing.

I can do this.

Watch Videos, Acquire tools and putty....

Mask and Putty and make smooth as best I can.

Re-scribe. Too deep, DANG IT. Ok. Fill with putty. Sand, re-scribe. Looks like crap. Re-Scribe TOO DEEP.

Slip off the line, create Panel Lines at odd angles where there shouldn't be any. Ok, More reading and videos.

Go and buy DYMO tape. Yea! AND no.....Nice and straight, but still look odd and too deep, or too wide.

The putty (green, white, tried them both) seems to be a little...ummm...Crumbly and soft when you scribe into it.

I let the putty cure over-night. Every time.

It starts to dry really quickly. I mean it goes to a smooth, easy to spread and level, paste, to a balled up crumbly mass in just seconds.

These are new tubes of goo. Not old stuff here.

Here's the list of tools/things I have tried:

Squadron Scribing Tool

Trumpeter Scribing Tool

Sewing Needle chucked in a Pin Vise

Dental Pics

Dull X-Acto

Sharp X-acto

Scalpel

White Putty (2 brands)

Green Putty

Thinned Green, and Thinned White

Haven't tried:

Super Glue

Plastic Welder with bits of plastic

Slamming the model on the ground and rolling my chair over it.

A hammer

Dremel tool with cut off wheel...

A Torch

Bondo

Air Chisel

Fire

If it's just a lack of practice, I'm cool with that.

I can buy another F-101B, and call this a learning experience. I'm okay with that.

But If I am practicing the WRONG technique, then that would be counter productive.

I don't like Counter Productive,

and I'm NOT Okay with that.

Any of you Guru's have any advice? A technique you like? Tools you HATE / Love?

Like General Beringer in War Games Said:

"I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it'd do any good!"

Jester

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I'm still trying to improve my scribing technique myself, but one thing I've learnt is scribing and putty don't mix at least not for me. I switched to CA for filling seams purposes and it helped tremendously. It doesn't crumble and tear up like putty does. Also, I've learnt that you shouldn't apply any pressure to your scribing tool. The weight of the tool alone is all you need. Just pull the tool along your Dymo tape a few times letting it do the work.

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Okay, so just straight up Super Glue for filling.

Does it not get too hard to scribe/sand?

I read somewhere that CA Glues actually cure harder than the plastic, maybe that's over time?

I'm NOT disputing what you say, not at all, I'm just curious.

If you say it works I'm trying it tonight!

Jester

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Okay, so just straight up Super Glue for filling.

Does it not get too hard to scribe/sand?

I read somewhere that CA Glues actually cure harder than the plastic, maybe that's over time?

I'm NOT disputing what you say, not at all, I'm just curious.

If you say it works I'm trying it tonight!

Jester

I would like to know too. I tried the Super Glue method once on an Emhar Demon ( panel lines worse than Matchbox) but it ended up so hard that it was like trying to scribe onto granite rock.

Jester, with regards to the putty & sand method for seams and small gaps, are you familiar with this technique?

Filling and Sanding, Without Sandpaper

Same technique:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/Su27/day7.htm

Others:

http://www.arcair.com/TnT-archives/Filling/01.shtm

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JackMan,

I tried something similar, and I got good results, BUT, as you smooth the not so cured putty it will run into the surrounding panel lines, and then you have to re-scribe them, after it cures. Unless you can dig the putty out before it dries.

But yeah, I think that is one of the better ways to fill a gap.

Still had the same problem with trying to scribe that putty though.

Jester

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I try to use as little putty as possible, just for this reason. I try to fill most of the gaps with scraps of sheet styrene and/or dissolved bits of sprue in an old bottle of Ambroid Pro Weld.

I wonder if you could "sand" the panel lines back in to the putty with a piece of thread. It probably wouldn't work for concave areas like wing fillets, but around the fuselage it might be worth a try.

-Dave

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I've been able to create panel lines over putty with success. The key is to do it slowly. Regular scribing tools won't work. I make a first pass with a #11 blade to mark the path and then etch down by running the blade backwards repeatedly but lightly. Final cleanup is done with a sharp toothpick.

Some putties flake more than others. You might try another brand.

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I am by no means a scribing expert. BUT from the builds I've observed, the guys that seem to do the best panel line re-scribes use the melted plastic sprue technique. It seems to "blend" better with the lines that are scribed in the kit's plastic because it's the same plastic. I've been meaning to try this technique I just haven't yet. I'm curious as well what's the best AND easiest to do.

Bill

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Various thoughts:

1. It's mostly practice. Every modeller will find a technique that works for them; there are no silver bullets, or magic fixes. It's mostly just perfecting your own personal technique with time and effort.

2. Putties tend to be difficult to scribe through. They're prone to flaking. Squadron's stuff particularly so. Tamiya's and Gunze's putties tend to be a bit better, so you may want to try one of them.

3. I find the best way to scribe putty isn't to scribe it, but to *saw* it. I like to use a micro-fine razor blade saw (the JLC saws, though CMK also makes them, and there are many photoetched saws that are equally thin and fine). It's more of a filing action than a cutting or scribing action, really, and it minimizes the chances of flaking and chipping. Note: I'm NOT talking about using a razor saw. I mean one of these http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/images/JLC001%20Spare%20Saw%20Blade%20JLC%20Saw.jpg

4. CA works fine, but it tends to be harder than surrounding plastic. That can lead to problems if your pressure is uneven. Again, I like to saw through CA; I try to only *scribe* through plastic.

5. If your lines are too heavy, you're either pushing too hard, making too many passes, or using a scribing tool that's too wide. Most "scribing tools" cut a pretty wide swath - they're more appropriate for Matchbox trenches than Hasegawa lines. I prefer a sewing pin, personally, as it's got about as fine a point as you'll find. Try to make multiple, light passes rather than a couple of heavy passes. The first ones should barely mark the surface - you just want to sketch out the line, rather than carve a groove. There are two big benefits to this: first is that it's easier to avoid and correct mistakes (no big trenches veering off at random), and secondly it allows you to carefully control line width. Each pass gets a little wider and a little deeper; stop when you're satisfied.

6. If you ARE using putties, the longer you can leave it, the better. If you can smell the slightest hint of solvent, it hasn't stopped curing, which means it hasn't stopped shrinking. And chances are, once you've sanded off the surface layer, there's still more solvent trapped underneath. A couple of days would be preferable to overnight.

7. If you *just* need to remove excess filler from panel lines, you don't need to full-on re-scribe. You can usually get rid of it by carefully chiseling it out with the tip of a broken X-acto. Work carefully and you should be able to follow along the existing panel lines.

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1. When scribing,little pressure,go slow,learn to hold it properly so you got control,not scriber. I use Tamiya plastic scriber II and RB Productions RB-T019,great combo for

all tasks.

2. When filling,use super glue when you need to rescribe over it. Don't wait too long, about 20 minutes and you can sand it and scribe over it. That way you don't deal with

rock hard surface. I usually use Zap a gap Medium.

When you just need to fill a small gap use plastic putty (wings joints,etc.), that way you can moisten cotton swab and remove excess putty and make it smooth. Light

sanding is also possible when dried. I use Vallejo plastic putty.

Small scratches and simular,use Mr.Surfacer, great for task like that. Bare in mind,you need to do it a few times,because it will shrink a lot ,for best results,wait 24 hours or more.

3. For sanding,I only use Flory Models sticks. Apsolutly great,best one I ever use. Many grades,skinny and normal ones,wet and dry sanding,long lasting. Always use proper sanders,

so,when you sand curved parts (nose cone,tanks,etc.) use spongy sticks.

Hope it helps a little.

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As mentioned, if you use CA dont wait too long to scribe it. I use the extra thin CA to fill in, set it aside for a few minutes while it dries, then sand it smooth and then scribe. I'm normally working on two pieces at once and my normal cadence is to lay some glue down on one piece, and while it dries i sand and scribe the other piece. In the time its taken me to work on that piece the glue is about perfectly dried on the original piece.

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Great tips everyone! :thumbsup:/>

2. When filling,use super glue when you need to rescribe over it. Don't wait too long, about 20 minutes and you can sand it and scribe over it. That way you don't deal with

rock hard surface.

That must have been my mistake. Since it was my first time with this technique, I left the super glue on for a couple of days :doh:

Actually I've had a fear of superglue since I accidentally glued my fingers together as a boy. I had to cut my fingers free with a penknife.

demotivational-posters-crazy-glue.jpg

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I think someone mentioned the UMM scribers. They are definitely your last purchase for scribing tools. I have probably three or four other various kinds in my inventory that were part of the experimental phase before I stumbled across the UMM sorts. I have both them, and they do work wonders. They do take some getting use to, but for the basics, they are very reliable, and usually anytime you suffer a slip, it's because of your own doings. Most times these days, I can deepend default panel lines on their own by simply running the scribing tool along the lines themselves. They way they've beveled the edge allows it to almost guide itself within the panel line, making it very accurate, and reliable. As for gaps...I try to avoid putty anymore if I can. If it's noticeable enough, then you should be able to fill it with strip styrene, and if it's something that's just barely noticeable, then reach for either the Mr. Surfacer, or Mr. Dissolved Putty, which I use a lot these days, as it's way less mess, and plays nicely with scribing once fully allowed to dry. There is no flaking associated at all with either of those. But you can also do what someone above mentioned as far as melting scrap styrene, and using that as a filler. I take a razor, and whittle small pieces of sprue off of some excess, and add it to a paint jar lid filled with straight acetone. Within about 15 minutes you should have a sludge that will fill gaps. Be careful with this, because you don't want the acetone to start running in places that it shouldn't be. But if you'll collect some with a toothpick, and let it drip for a minute, then you should be able to apply it with pretty good control over the area without making too much of a mess. This is the same plastic as the molds, so you'll get the best mileage from this method, but it is a bit of a process to get it going.

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Awesome tips/Techniques!

So far i have been trying CA glue, Zap Slo-Zap gap filling CA. works very well, patience and really small amounts is the trick, and not letting it get too hard.

I have been using a sewing needle with some success. I find that angle is everything. Starting the line with the needle, then using the smallest scribe tool

I can find to make one or two passes, the back to the needle to clean the line after sanding.

I still think I am going to blow 12 bucks on the UMM tool. There are 2, one is smaller than the other. 25 for both is doable.

Putting the rivets/bolt detail back in, is, well...Tedious, but I am actually enjoying it.

The Rivet tool I have quickly gets out of hand, but I'm learning to use it.

Ya know, 30 years ago, I didn't do any of this. Just build it and paint it.

Still they came out pretty nice.

Yeah there was some detailing going on, but I did it mostly with paint.

I like this better. Add things first, then paint.

And now for a TMI moment:

I'm at home today trying to pass a Kidney Stone. Oddly, scribing lines and punching little holes, is helping keep my mind off of my malady.

This model making thing should really be used as therapy.

People who don't do this, are really missing out on something wonderful.

Patience, concentration, Painting, building, assembling, following directions(sometimes), then ending up with something really cool.

I don't know. Could be the Pain Meds talking....

B)/>

Jester.

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I would like to know too. I tried the Super Glue method once on an Emhar Demon ( panel lines worse than Matchbox) but it ended up so hard that it was like trying to scribe onto granite rock.

I have found the key to using super glue is apply as little as possible and sand and rescribe it as soon as its dries because the longer it sits the harder it gets and don't use an accelerator it gets to hard to fast. Liquid sprue works also, but it takes forever to dry.

Edited by jfmajor60
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I have found the key to using super glue is apply as little as possible and sand and rescribe it as soon as its dries because the longer it sits the harder it gets and don't use an accelerator it gets to hard to fast. Liquid sprue works also, but it takes forever to dry.

I generally use an accelerator with super glue and it works very well. The key is to work on it as soon as you wipe of the accelerator. If you're filling and rescribing, you just apply CA, add accelerator, wipe off, sand, scribe, and you're done. It speeds things up a lot and the CA won't shrink, which can happen when it dries naturally. I use the Tamiya scriber and like it a lot, but I've been eying the UMM one given all the good reviews.

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I generally use an accelerator with super glue and it works very well. The key is to work on it as soon as you wipe of the accelerator. If you're filling and rescribing, you just apply CA, add accelerator, wipe off, sand, scribe, and you're done. It speeds things up a lot and the CA won't shrink, which can happen when it dries naturally. I use the Tamiya scriber and like it a lot, but I've been eying the UMM one given all the good reviews.

thats good to know Lucas thx, I have a bad habit of letting it sit to long then its as hard as a rock.

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Scribing tips from a regular guy.

Note: By Regular Guy I mean I am no expert. I'm just a regular guy trying to build models, have some fun, and be creative.

Doesn't mean I'm not trying, just means I'm not there...probably never will be, but it's a low priority goal.

I like tips and tricks. I like to do a good job, something I'm proud of. I like to look at other peoples work and strive to be as good or better than they are.

Ultimately I'm trying to have some fun. If it isn't fun, then there really is no point. I already have a job, know what I mean?

Anyway:

1) Scribing=Tedium. I treat it like therapy. I concentrate on breathing slowly. Patience Grasshopper. The slow hand wins.

2) Tools are everything. Use what works well for the type and shape of line you are scribing or re scribing.

3) Putty sucks. If you fill a mistake you made, or one the manufacturer made, with straight putty, it's going to flake on you when you re-scribe.

Mix it with something that gets hard, or use something that acts more like plastic.

I have only tried Squadron putties and the Tamyia white. Neither works well on it's own.

4) Superglue works okay as filler, BUT, if you wait too long it's hard as quartz, and just as tough to sand. Then when you scribe, or re-scribe, it will either crumble, or craze.

Timing is everything with the superglue. I hate that word. How about CA glue. That's better.

5) What works? Well, a little of both. If the line is deep, or its a gap where a panel line is, go with the tip in another post. Fill it with styrene. then sand and re-scribe.

a] CA Glue. Works fine for "run-off" mistakes. Fill your mistake with the CA, then let it set, then sand. Works good. Don't re-scribe over it, unless it's shallow, and short.

b] Putty- honestly I have not made this work reliably yet. If I mix a little Liquid Cement or Acetone into it, it does work better. Still flakes on scribing though.

6) Run a little Liquid cement down the lines you create. It softens the edges and really clears out the line.

7) DON"T clean the scribed line with the scribing tool after you sand. Use a sharp "Cocktail" stick. I found some double ended wooden skewers at the Grocery store.

They're about 4 inches long and SHARP on both ends. These work great for clearing the dust out of the scribed line. Did I mention they are Sharp?

Tools:

1) Sewing Needle in a pin vise. Great for 1/72 shallow panel lines, great for curves. Don't use just the point, angle at about 45 and let the point trail the line. this works well on the putty.

basically you are "denting" the putty or plastic at a steep angle. This "Technique" does not work well on CA, obviously. Too rock like.

2) Dymo tape. Great for long straight lines. cut in thirds for curves and around fuselage lines.

3) Trumpeter/ Pro-Scribe "hook" type scribing tools. They work pretty well, but it is really easy to go too deep, or too wide. they also are tough to use free hand if there is barely a line or no line. They wander like my grandpa.

4) UMM tool--On order, I'll let you know. I also ordered some of UMM's super fine smooth saws. Those look like the stuff! Again I'll let you know.

AND the most important thing I learned?

The lines I scribed looked SO MUCH BETTER after I put a wash on them.

None of my lines looked factory until I put a coat of paint down and pin washed them.

If you are like me, and you are a believer in "Crappy Prep=Crappy Paint" then this is the exception.

My Scribe work looked like hell. the sides were raised, the depth varied, there were some slight curves (under magnification of course. I can't work without my Mag Visor.), there were run-off's.

After priming, and Uber-Fine Grit Sanding, then a test color coat, then a test pin wash, my lines looked MUCH better than I thought.

I use Enamels. I like 'em, and I have been using them for years. It's what I started with, back 100 years ago.

I have some Acrylics, and I'm learning to use them. Mostly on Figures for now.

I could expand on this "What Have I Learned" Diatribe, but I have rambled long enough.

To "Colombo" it for a second...

One more thing:

I mentioned "run-off" mistakes. Yeah, I made that up. I'm trying to start a trend.

To explain, if you didn't get it: it's when you are happily scribing along and your scribing tool takes a turn towards Albuquerque.

It's slight, but it's there.

AAAAAHHHHRRRGGGGHHH

Now when you try to re-scribe THAT'S the path the tool wants to take EVERY SINGLE TIME.

TL;DR?

Jester

Edited by DarkJester
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Man, do I know how to kill a thread or what?

I should change my name to DarkThreadKiller.

And I thought I was a thread killer. Maybe we can crank this one up again. I think it's good to go over this subject regularly, as someone is always discovering a new tool or substance. I've been trying Perfect Plastic Putty (by Deluxe). So far, I like it for filling seams. It goes on easily, and cleans up quickly with water, and makes a neat, smooth seam. But one of the seams on my Meng F-102 kit cross scribed lines, so I might have to deal with them by another means. We'll have to see. I do recommend the Perfect Plastic Putty for filling other seams and patching holes, indentation, etc..

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As an addendum, like it needed one.

I received my UMM SCR-02 (micro) and SCR-01 (Standard) scribing tools in the mail, and used them on some of the panel lines I was scribing/re-scribing and here is what I found.

Wow. Huge Difference in control, and how it works. the lines are cleaner and not as blown-out as with the other scribing tools.

The blade and hook design of the tool makes it easy to create an indentation to follow with the blade then actually scribe with either end.

Both ends are pointy enough to clean out rivet holes.

I also purchased the super fine saw blades. These look like old style double edged razor blades with 3 holes in the center.

the teeth are fine enough to start a scribed line in a panel with or without a line already started. then you can finish with the scribe tool.

I have no affiliation with Unique Master Models, I receive no compensation from them. I'm just telling what I experienced using their tools.

I can recommend the scribing tool, big time.

Shipping was about 6 bucks for me.

I believe it was flat rate USPS.

The tools are 12.99 ea.

So they are a little on the pricey side.

For both with shipping it was about 32 Georges.

I'm going to try to do some pictures <GASP> of lines done with the different tools and how the putty looks.

The F-101B is turning out to be a little "Frankenstein's Monster" looking, but I can buy another one, and use what I have learned.

The next one will be better. Much Better.

Jester.

The Thread Killer

Edited by DarkJester
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