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1/48 Hasegawa F-4E TuAF SEA


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Just to make sure, the pics with Vallejo satin start at my post #137. Chuck's example was from before the satin coat (it still looks somewhat dull due to the oil wash taking away future's sheen). However, even with the pics from post #137 onward, there might be a little too much sheen. Though I see Scott's point too (a lot of in-use USAF phantoms look pretty shiny). I think I will take the middle road and apply a highly thinned Testors Dull coat / Satin coat mix I have. If nothing else, it might give the surface a little more bite for the pencil weathering/chipping.

:doh: DOH! In that case, I totally agree with Scott. Leave it alone! Here's some good examples of a weathered F-4E, some that Scott took, that still show a bit of a shine.

68-0480sharkmouth.jpg

74-1630rescue.jpg

TMP48.jpg

69-0368RamsteinABSept21983ScottRWilson.jpg

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Looking spectacular. :)

The Prismacolor pencils are rather oily for lack of a better word. They won't even mark over a glossy surface. They work ok over flat coats, but I don't like the way they look at all. In photos it can look good, but in person when you get close it's clearly scribbled pencil. It will stay on a flat surface too as long as you don't handle it too much. The real problem for me is they just don't look like metal. They aren't shiny? gloss? enough...they are too flat. My opinion of course YMMV.

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Thank you. I understand what you mean by the scribbled pencil look, I had a similar observation. When I notice that, I gently rub my finger to blend it to the surface which seems to help a little. But that would further make a metallic color look less metallic. I used these pencils on another model and I was happy with them, but the surface was considerably flatter than this one.

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When I was photographing military aircraft years ago I frequently had to shift my position before taking the photo to minimize glare from the sun reflecting off the paint. Dead flat on a model is just wrong in many cases, especially for the SEA camouflages. I've seen some newly painted F-16s that were pretty close to dead flat, though. So as usual, research is necessary.

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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When I was photographing military aircraft years ago I frequently had to shift my position before taking the photo to minimize glare from the sun reflecting off the paint. Dead flat on a model is just wrong in many cases, especially for the SEA camouflages. I've seen some newly painted F-16s that were pretty close to dead flat, though. So as usual, research is necessary.

I've been wrong before when answering from memory, so I went back and looked through a lot of my F-4E and G photos. Most SEA painted jets look pretty close to dead flat, but I found a series that illustrates how it's pretty hard to judge from one or two photos how flat to make your models.

I was stationed at George AFB, California back in 1982 and one day in April I asked if I could go out with the Supervisor of Flying to do some photography. The SOF duty is a task the pilots all take a rotation doing, they sit in a little shack out near the runway and record takeoff (wheels in the air) times, landing times, and monitor the takeoff and landing looking for signs of trouble. They can also assist aircrews in emergencies by reading through tech orders to try to find solutions or procedures to deal with problems.

While I was out with the SOF, a 563 TFS F-4G declared an emergency for a utility hydraulic failure. Whatever part of the system had failed, they were able to get the gear and flaps down with the emergency pneumatic blow-down but the emergency brakes evidently didn't work as the airplane rolled into the departure end barrier still moving fairly fast.

The first photos shows the jet having just stopped with the tail hook engaged with the barrier cable. The plane was rolling backwards a bit and fuel was sloshing out the fuselage tank vent under the rudder. Note how shiny the paint is:

69-7287%20April%2082%20captioned%20Scott%20Wilson_zpsmlt2wgrm.jpg

After the engines were shut down and the crew got out, AR (Aircraft Recovery) disengaged the barrier cable, tied the hook up off the ground, and began to tow the airplane off the runway. I then took this second photo, note how flat the paint now looks:

69-7287b%20April%2082%20captionedScott%20Wilson_zpseebmfk3w.jpg

I had taken a photo of this same airplane taxiing out in February, two months before the above photos. There was hardly time for the paint to have changed its sheen noticeably before I took those two photos, notice how flat it appears in this shot:

69-7287%20Feb%2082%20captioned%20Scott%20Wilson_zpsw9vrzhic.jpg

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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And to further complicate matters, sometimes each color had its own degree of sheen. Here's a photo of 69-0249 I took at Decimommannu AB, Italy just to illustrate this:

That is why in my opinion when building a scale model - especially when it is intended for an exhibition/contest - we should base our work on specific photos.

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Loving this build!

Thank you! The model is on its legs now, hopefully the end is near.

69-7287%20Feb%2082%20captioned%20Scott%20Wilson_zpsw9vrzhic.jpg

In this picture, are those RBF tags on the inboard pylon? If so, are they removed before takeoff? Looks to me it's too late for that.

Edited by Janissary
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Thank you! The model is on its legs now, hopefully the end is near.

69-7287%20Feb%2082%20captioned%20Scott%20Wilson_zpsw9vrzhic.jpg

In this picture, are those RBF tags on the inboard pylon? If so, are they removed before takeoff? Looks to me it's too late for that.

Yes, those are Remove Before Flight flags. During both peacetime or wartime, the jets would taxi out with all weapons safed by appropriate pins or other devices installed. They'd go to an area near the end of the runway where the jets parked and were chocked. One crew looked the plane over for loose panels, cut tires, hydraulic leaks et cetera, and an arming crew followed to arm the weapons by pulling all the safety devices. Then chocks were pulled and the jet taxiied on to the runway and took off.

I took this photo as the jet was turning off the ramp onto a taxiway leading to the arming area, by no means was it too late to pull the RBF flags and safety devices. It was a cold and windy day so they were taxiing with the canopies closed.

The only exceptions to jets stopping at the arming area for end of runway checks and arming if they needed it were alert aircraft. Those already had the safeties removed while sitting on alert except for the dome covers on the AIM-9s which had to be in place during engine start to prevent damage to the seekers. The dome covers were pulled as soon as the engines had been started while other ground crew were closing the starter doors.

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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Scott correct me if I am wrong but for jet aircraft, is the paint applied still CARC based like other military vehicles? I know that helicopters in the Army use CARC based paint, the same as armored vehicles. Whatever the case may be in the end it doe not matter in my opinion if there is a gloss sheen to the scale model or not. How many people here go to Air Shows? Ever watched the fighter jets through a pair of bino's? Most of the time you will still see glint off of the a/c in the distance and it isn't from the canopy. Metal is metal and it will reflect sunlight at one point or another.

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Scott correct me if I am wrong but for jet aircraft, is the paint applied still CARC based like other military vehicles? I know that helicopters in the Army use CARC based paint, the same as armored vehicles. Whatever the case may be in the end it doe not matter in my opinion if there is a gloss sheen to the scale model or not. How many people here go to Air Shows? Ever watched the fighter jets through a pair of bino's? Most of the time you will still see glint off of the a/c in the distance and it isn't from the canopy. Metal is metal and it will reflect sunlight at one point or another.

I have no idea of what "CARC based" is. When I worked for a firetruck company we painted a bunch of trucks for the Army, and they called the color "CARC green." I was understanding CARC was the acronym for some Army command, not the paint. Could be I was wrong.

As far as I know the USAF planes I worked on were all painted polyurethane enamel.

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I have no idea of what "CARC based" is. When I worked for a firetruck company we painted a bunch of trucks for the Army, and they called the color "CARC green." I was understanding CARC was the acronym for some Army command, not the paint. Could be I was wrong.

As far as I know the USAF planes I worked on were all painted polyurethane enamel.

I looked it up, CARC is indeed a type of paint, the letters stand for Chemical Agent Resistant Coating. I don't think that existed in the early 80s, but I was a mere avionics tech, I didn't get involved with painting the jets

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CARC (Chemical Agent Resistant Coating) is a paint used on military vehicles to make metal surfaces highly resistant to corrosion and penetration of chemical agents.

Btw Janissary sorry for hi jacking your build thread, fantastic phantom!

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The metal pitot tube came along with the Hobbydecal dry transfer set I have. After attaching and blending it to the radome, I masked the forward part with a piece of stretched electrical wire insulation and painted it with a mix of MM flat black and rust.

IMG_7732.JPG

Once dry, I rubbed in some lead pencil dust to get the color and reflection I see in some of the photos.

IMG_7733.JPG

Here is it after the masks are removed and some light silver chipping applied to the seal. I don't think these parts are metallic, but I did the chipping to emphasize the transition from one section to the other (so not really chipping :))

IMG_7734.JPG

I also tried to make the little protruding rods around the parachute area.

IMG_7737.JPG

I airbrushed highly thinned flat black and dark brown colors to simulate exhaust soot around the metallic areas and the stabs.

IMG_7741.JPG

Edited by Janissary
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Most of the subassemblies are slowly coming together.

IMG_7742.JPG

I used a wine bottle foil (it's pretty thick but the layers can be separated easily) to make the intake cover handles. For this type of covers, the handles are not accurate (I only saw them for the pillow type plugs) but I was determined to make them anyway! Also, I read somewhere that the 82s on a TER cannot be hung on the same side of a winder, so I tried to follow the bit of info. In my mind, it's a show bird anyway so the loadout is completely fictitious! Also, not very visible but I buffed up the gun muzzle tip with lead pencil dust and chipped it ever so slightly.

IMG_7743.JPG

More dirt and color variation around the metallic areas and the stabs. Also, I used Tamiya pastels to simulate the leaky hinges around the rudder and flaps.

IMG_7744.JPG

IMG_7746.JPG

The AoA probe also came with the Hobbydecal dry transfers. I was trying to capture that with the following photo, only the realize the ugly silvering!

IMG_7747.JPG

Edited by Janissary
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The metal pitot tube came along with the Hobbydecal dry transfer set I have. After attaching and blending it to the radome, I masked the forward part with a piece of stretched electrical wire insulation and painted it with a mix of MM flat black and rust.

IMG_7732.JPG

Once dry, I rubbed in some lead pencil dust to get the color and reflection I see in some of the photos.

IMG_7733.JPG

Here is it after the masks are removed and some light silver chipping applied to the seal. I don't think these parts are metallic, but I did the chipping to emphasize the transition from one section to the other (so not really chipping :)/>/>/>)

IMG_7734.JPG

The radome is made of fiberglass, and the black radomes were coated in Neoprene rubber. Most F-4Es and Gs had an "anti-erosion boot" also made of Neoprene glued onto the front. Neoprene changes from glossy black to flat dark gray as it ages and weathers. Depending on the relative ages of the Neoprene coating versus the age of the boot, the boot might be blacker and glossier or flatter and maybe grayer than the radome. Usually the boot was newer, so blacker and glossier. Often there was a smear of glue at the rear of the boot. There was no metal involved.

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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The best F-4 I have ever seen.Great work.

Thank you so much Dragan for your kind words. I cannot view my model that way since I know so many craftsmanship and accuracy issues with it, but I certainly appreciate your feedback. I'll tell my wife, who thinks it looks like any other model I've built with nothing particularly 'exciting' about it. She keeps telling me to build props and I go 'say waaaaa?'

The radome is made of fiberglass, and the black radomes were coated in Neoprene rubber. Most F-4Es and Gs had an "anti-erosion boot" also made of Neoprene glued onto the front. Neoprene changes from glossy black to flat dark gray as it ages and weathers. Depending on the relative ages of the Neoprene coating versus the age of the boot, the boot might be blacker and glossier or flatter and maybe grayer than the radome. Usually the boot was newer, so blacker and glossier. Often there was a smear of glue at the rear of the boot. There was no metal involved.

Thank you Scott, another useful piece of information that leaves no ambiguity. :thumbsup:

Edited by Janissary
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Thank you Scott, another useful piece of information that leaves no ambiguity. :thumbsup:/>

I wrote that just after I got to work at 5am, could be I'm remembering wrong about the boot usually being glossier than the radome. It might have been the other way around. It's been a long time since I worked on Phantoms and I am finding I occasionally mis-remember some things. I suggest checking some photos and verify the radomes, see which is flatter and which glossier.

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