11bee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Just a year ago I was lamenting the end of the cold war on this forum. Looks like it's all coming back. http://time.com/3523644/swedens-military-scours-for-possible-russian-submarine-in-its-waters/ Link to post Share on other sites
STEN8 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Where is Whitaker Walt when we need him? Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 " E Mergen cy!! , Every body to GIT frum strit!! " ( Or fijord, as the case may be, nyet? ) Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Just a year ago I was lamenting the end of the cold war on this forum. Looks like it's all coming back. I never understood that longing for the bad old days... Link to post Share on other sites
Les / Creative Edge Photo Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Just a year ago I was lamenting the end of the cold war on this forum. Looks like it's all coming back. http://time.com/3523644/swedens-military-scours-for-possible-russian-submarine-in-its-waters/ The difference is that the Russians unlike the former Soviets are not Red Commies. Putin is as as selfish, myopic and greedy as well as corrupted and his inner circle as cronyistic as any other western nations' peers including that of the USA. Today it's not Us vs Them in a Bi-polar, ideological divide, but one of a top dog being the USA seeing that other near top dogs are nipping at its proverbial heels and these other growing more influential nations are not just going to sit on their collective hands and take it forever. The powers inside the halls and in the dirty back rooms of the USA don't like this fact but they better get use to it. "Times they are a changin" was a Dylan phrase and that folks is true. The world is going to be a very different place in all aspects and the USA will not be able to sit all alone on the mountain top so to speak. I'm not saying it's going to be better nor worse. I'm not defending the likes of Putin's Russia and the not so Commie Chinese (there is probably more pure and wrank capitalism in China today than in the USA or EU.) I'm not even saying other powers will be better in the likes of India, Brazil, and the haggard EU as it's a basket case union anyways. But this ain't the 1950's - 60's - 70's nor 80's with the simple Us vs the Reds paradigm. It is also not the mostly omni-polar world of the 90's and 2000's. Best course for all is to manage the new paradigm and not go around just knocking over others' proverbial apple carts. The Russians are not coming but the US led Nato cronies have been and are coming closer to Russia's door step and Russia right, wrong or indifferent does not like it. Same goes with what's happening to China. The establishment of the BRICS is a direct counter punch to the former omni-polar led world that was US centric. Again I'm not saying it's better nor worse but we all better get on with it and smell the roses as again things are changing. Link to post Share on other sites
Sarathi S. Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 All I say about this is: Can we bring the Tomcat back now? Pweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease? Link to post Share on other sites
boom175 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Boy you hate america dont ya Les! Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) The difference is that the Russians unlike the former Soviets are not Red Commies. Putin is as as selfish, myopic and greedy as well as corrupted and his inner circle as cronyistic as any other western nations' peers including that of the USA. That's Russia's line, "We're just doing what other countries are doing or have done." The difference is that we know it was wrong and we don't do that any more. WTF is Russia thinking crushing its own people so it can attempt military conquest? The only way anyone could buy the argument that Russia only does what other counties have done is when you make a direct connection to Nazi Germany. Putin is exactly as selfish, myopic and greedy as well as corrupted and his inner circle as cronyistic as Adolf Hitler, not the USA. But hey, you have to be good at something, am I right? Edited October 21, 2014 by Exhausted Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The Cold War never ended. Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 I never understood that longing for the bad old days... :sunrevolves:/> It's funny but I guess you would have been there to get it. At the height of the cold war I would have been a 19-year old E-nothing sitting in a fighting position in West Germany with a LAW or two, in MOPP-4, waiting to fend off hordes of commie T-64's and BMP's. My guess is that if the balloon went up, it would have sucked. Bad. However, the one thing I would not have had to ponder was whether the fight was worth fightin'. Today, given our current war(s), I'm not sure a deployed E-nothing has the same luxury. Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yeah, there's some good old cold war vibes over here now :P The media is squeezing as much as they can from the event and stiring up as much fear ad possible. It ain't a sub hunt tho....it's an "intelligence gathering mission"...well I suppose that's another way if saying: we know there's a sub there but we can't do anything about it since we sliced our subhunting capability a long time ago because of budget cuts... Anyways things are as they are and Russia wants to be a player again, they don't like the NATO expansion, they've made that aabundantly clear and they've slowly regained their military composure over a long time now. It's a reality and we have to adapt.... Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The Cold War never ended. Tactical pause! Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Boy you hate america dont ya Les! Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 "Andrei, you've lost another submarine?" Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) However, the one thing I would not have had to ponder was whether the fight was worth fightin'. you would probably be too dead to ponder. Today, given our current war(s), I'm not sure a deployed E-nothing has the same luxury. I don't think E-nothings have really had a warm fuzzy feeling the last 60 years or so, but who's counting? The difference is that the Russians unlike the former Soviets are not Red Commies. Putin is as as selfish, myopic and greedy as well as corrupted and his inner circle as cronyistic as any other western nations' peers including that of the USA. So in other words just like the Red Commies of old? Spoiler Alert, the ruling class of the USSR despite all the hype was the same way and Famously so. The Russians are not coming but the US led Nato cronies have been and are coming closer to Russia's door step I wonder why those new NATO nations would hold a grudge against Russia? Can you think of anything? Boy you hate america dont ya Les! LOLed Edited October 21, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 So, can we stop being irrationally afraid of ISIS and ebola and switch that irrationality over to Russians? Yay! Link to post Share on other sites
Fly-n-hi Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) The difference is that the Russians unlike the former Soviets are not Red Commies. Putin is as as selfish, myopic and greedy as well as corrupted and his inner circle as cronyistic as any other western nations' peers including that of the USA. Today it's not Us vs Them in a Bi-polar, ideological divide, but one of a top dog being the USA seeing that other near top dogs are nipping at its proverbial heels and these other growing more influential nations are not just going to sit on their collective hands and take it forever. The powers inside the halls and in the dirty back rooms of the USA don't like this fact but they better get use to it. "Times they are a changin" was a Dylan phrase and that folks is true. The world is going to be a very different place in all aspects and the USA will not be able to sit all alone on the mountain top so to speak. You need to be a little more careful who you are pointing fingers at. First of all, the Europeans were carving up, murdering, subjugating, enslaving and stealing from the world more than 2200 years before the US even existed. The US Government is just picking up where the European governments left off. And the Europeans would still be doing it if they weren't so dependent on the US after WWII (and they will be doing it again as soon as they get a chance). Secondly, the governments of the nations, not the average citizens, are making these terrible decisions so quit blaming "the US." I have nothing to do with anything they do and I want them to stop, too. The average person in Germany didn't want to go to war in 1939, either.Our Constitution was designed to limit the power of the government so that our government couldn't do these exact things. The problem is that the citizens in the US have been duped into believing that European style government is a better system. And as a result they have given too much power back to the government...and the results speak for themselves. If you want to say the US citizens are idiots for buying this non sense and letting this happen then I will agree with you. I'm not saying it's going to be better nor worse. I'm not defending the likes of Putin's Russia and the not so Commie Chinese (there is probably more pure and wrank capitalism in China today than in the USA or EU.)This comment makes me wonder if you know what Capitalism is. Here's the definition:an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit rather than by the state. Are you honestly suggesting that the Chinese government doesn't control their economy? And we haven't had true capitalism here in the US for several decades. The US government has had their hand in it since 1913 for sure and it's only gotten worse since then. Once the government gets into it is no longer Capitalism by definition. You're trying to turn Capitalism into a "bad" word because governments have screwed it up? Now you might say "its the Capitalists in the government that are stealing, etc..." That still doesn't mean its a bad system. Just because a few people use the power of the Federal Government to take advantage of Capitalism doesn't make it bad. Its the people who are taking advantage that are bad. The citizens need to throw these people out. But for some reason they'd rather watch TV instead of educating themselves with the not so entertaining politics. But again, this is what happens when our people embrace the European style nanny state government. They just assume somebody else is taking care of it. This is the biggest flaw of the American people. Edited October 21, 2014 by Fly-n-hi Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 So, can we stop being irrationally afraid of ISIS and ebola and switch that irrationality over to Russians? Yay! I like being a "We" it sucks to be "they" like for example "they are under threat from Russia," "they were executed in mass and pushed into a huge grave" "they died of a horrible disease that ravaged their country" so long as it doesn't directly affect you, it really isn't a thing. so any concern or fear is irrational as the boogeyman.* *unless any of these things do affect you. in which case your fear is extremely rational. Link to post Share on other sites
echolmberg Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 " E Mergen cy!! , Every body to GIT frum strit!! " ( Or fijord, as the case may be, nyet? ) They are, of course, Norwegian! Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Are drugs legal in Sweden? P.S. И мы уже здесь. Edited October 22, 2014 by Helmsman Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The difference is that the Russians unlike the former Soviets are not Red Commies. Putin is as as selfish, myopic and greedy as well as corrupted and his inner circle as cronyistic as any other western nations' peers including that of the USA. Today it's not Us vs Them in a Bi-polar, ideological divide, but one of a top dog being the USA seeing that other near top dogs are nipping at its proverbial heels and these other growing more influential nations are not just going to sit on their collective hands and take it forever. The powers inside the halls and in the dirty back rooms of the USA don't like this fact but they better get use to it. "Times they are a changin" was a Dylan phrase and that folks is true. The world is going to be a very different place in all aspects and the USA will not be able to sit all alone on the mountain top so to speak. I'm not saying it's going to be better nor worse. I'm not defending the likes of Putin's Russia and the not so Commie Chinese (there is probably more pure and wrank capitalism in China today than in the USA or EU.) I'm not even saying other powers will be better in the likes of India, Brazil, and the haggard EU as it's a basket case union anyways. But this ain't the 1950's - 60's - 70's nor 80's with the simple Us vs the Reds paradigm. It is also not the mostly omni-polar world of the 90's and 2000's. Best course for all is to manage the new paradigm and not go around just knocking over others' proverbial apple carts. The Russians are not coming but the US led Nato cronies have been and are coming closer to Russia's door step and Russia right, wrong or indifferent does not like it. Same goes with what's happening to China. The establishment of the BRICS is a direct counter punch to the former omni-polar led world that was US centric. Again I'm not saying it's better nor worse but we all better get on with it and smell the roses as again things are changing. folks in Taiwan and Tibet will surely be elated to know they won't have to ever worry about China, and we already know that the folks in Ukraine are just aching to rejoin the Russian Federation. Good lesson on world events gary Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 folks in Taiwan and Tibet will surely be elated to know they won't have to ever worry about China, and we already know that the folks in Ukraine are just aching to rejoin the Russian Federation. Good lesson on world events gary Geez gary he said the "Russians aren't coming" then quoted Bob Dylan as evidence saying that they are coming because "times they are a changin," and the days of US hegemony are numbered why don't you trust the expert contradictory analysis? I ran into a Customs agent a few years back who told me that Weed from British Columbia is some of the best in the world, and I think its time we embraced that after reviewing that post. Link to post Share on other sites
jfmajor60 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I never understood that longing for the bad old days... :sunrevolves:/> I do from the point at least the Soviets where rational people with who we could talk to, unlike the lunatics we face in today's world. Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So, can we stop being irrationally afraid of ISIS and ebola and switch that irrationality over to Russians? Yay! Good one! Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) I do from the point at least the Soviets where rational people with who we could talk to, unlike the lunatics we face in today's world. totes It is odd though because from what I can understand and remember and am told about the cold war those "rational people" were always one button press away from ending the world...? but I guess we forgot that part? Whats even more odd is I actually do subscribe to the fact that both sides were smart enough to avoid nuclear war at all costs even if there was a limited fight, but there are still people who will tell you the world was on a hair trigger and these rational people would end it all the second they were provoked. Good one! I agree, Russia has always been a papertiger ayyyy lmao Edited October 22, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
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