1/32 Trumpeter P-38L Lightning- "Kicked Up A Notch"

[skyhawk174]

Hi Chuck thanks again for bringing out your Hog and it was great chatting with you.

It was really nice to see the A-10 up close after following it for so long on line. Of course up close it is an amazing piece of work or should I say artwork. I was looking at it with my friend and had to tell him about some of the details you put into the kit since he really did not follow the thread here on ARC. He is a 1/72nd guy so does not really see threads like that. I think a little differently in that I normally build 1/48 but I think I can learn from everyone. I am a model knowledge sponge :)

If you recall I was speaking to you about my Trumpeter NAW-10 project and we also talked about some ideas you had with this P-38 you are working on.

Sorry you can't make it to AMMS but maybe we will run into each other again some time in the future.

[chuck540z3]

Hi Chuck thanks again for bringing out your Hog and it was great chatting with you.

It was really nice to see the A-10 up close after following it for so long on line. Of course up close it is an amazing piece of work or should I say artwork. I was looking at it with my friend and had to tell him about some of the details you put into the kit since he really did not follow the thread here on ARC. He is a 1/72nd guy so does not really see threads like that. I think a little differently in that I normally build 1/48 but I think I can learn from everyone. I am a model knowledge sponge :)

If you recall I was speaking to you about my Trumpeter NAW-10 project and we also talked about some ideas you had with this P-38 you are working on.

Sorry you can't make it to AMMS but maybe we will run into each other again some time in the future.

Hi Chris,

Yes, I definitely remember you, so now I can place "Chris" with "shyhawk174". Thanks for the tip on tire treads that should always be dirty and a bit grey, even for a hanger queen like this build is supposed to be. Early in the show I saw you and "Scooby" (Gary) giving my A-10 the once over and I was a bit nervous, because you are both contest judges much of the time. Apparently I passed the test, so thanks for the kind comments.

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited June 9, 2015 by chuck540z3

[skyhawk174]

Hi Chris,

Yes, I definitely remember you, so now I can place "Chris" with "shyhawk174". Thanks for the tip on tire treads that should always be dirty and a bit grey, even for a hanger queen like this build is supposed to be. Early in the show I saw you and "Scooby" (Gary) giving my A-10 the once over and I was a bit nervous, because you are both contest judges much of the time. Apparently I passed the test, so thanks for the kind comments.

Cheers,

Chuck

You are most welcome for the tip but to be honest you should be giving the lessons :)

As for the judging, yeah Gary and I did judge the category. We still had to look at all of the entries and go over them all. Some very good modelling there but your entry was still head and shoulders above though. Basics always count even with super detail. So no seams, no silvering, no glue marks etc. gets you pretty far in contests I think.

[AX 365]

Hiya Chuck.

The only sound better than those four Merlins being run up is when you hear them, in the air, making a pass at an airshow. Still, it's hard to beat seeing a Lanc with the engines running.

Nice to see you enjoying some great summer weather out there buddy. Hopefully all is well and you're making a bit of progress on your Lightning. I know how the mojo wanes when the top down weather arrives.

Well done with the Hog.

Take care.

Mike

[chuck540z3]

June 19/15

Finally, a real modeling update after 3 months, but before I show you anything more, I want to introduce a neat new scribing tool that my friend Mike O’Hare ("MoFo" here at ARC) found for me. This scriber is actually called a “line chisel”, because it comes with a variety of replacement blades, including actual chisel heads that fit in a “G Tool” handle. These line chisels come in super thin widths of 0.1 mm right up to 0.3 mm, which will cover just about all scribing tasks. As you can see in the pic below, they are heat treated and super hard as well as super sharp. After using them for several days now, I have found that for new panel lines and for scribing tiny ones, they can’t be beat. I have every scriber known to man I think, including the UMM one, and no scriber is as sharp as these chisels. For regular panel line re-scribing, I still like my trusty Trumpeter one the best. While not as sharp, it tends to stay in the groove easier and not want to cut its own path, like these tiny chisels tend to do. The best combination for a newly scribed panel line is to use the line chisel first to establish where the panel line will go, then use the Trumpeter one to clean out the groove and smooth the edges of the panel line.

These items were purchased from Hobby Link Japan, but they can also be found at Best from Japan:

Best From Japan

As mentioned many times above, the Trumpeter plastic is fairly rough and while rivet and panel line detail is plentiful, it is inconsistent. Some panel lines are fairly deep, while others almost disappear and much of the rivet detail is faded or missing. For the completed booms I rescribed every panel line and re-punched every rivet with a needle in a pin vice, so I thought I may as well do the rest of the model the same way. What a big job! What you see in the pics below represents about 20-25 hours of work. Slow, tedious and boring work, but if I want a super clean Bare Metal Finish, I have no choice. The goal here is to kick the Trumpeter parts up close to Tamiya level of detail, much as I kicked my Trumpeter A-10 garbage parts up to Revell level in my last build.

Here is the sequence of how I did it:

1) Clean up the parts of all sprue marks and flash

2) Deepen shallow panel lines and rivets so that you will still detect them after sanding

3) Sand the entire surface with 800-1000 grit sandpaper until the surface is super smooth

4) Re-scribe every panel line and add missing ones

5) Same for the rivets. With a needle in a pin vice, re-punch every one and widen the Dzus fasteners with a riveting tool

6) Re-sand with 1000 grit sandpaper. For panel line mistakes, use 400 grit sandpaper followed by 1000 grit

7) Apply Tamiya Black panel line wash to all the panel lines and rivets. This process also cleans out all the sanding dust from same

8) The above wash will reveal a multitude of panel line boo-boos and roughly sanded plastic. Repair as required

9) Apply additional panel line wash to check for errors and repair if necessary

So now the pics that will tell the whole story and you can use a reference for panel line and rivet detail- right or wrong- with a few errors yet to be fixed. One thing I might add is that I installed the supercharger shroud now rather than later as per instructions, because it is fairly crude, requires lots of cleanup and it fits the upper wing poorly. It took a lot of work with CA glue to close many gaps and then re-scribe panel lines, which would be very hard to do later after assembly of the main booms and wing. I will tuck the super charger underneath the wing assembly instead at the appropriate time.

Remember how the trailing edge of this wing was all gibbled in the very first post of this thread? Looks OK now!

Supercharger shroud could use a little more sanding on the near edge

One thing I modified is the landing light shroud on the front of the left wing. It is raised WAY too high in the kit and looks unrealistic, so I sanded it down, almost flush to the wing, top and bottom.

Thanks for your continued interest and patience in this slow build.

Chuck

[Doctorgaz]

[SERNAK]

You have done a very nice job with those rivets Chuck though, I would like to ask you if it would be better if you had used for instance Archer's rivet-decals, that give an embossed effect.

[chuck540z3]

You have done a very nice job with those rivets Chuck though, I would like to ask you if it would be better if you had used for instance Archer's rivet-decals, that give an embossed effect.

Aaahh, the old raised vs. recessed rivet debate lives on! Here's my view on the subject, which of course is just my opinion.

I used Archer rivets extensively on my A-10 build for two reasons:

1) The A-10 has lots of BIG raised rivets/fasteners

2) I was replacing raised rivets that were sanded off during construction

On the P-38, most of the rivets are flush, but there are a few big raised ones just forward of the rear stabilizers on the boom. I already plan on using Archer rivets for that area, or any other areas you guys might point out to me that have the same large and raised fasteners.

Everybody knows that the other fasteners all over the aircraft should be flush, or mostly flush- and very few of them would actually be recessed like the needle holes I have made. When you look at a real aircraft, you can see the fasteners from a distance- even many small ones- so how do you replicate that fine detail on plastic? No amount of fine plastic molding is going to replicate that and even if you got close, subsequent sanding and other construction processes would eliminate some of it, so you still need a method of replacing same. Recessed rivet holes give you the visual pattern of the fasteners and if you want to, using a dark wash like I have will really make them show up even more. I will also use more wash on panel lines that are very obvious, like the ones with Dzus fasteners, while other panel lines that are more subtle will have little or no wash applied.

Other than the fact I don't plan on weathering this aircraft as much as my P-51D build, here is the overall rivet look I'm looking for:

The A-10 is a completely different animal, so I used a combination of raised rivets and recessed pin marks:

I hope this explains my riveting style.

Chuck

Edited June 19, 2015 by chuck540z3

[Squizzy 78]

Chuck,

You are the master of plastic model kits! The work you're doing on your current project is amazing, and to look at the work on the a-10c and the mustang, is mind blowing.

I've being watching your posts for a long time, reading about your techniques and attempting to replicate it in my own models. Although I've improved my modelling from your knowledge, seeing your work shows me how much I've got to learn! Can't wait to see more of your amazing work .

[chukw]

What more can I add, Chuck- your modeling skills are amazing! B)

[chuck540z3]

Chuck,

You are the master of plastic model kits! The work you're doing on your current project is amazing, and to look at the work on the a-10c and the mustang, is mind blowing.

I've being watching your posts for a long time, reading about your techniques and attempting to replicate it in my own models. Although I've improved my modelling from your knowledge, seeing your work shows me how much I've got to learn! Can't wait to see more of your amazing work .

Thank you very much sir- and you too chuk!

I've been modelling for about 7 1/2 years. I don't count the few years I played with plastic when I was a kid, but the interest in this hobby has always been there. The really cool thing I enjoy about modelling is that you grow and grow each year and your skills improve along the way. I'm still learning and I still struggle with many tasks and wonder if I'll ever get any better with certain techniques. My point is, you will learn too and in no time, you will look back at what you thought was tricky now and find that it is now routine. Keep at it!

[Marcel111]

So how did the A-10 do at the contest? Pretty darn good if I do say so myself. Gold in the above category and a few extra special awards. The GOMBS award has a great pic of the late Rick Chin next to a real A-10. How neat is that!

Chuck, congratulations... but was there ever any doubt ;)

Welcome back, now finish this build off so you can get stuck into a jet again!

Marcel

[Check Six]

chuck540z3

January 5/15

Here's a comparison pic of the Master Details supercharger vs. the kit part before clean up. The resin part is nicely detailed and definitely worth the investment in my opinion. Although most restored P-38's don't have superchargers any more, nothing says "P-38" more to me than this gizmo behind the engine, so it's going to stay.

Just got caught up with your build, Chuck.

Beautiful work indeed !

BTW; I own part of a real P-38 Lightening supercharger .

The exhaust turbine and wastegate outlet section; as depicted in the model part above.

All made of stainless steel.

[chuck540z3]

Thanks Marcel. I'm not sure what my next model will be, but I have all the parts and decals for an Israeli F-15E "Ra'am". That might be a fun project.

Hey Check Six, I'd love to see some pics of that supercharger assembly. You can never have enough reference pics!

June 25/15

A small update. Very small, but nonetheless important if you want your P-38 to look both accurate and well finished.

Jerry Rutman pointed out to me a few months ago that just in front of the rear tail are a bunch of raised rivets. Most of the fasteners and rivets on the P-38 are flush, but these are very raised and plentiful. Here is how the tail looked before, with recessed rivet marks as per the kit markings.

After filling the holes, I applied a double row pattern of Archer decal rivets as per reference pics. I tried to get the rivets to the rear of the panel line staggered while the ones at the front are roughly parallel, just like the real deal. This only worked about half of the way around, due to differential circumference front to back. Oh well, only I will really notice after painting. After using Microsol to get the decal film to settle down, I applied a thin coat of Future to seal them in.

I also did some paint preparation. Under the wing at the rear where the flaps are parked, the inner detail should be interior or chromate green. Once the rear flaps and ailerons are installed, this will be very difficult to paint, so I did sort of a primer coat now before the wings get glued together. I must point out that this inner detail is wrong and there should be 3 segments instead of 4 as molded on the kit wing. The Eduard PE kit has replacements that have 3 segments and are much more accurate, but you need to grind down the plastic before gluing on the brass parts. This part of the wing is very thin already, so to do so would be very time consuming and a delicate operation to not erode through the plastic too deeply. I already know that the rear flaps will be in the upright position, which is typical and it also hides this detail completely, so I punted the ball and decided not to bother. Modeling can be difficult enough without creating extra work for yourself that you’ll never see.

I also painted the insides of where the superchargers will be placed with gloss black lacquer. I might leave it black to hide interior details I don’t want to see and to frame the metallic superchargers, or maybe paint it aluminum later like the rest of the aircraft. Either way, I need a gloss black base to begin with in both circumstances.

The inner lip of flaps and ailerons on the bottom wing parts get the same paint preparation.

I don’t have to worry about black over-spray on the top of the wing, because everything will be painted with this same black paint eventually. By leaving it as is, I eliminate any harsh borders between paint colors.

The bottom fuselage, however, is another story. I want to paint the interior of the front gear well lip green, which I don’t want on the future metallic surfaces, so I masked everything off before painting.

Next steps will be to glue the wings together with the lower fuselage, front gear well, 4 rear flaps and 2 ailerons. This will definitely be tricky!

Thanks for your continued interest in this build.

Chuck

[nicholassagan]

Every update counts. All the little painting details help it on its way to a masterpiece.

[CorsairMan]

You have completely inspired me to kick start my stalled b-17.... that model was bogging me down with the rivets and panel lines (I had to destroy a number of them getting this fuselage together!) But seeing your results up close and all it takes is some patience (and some skill) then dammit.... I am back in.

Thanks man.

[Marcel111]

I'm not sure what my next model will be, but I have all the parts and decals for an Israeli F-15E "Ra'am". That might be a fun project.

Doing the I would be awesome... you have my full support

Beautiful work on the P-38, the riveting is amazing.

Marcel

[chuck540z3]

Thanks guys!

Question: For those of you who have made this kit, is it necessary to reinforce the wings before assembly? I have seen several builds that do so, but I think the wings will be strong enough without any modification. What am I missing here?

Edited June 28, 2015 by chuck540z3

[chuck540z3]

Well boys, I took the advice of a modeler over at LSP and dry fit the wings and booms together to see what the problem might be and how to fix it. NOW I know why modelers reinforce the wings! It's not a strength thing as much as a dihedral error if you don't, which also causes wheel alignment issues with the booms. Here's a pic of the right wing from the front. Note the alignment issues of the wing and landing gear. BTW, I have good reference drawings of the front of the P-38, which shows that the inner wing and outer wing are roughly on the same plane, not bent at the booms.

On the right wing, there is a nasty gap on the inner side of the boom....

On the left wing, much the same.

But this time the big gap is on the outboard side of the boom.

The fit on top is really quite good, so no issues there.

So, here's the plan, much like other modelers have done with this kit already:

1) Reinforce the upper wing to "pin" the dihedral correctly

2) After gluing on the lower wings, glue the booms into place, BUT make sure the wheel alignment is also correct on each side

3) Repair the gaps as required, which should be even bigger on both sides of the boom than the pics above

Cheers,

Chuck

[Youngtiger1]

Chuck, I see the issue you are addressing with those outer wings and I know you the one guy who can fix it will. So, i like your plan and can't wait to see it all fixed.

[A-10 LOADER]

You got this Chuck, this will be an easy fix for you. I'm not a prop guy but, I am a big fan of your amazing abilities, great work so far.

Steve

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

An excellent description of the Dihedral issue with pictures to show just how much of an issue it is. And your corrective plan should be quite effective. Just one question, what will you be using to "pin" the correct dihedral to the upper wings?

Joel

[chuck540z3]

Chuck,

An excellent description of the Dihedral issue with pictures to show just how much of an issue it is. And your corrective plan should be quite effective. Just one question, what will you be using to "pin" the correct dihedral to the upper wings?

Joel

Hi Joel. The answer is, plastic CHOPSTICKS! I did the deed last night and I think it worked very well. I'm off for a few days, so I'll be sure to document how effective this is in about a week. I also have a novel gluing tip, which I don't recall anybody else using before.

Cheers,

Chuck

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

Looking forward to seeing your fix, as well as your new gluing technique. Glad to see that you're modeling even though it's summer time up North.

Joel

[chuck540z3]

July 7, 2015

As modelers we sometimes wish we had done certain things ahead of time, because installing or changing parts later can be very difficult, if not impossible without making a mess. This is the case with the navigation lights, which are tiny bits of clear plastic that are supposed to fit in small holes in the wings and rear vertical stabilizers. The kit parts have a hole for these lights alright (Parts # K-12), but they have a large raised lip around where the light is supposed to go and the hole isn’t nearly big enough. This thin lip is way too big for scale and if you can’t see it from 16 feet away on the real deal, you shouldn’t be able to see it from 6 inches away at 1/32 scale either.

The solution for both problems is to sand the lip off completely and carefully widen the hole, BEFORE the wing halves are glued together. Here’s a pic of the lower wing halves, with the unaltered port side on the right and the corrected starboard wing with navigation light dry fitted on the left. This pic also shows the tiny lights on the very thick clear sprue at the top. Getting these lights off the sprue cleanly without losing one or two is VERY difficult!

Here’s a pic of the upper starboard wing tip, unaltered. There’s no way in heck that light will fit in there.

With lip sanded off and hole widened with a #11 knife tip and thin round file, the light fit is much better and will now be a “drop in” at the end of the build.

Now I wish I had done the same thing to the vertical stabilizers before gluing them together, but if you sand and trim the hole carefully, you get the same effect.

Now back to those crooked wings, which sag at the booms. As many other modelers have done on this kit, I reinforced the wings with a brace. Some have used metal parts and others styrene, but I thought the perfect solution might be ordinary plastic chopsticks. The chopsticks I used are light and flat on one side, but they are quite strong and are flexible. They were easily cut and sanded down at the tips to fit, much like ordinary resin parts.

To glue them to the upper wings, I didn’t use CA glue, because it might crack under flexing stress and I didn’t use epoxy glue either. I used ordinary “GOOP” for household use, which is a very strong but still flexible adhesive and sealer that is clear. It takes longer than epoxy cement to dry and cure (up to 72 hours), but the results are exactly what I need. GOOP “sticks like snot to an oven door”, so these chopsticks aren’t going anywhere and the wings will be allowed to flex a bit when I install the booms. Note that I sprayed the chopsticks black underneath the superchargers, so that they can’t be seen later from the top through the thin gaps on either side of the supercharger.

Another view from the front, where the dihedral of the wing now looks straight and correct:

AFTER:

BEFORE:

The dry fit of the wings earlier gave me my first opportunity to calculate how much lead I will need in the engines and the nose to keep this bird from being a tail sitter. The answer is, a LOT, so I can’t think of anything better to glue the lead pieces securely than more GOOP. I squeezed some of it into the engines, which I left open at the top, then placed the lead pieces on top, followed by more GOOP to create a solid mass that won’t ever move.

You may have noticed in the above pics that I already installed the Masterdetails resin superchargers into the upper wing. Although there are no instructions for these parts, they fit nice and snug from underneath, but are a very hard to install from above, as with the kit parts. Further, they can be glued from underneath so that you don’t see any glue marks. Also recall that I painted the sides of around the superchargers black earlier, which would also be scratched if the superchargers were installed from the top.

Before painting the superchargers, I checked many, many reference pics. Wartime superchargers are generally quite rough looking with lots of rust and staining, while brand new ones are almost entirely clean steel. My hanger queen subject has them painted flat black to the rear collar, then a combination of steel and black. I left mine all steel at the rear, because I wanted to show off the fine features of the Masterdetails resin- and I just like it that way!

Next up, the wing halves get glued together along with the flaps and ailerons, followed by the lower fuselage in the middle. The booms will go on last, which I already know will give me fits as I strive to keep the landing gear straight. I HATE kits where the landing gear must be installed early! The painted parts scratch during construction and you can’t alter the gear alignment without a struggle. We’ll see.

Thanks for checking in.

Chuck