1/32 Trumpeter P-38L Lightning- "Kicked Up A Notch"

[Joel_W]

For what it's worth. I just recently started coating the windscreen and canopy with Pledge/Future, and it makes a tremendous difference. The other option of polishing is something I rather not do unless I have to, as clear parts from any kind of repeated pressure sometimes just crack if there was the slightest casting flaw or at the sprue removal points. Once dry, masking with strips of Tamiya tape is my preferred way.

Since the 1970s I've attached windscreens and canopies with every type of glue known to modelers. Tamiya Extra thin is by far the easiest and surest way to glue on clear parts. Not once have I ever had any fogging, nor glue running where I didn't want it to go.

Joel

[chuck540z3]

Ok...experiment started. Canopy took his Future bath and is now curing. I will post the result in a couple of days.

I'm in for that experiment too with an old A-10 canopy. This should be fun. I have no doubt you are right, but I'd like to see it with own eyes as well. :thumbsup:/>/>/>

For what it's worth. I just recently started coating the windscreen and canopy with Pledge/Future, and it makes a tremendous difference. The other option of polishing is something I rather not do unless I have to, as clear parts from any kind of repeated pressure sometimes just crack if there was the slightest casting flaw or at the sprue removal points. Once dry, masking with strips of Tamiya tape is my preferred way.

Joel

Hey Joel, I should have clarified why I do or do not use Future on my canopies. I have used Future on them many, many times, but I find the super shiny look to be a little unrealistic. Here's a couple of recent builds without Future- and they all had seam lines or flaws to fix. They are glassy without looking "thick", which Future can sometimes do. Anyway, I'm not knocking anyone for using Future because I know it works, but it's just a personal preference of mine not to when I can.

Edited January 4, 2015 by chuck540z3

[clioguy]

Chuck, what compound / materials / method do you use to polish canopies without future?

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

You point is well taken. And those canopies look fantastic. Both are 1/32 scale, so they're thicker and therefore more resistant to cracking then either 1/72 or 1/48 scale, which is another issue. Still, I'm going to try your system on my next build after my 1/48 scale F-15C with the Novus polishing system.

Joel

[chuck540z3]

Chuck, what compound / materials / method do you use to polish canopies without future?

Pretty simple actually. After sanding off a seam line with Tamiya 1000 grit sandpaper, I get progressively finer and finer and finer with my abrasives.

After sandpaper are Mr. Laplos polishing cloths, from 4000 grit to 8000 grit. NOTE! 1000 grit Mr. Laplos is MUCH coarser than 1000 grit sandpaper, so be careful. Everybody's "grit" is different...

This is followed by Tamiya polishing compounds, with Coarse followed by Fine.

Then to really add a nice final shine that isn't a thick coat of acrylic coating, I use "Plexus". Plexus was actually made for real aircraft plastic windshields and is now used for just about anything from auto-convertible top plastic windows to motorcycle helmet visors- and of course modeling clear parts....

I guess the main reason I prefer this over a Future coat is that I can get a very clear finish that can be re-buffed and fixed if the clear plastic is damaged with a slight scratch. After a coat of Future, this is much more difficult in my experience.

One last thing that Joel already mentioned. When you polish curved clear parts like canopies, DON'T stress them or they will crack. Stick your finger underneath to support the opposite side and don't flex the plastic. I've wrecked a few canopies not paying attention to this detail and there is no cure but replacement.

Edited January 4, 2015 by chuck540z3

[Budman]

Chuck-

I have some action pics as well as cockpit detail of an L model. The gear is shown in many stances which show no single stance is "correct". The oleos are all over the place. I'll Take some pics and send them to you to be shared with all. As I said on LSP, you are now doing my second most favorite WW II fighter to go with my first (P-51) on which you have already given me an excellent tutorial, although you at the same time set the bar at a height I don't seem to be able to see? I look forward to this build being just as gorgeous as your P-51 and I am ordering my Trumpeter P-38 now so I can struggle in your footsteps. As always, thanks for sharing your huge bag of tricks.

Bud

[nimrod77]

A good way to support your clear parts while your polishing or cutting them is Blu-tak (or equivalent). Pack the under side (concave side) with blu-tak which will support the part as you polish/cut/whatever.

[coneheadff]

A good way to support your clear parts while your polishing or cutting them is Blu-tak (or equivalent). Pack the under side (concave side) with blu-tak which will support the part as you polish/cut/whatever.

That's exactly what I do.

I started using CA on clear parts cause I didn't like the strength of white glue for the PE parts.

Today there is Gator, but I still prefer to have a quick and strong bond for the PE parts.

[chuck540z3]

That is an amazing and very inspiring build Chuck. I'll have a good reference for my P38 Academy 1/48.

Really well done. What kind of a heat gun and liquid sprue did you use ?

I used an ordinary heat gun you can buy at any hardware store, but it has a variable heat setting so that I didn't heat the plastic too much. Liquid sprue was made from bits of the Trumpeter plastic and Tamiya plastic cement.

Chuck-

I have some action pics as well as cockpit detail of an L model. The gear is shown in many stances which show no single stance is "correct". The oleos are all over the place. I'll Take some pics and send them to you to be shared with all. As I said on LSP, you are now doing my second most favorite WW II fighter to go with my first (P-51) on which you have already given me an excellent tutorial, although you at the same time set the bar at a height I don't seem to be able to see? I look forward to this build being just as gorgeous as your P-51 and I am ordering my Trumpeter P-38 now so I can struggle in your footsteps. As always, thanks for sharing your huge bag of tricks.

Bud

Thanks for your confidence Bud. I hope I don't disappoint!

Hi Chuck,

I learned that here on the forum. I saw a couple of guys use it and it worked. The point is to leave the Future cure for a couple of days, until it's completely dry.

I'm at work right now, but I will dip a spare canopy in Future later on and post the result in a couple of days.

Alex

Well, Alex, the jury is IN and you were right and I was WRONG! As I've said many times, I learn something new in modeling almost every day and you just taught me a valuable lesson.

Here's the spare A-10 canopy I had kicking around, so I dipped it in Future forward of the yellow tape.

After letting it dry overnight, which is a pretty short period of drying time and not fully cured, I placed the canopy over a puddle of CA glue and let it do it's thing. I don't need tape to tell you where Future was applied and where it wasn't!

A closer look at the front. I tried REALLY hard to find some fogging, but alas the Future won't let those fume marks stick.

With this lesson learned, I am now going to use Future on all windscreens from now on where there is a risk of CA fume damage. I still won't use it on larger canopies where I can use my polishing methods above, but in tight little areas over an instrument panel, Future seems the best route to go.

Thank you Alex! Also Nimrod77, who basically said that Alex was right all along.

Edited January 4, 2015 by chuck540z3

[Aurora Mark]

Model Master gloss coat (from the rattle can) will protect the plastic just the same. I use this when gluing thin clear plastic down as a gauge face to simulate the look of glass.

Cheers,

Mark.

[coneheadff]

Thank you Alex! Also Nimrod77, who basically said that Alex was right all along. :thumbsup:/>/>

You're more than welcome Chuck!

I learned so much from your builds, it tripled my modeling skills :thumbsup:/

Edited January 4, 2015 by coneheadff

[chuck540z3]

You're more than welcome Chuck!

Hey Alex, based upon an inquiry over at LSP, the question was whether Future was sealing the plastic against the CA glue fumes or the smoother surface did not provide anything for the glue to "bite" into. The answer, I think, is lack of bite or surface available. I polished the canopy with Tamiya Polishing compounds to remove the CA haze. That stuff is bad, because it really sticks! Anyway, after polishing, I repeated the CA exposure exactly the way I did it before and the results are shown below after TWO sessions of CA glue exposure. Note the small fingerprint mark towards the front (left) at the base, while the rear blemish was from direct CA glue exposure from before and no polishing. The fingerprint provides some oil for the glue to attach to, while the smooth surface remains blemish free.

Edited January 5, 2015 by chuck540z3

[chuck540z3]

January 5/15

I’m now back from the holidays and have a minor update. Nothing very big to show in the way of progress in just one day of modeling, but I want to make this a reference for this particular kit for others to use in the future, so every small step is important. I also dedicate this post to “J” from New Zealand who can no longer model any more, but sent me a very nice note about how he now models through others like me. Although his exact message is private, it was very inspiring, so thank you ”J”!

Before I move on, I would like to say something positive about Trumpeter for a change. Trumpeter makes a lot of very popular aircraft subjects nobody else will make and, flaws and all, the plastic they use is really, really good and is easily modified. Some kits may be way more accurate like Tamiya and Academy, but the plastic is sometimes very hard and causes all sorts of trouble to sand or even cut off the sprue. The Trumpeter plastic is quite soft and you can re-scribe it and manipulate it almost any way you want to with little effort. The wing repair with a heat gun and liquid sprue is a good example of that.

The next step is to get the engine and gear well assemblies into the fuselage booms, in this case for the left side. Dry fit each part separately, because they both have their own problems to solve before gluing. As mentioned earlier, I will not be exposing any part of the engine, so the many engine parts including plumbing is, for the most part, not required. The engine is only there to hold the propeller and the lower intake screen in place, as well as provide support for the front of the supercharger. The lower part of the engine assembly not only holds the lower screen, but it holds the two boom halves together in a very strong bond. The upper engine will be installed later on top of this part, full of lead weight. When the lower assembly is placed in the front, the front of the boom halves will not come together.

Other than the usual trimming of stray plastic, the main solution is with the lower grooves in the assembly, which are too shallow for the lower supporting pieces to slide into, causing them to bind. The circular pins on either side also bind on the hole that they slide into, so the solution is to enlarge the hole slightly and deepen the grooves.

The landing gear well fits too tight as well and causes the boom walls to flex and bow on both sides due to internal tension. Here’s a pic of the top still bowed while the bottom has been modified to make the side walls relax.

The reason for the bowing is the gear well tabs fit too tightly into the sidewall grooves. The fix is to open the grooves slightly and trim the insides of the tabs with a #11 knife to relax the fit. Sanding of the tabs also allows them to fit closer to the gear well, closing the sidewall gap.

After modification, the side walls fit much closer together, but there remains a slight gap which is inherent to the boom parts, even without the gear well attached. This should be an easy fix when I glue the gear wells in place permanently, by sliding some thick CA glue down the sides of the gear well from the top, which will hold the gear well and outer wall together.

The lower engine assembly fits nice and tight now too.

This pic shows why you don’t need any engine detail, even at the rear. With the supercharger cowling in place as shown on the wing at the rear, all you see from the top is the supercharger assembly and maybe some bits underneath it if you look real hard, which I will spray flat black so you can’t. It turns out I need to add the supercharger plumbing (Parts H4 & H13) to the engine to provide some support to the front of the supercharger, which in this case will be the Master Details resin (#32037), which will sit directly on the circular Parts G45 and G46. The large lower plumbing, Part H17, is not required.

Here’s a comparison pic of the Master Details supercharger vs. the kit part before clean up. The resin part is nicely detailed and definitely worth the investment in my opinion. Although most restored P-38’s don’t have superchargers any more, nothing says “P-38” more to me than this gizmo behind the engine, so it’s going to stay.

Before I even consider gluing the booms together, I need to do lots of cleanup and a few panel line modifications on just about every part. Here’s one example on the front boom, where there is a panel line that does not exist on the real deal. That plastic vent will be cut off and replaced with Eduard PE brass and I will also re-scribe every real panel line and re-punch every rivet, to sharpen them.

Here's another pic of the wing to show some of the depressions that are on every surface with a large part behind it, which causes depressions in the plastic that need to be filled and sanded. As with the main boom pieces, it’s a lot easier to do this now before assembly than after parts are glued together.

I’m not sure what kind of progress I’ll be showing in the coming weeks, because I’ll be having foot surgery (Third time!!) this week and will be on crutches for 6 weeks. This means that trips to the paint booth will be almost impossible (we’ll see), which will slow up certain assembly stages. For instance, the superchargers need to be painted before installation into the booms, because they fit underneath and I’d like to paint many other parts before installation as well. That’s the bad news. The good news is that after a few days of recovery, I should be modeling like a mad man with nothing to do while I recuperate at home for 2 weeks. We’ll see how it goes- and thanks again for your interest in this build.

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

The AM resin supercharger looks so much better then the kit part it's just a no brainer not to go with the upgrade. I did the same with the 1/48 scale Academy kit. As you said, the super charger is one of the most recognizable features of the P-38. I can't see how they can restore these aircraft and leave them off. Even if they just had them there for looks, it would be such an upgrade to the finished aircraft.

Joel

[AX 365]

Nice progress Chuck. Nice to see that the fix is easy. Always easier to remove excess plastic than to have to build it up. And with 6 weeks on crutches, it would appear you'll have plenty of time to rescribe and repunch the rivet detail.

Good luck, on all fronts, my friend.

Mike

[kike]

Great! so Chuck it means that I can protect windscreens by polishing them too? Thanks guys you all make things easier for us "beginners"

[chuck540z3]

Great! so Chuck it means that I can protect windscreens by polishing them too? Thanks guys you all make things easier for us "beginners"

Well I wouldn't say that my little experiment above was real scientific proof that you can do that, but it sure appears to be so, or at the very least it lowers the risk of fogging.

January 6/15

Thanks guys. I thought I’d throw another small update out there before I’m off for a few days and can’t model. Something I showed earlier which appears to be a major flaw with this kit is the engine is too low in the nacelle and the prop hangs too low as a result. This is not user error (for once!), because the lower engine assembly has no give to it whatsoever and it either fits the large pins on either fuselage boom side or it doesn’t. The upper engine, in turn, sits directly on this assembly. Here’s what it looks like unmodified. Pretty bad, which is why many who have built this kit before me just glued the props onto the nacelle directly, but then they won’t turn and are extra fragile. BTW, I have the Grey Matters props already and am just using the kit ones for alignment purposes.

What’s really weird is that the exhaust manifolds, which you can barely see on the left, should be higher and directly behind those scoop vents.

Another aggravation is the prop spindle itself is sloppy in the hole, so there’s lots of give in all directions, making the prop wobbly. The only solution, I think, is to glue it solid into the engine to remove the movement of the spindle. The prop will still turn on the solid spindle, but maybe not as freely. Big deal, I can live with it!

Here’s what we’re dealing with the upper and lower engine assemblies. The engine on the right has two pins in the oil pan that plug into those two holes on the left. I thought of maybe adding some styrene to the left and drilling new holes, but how much styrene do you need EXACTLY to make the prop align perfectly?

I thought of a much better idea that is easy and gives me much more flexibility. Those who have followed my builds before know that I am “pin crazy”, because I use pins for just about everything and I prefer to use the base of drill bits for my pins, because they are super strong and I can get any size I want. Since I will be adding lots of weight to the engines, I’m going to use drill bits that are fairly big at 2 mm or 5/64” for added strength.

Cutting off the drill bits into two pieces of about 11-12 mm, I glued them into the holes at the base, then cut off the plastic pins on the engine and drilled out new holes to accept the pins from the bottom.

When fit together, the engine easily slides up and down AND will tilt, according to what alignment is required. Note that I have marked each engine “L” for left and “R” for right, because the fit for each will likely be a little bit different on each side.

Sooooo, sliding the engine into the fuselage boom, I can now move the engine up/down and forward/rearward with tilt, so get the perfect, or at least near perfect, alignment. It looks like I’ll need to sand down that prop a bit at the rear to improve the fit even further.

Once I’m happy with the alignment dry fitted, I will ooze some thick CA glue in from the top opening to cover the exposed pins to seal the deal. Once that is dry, I will remove the engine from the nacelle and glue the engine from underneath with more CA glue to really make it really solid. You can get real sloppy with the glue at this stage because you won’t see any of it.

And last but not least, I’ll load the interior of each engine with 4 big chunks of lead to add nose weight, then ooze more thick CA glue all over them so nothing will move.

So that’s about it boys. Another nagging problem solved and it was VERY easy to do!

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited January 7, 2015 by chuck540z3

[nimrod77]

Nice one Chuck. I love pins too but I usually use brass stock instead of drill bits👍

[nicholassagan]

Good idea with the pins. I like to use magnets for props but that's mostly because there's a flat surface to work with.

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

Looking at the picture with the prop/spinner that much lower then engine nacelle, it just amazes me that Trumpeter considers that acceptable. You fix with those "pins" certainly makes a lot of sense, adds strength to engine mount, so you can add all that weight. Nice save.

Joel

[Aurora Mark]

Good idea with the pins. I like to use magnets for props but that's mostly because there's a flat surface to work with.

Nicholas,

Thanks for this! I'm going to be doing this on my builds from now on to save the props whenever I'm going to be transporting the kits. So simple, and yet, so wicked!

Mark.

[nicholassagan]

The trickiest thing is alignment. I placed the magnets on each part and aligned them with one another and the fuselage before gluing. Also, with the Spitfire build pictured, I left a stub of the mounting post on the hub so it would 'click' into place.

[chuck540z3]

January 12/15

Well I survived my foot surgery from last Thursday and this is the first time I’ve felt like doing any modeling since then. Heavy med’s and lots of football over the weekend weren’t too bad, but now all that’s old and it’s time to get back into the game, even if it’s just playing with plastic this week before I go back to work next week. I’m determined to make some serious progress on this Lightning while I have this golden opportunity!

If you want to have a bare metal finish and you want it to look good, surface prep is the most important step. The plastic must be as smooth and blemish free as possible to begin with, because every tiny flaw will show through and be magnified with the shine of metal. The best way of getting all plastic surfaces ready for paint is to prep them before you glue them all together, which makes it much easier than when they are all stuck together and hard to handle. The fuselage booms on this kit are not as bad as the A-10 kit I just made, but they still need lots of help.

The first order of business is to punt those poorly molded oil cooler vent flaps, which are rough and for some reason angled upwards as shown on the right. Eduard has 4 nice replacements made out of brass, so I carefully cut out the kit flaps and dry fit the new vent on the left. Most photographs of this area on the real deal show the oil cooler vents to be in the closed position, but I also have many pics that show the vents open, so I’m going with that because it’s more interesting to look at.

A side view. I think I’ll have them a bit more closed than the kit vents, because there’s not much to look at underneath, which I’ll paint all flat black before assembly.

As was the case with the A-10, the Trumpeter panel lines and rivets are all wide and shallow (see above), so a lot of detail is lost and weathering washes have nothing to stick to. By re-scribing every panel line and re-punching every rivet and fastener, the detail “pops” more. For all my gripes about Trumpeter , the plastic they use is nice and soft, so when you re-scribe a panel line, the V-groove of the scriber pushes plastic to the outside, narrowing the panel line. Same goes for the rivets. When you re-punch a rivet with a needle in a pin vice, the plastic moves in all directions, filling the wide rivet and leaving only the pin hole. OK, in the pic below I’m cheating a bit, because the weathering wash I used on the left makes everything pop, but adding a wash to the kit parts unaltered is almost a waste of time. I also deleted a few panels that I don’t think belong, but that decision is all over the map according to many pics, so I went with what I liked and made sense. Note all the Dzus fasteners I made for the cowlings using my “Mega Tool” rivet punch. More on that later.

Did you note the new brass “spark plug blast tubes” I made? The kit tubes are just crappy circular plastic with major seam lines that you attach to the engine, then feed through the cowling openings and hope for the best. Good luck with that. These brass tubes are very strong and won’t break off with handling.

With lots of CA glue surrounding the brass, the gap around the tube is sealed on the outside as it should be and those tubes aren’t going anywhere if they are bumped!

I used 2 mm brass tubing, but the internal diameter was too narrow. A little more drilling with my pin vice fixed that.

More side by side comparisons. Yeah, yeah, the wash is not fair, but I think you can still see the difference that re-working the plastic makes.

I also added an access panel to the outer right (starboard) boom according to pics.

Here’s my tools to accomplish all this.

I have 2 Trumpeter scribers which I love, with one new (yellow taped handle) and one old. The new one cuts a very fine line as a first cut, but you have to be careful to keep it in the wide kit panel line grooves. This is followed by the older, duller one, which is wider and finishes the job nicely. I also use a couple of needles in pin vices, with the black one a carbide tipped affair that is terrific for scribing curves. Finally, I have the Mega Tool riveting tool which has 23 different sized rivets. This tool is a MUST for any modeler who wants accuracy of fastener size.

I usually get all sorts of scriber advice when I brag about the Trumpeter scribers, because we all have something that works for us so we swear by it. I own just about every scriber made including the UMM one, but I still wind up using the Trumpeter ones 90% of the time.

That’s it for now guys. I have three more fuselage booms to re-scribe and re-rivet. Not a lot of fun, but if I want to “Kick up my Trumpeter P-38L a notch”, I have no choice!

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited January 13, 2015 by chuck540z3

[chuck540z3]

Ooops, I just realized the text I inserted wiped out the brass spark plug cooling tube. Here's a closer look. You can see the unaltered panel lines and rivets better too.

Edited January 13, 2015 by chuck540z3

[coneheadff]

Fantastic work Chuck!