Jump to content

1/32 Trumpeter P-38L Lightning- "Kicked Up A Notch"


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 532
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Chuck, as usual, your upgrading work is superb. the addition of a proper brass spark plug cooling tube really adds quite a lot. I tried to replicate it in 1/48 scale with a piece of cut wire insulation. I wish I had used your method instead. Your re-scribing and deepening of the rivets really pays off in 1/32, but I do question doing all the flush rivets in 1/48 scale, as I think it will just over power the model surface. As an example just the major ones around the wing fairings would add to rather then subtract from the over all look. As for re-scribing, most certainly is a must as most kits in the smaller scales just don't have deep enough recessed panel lines.

Joel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice scribing, Brother Chuck! I find myself replacing rod-shaped kit parts with brass stock more and more- I hate seams on narrow parts like that! I just made new MG151 barrels for the IAR.

Link to post
Share on other sites

January 14/15

Thank you Gents very much!

Well, after scribing and riveting all day, I’m really, really bored. I’ve had a few questions concerning how I go about re-scribing panel lines and making those Dzus fasteners in the last few days, so I thought, why not, let’s do ANOTHER TUTORIAL! I love taking pictures and if I can combine making some more progress on this build with posting something useful to others, I can get two things done at once and not go crazy string at tiny rivets. Here goes.

Scribing and Riveting Tutorial

Let’s start with an inner boom on the left hand side that I’m about to work on. Here it is OOB, with a little clean-up of flash and other major imperfections. The rivets don’t look too bad, but the Dzus fasteners at the front (right) need help and those panel lines are fairly wide and shallow. That circular access panel in the middle you can hardly see, so after some sanding and paint, it might disappear altogether.

ScribingTutorial1.jpg

The first order of business is to get a new or fairly new sharp scriber and some Dymo tape to be used as a straight edge. Dymo tape has been used for years by modelers to scribe straight lines, but this “classic tape” is becoming very rare since nobody uses the old Dymo labelers any more. I found some on the ‘net so I bought a bunch of it that will last me for many years, so I suggest you do the same before it’s all gone.

Using the tape as a guide along the central panel line, I scratched a very shallow and narrow line within the wide panel line that you can barely see in this photo. Start off REAL LIGHT with the scriber, so that you can hardly tell you are cutting into the plastic. Once through with one swipe, do it again- and again with light strokes until you can tell you’ve made a good mark along the entire panel line. The purpose at this early stage is to provide another, wider scriber a line to grab onto and cut a wider swath through the plastic, assuming that’s what you want. For some extra thin panel lines, this will be enough.

ScribingTutorial2.jpg

Next, use a wider scriber, which is usually just an older and duller scriber, over the same panel line. You may still need the Dymo tape and you may not, but if you cut each time lightly, going over the edge of the panel line and scratching plastic on either side will not be a catastrophe. Here’s a close-up pic of the panel line after the wider scriber was used. Note that I missed a bit a few times on the left, but also extended the panel line according to references all the way down to the bottom. Since each cut was light, the misses can easily be sanded off. If you use lots of pressure to just get it over with, you might be using CA glue later to heal a big wound.

ScribingTutorial3.jpg

Normally I would do all the panel lines and then sand the plastic with 1000 grit sandpaper to remove the scratches, but for this demo I just sanded the one new panel line to show you what it looks like. The dust from the sanding fills the panel line and rivets, giving you a good look at what you’ve achieved and what still needs more sanding or scribing.

ScribingTutorial4.jpg

After doing the other panel lines, sanding has revealed some more of those surface pock marks I mentioned earlier due to plastic features on the other side, in this case the brackets that hold the landing gear well in place.

ScribingTutorial5.jpg

After further sanding with 1000 grit sandpaper, they are now gone. Next is a shallow and tricky circular access panel that needs a different scribing tool, in this case a “needle” made of carbide steel that is super hard. After cutting panel lines the usual way on the box around the circle, I used this needle tool to scratch a very light circle within what little surface detail is still available. Again, go very light with the tool and if you miss, no big deal because you can sand the blemish off later.

ScribingTutorial6.jpg

As you cut more and more circles, the panel line gets deeper and you can get a bit more aggressive without fear of slipping out of the groove.

ScribingTutorial7.jpg

After some more sanding, not too bad.

ScribingTutorial8.jpg

The sanding is dust is easily removed by just running your scribing tool through the groove again. To get it all off, I use a rag with a little varsol or solvent to grab all the fine bits of dust. Next up is new rivets, to deepen the existing ones and to also add some new ones. For fine rivets I use an ordinary sewing needle in a pin vice. This pin has a quickly changing taper, so I can control the width of the rivet by how deep I push the needle into the plastic. It’s easy to see in this pic which rivets I have re-punched and which ones I haven’t. To punch an new rivet hole, push the needle into the location of the rivet and give it a half turn, which smooth’s out the sides of the new hole.

ScribingTutorial9.jpg

Besides a few new small panel lines, this side of the boom needs a few more rivets at the locations indicated. The top ones were created with the pin vice and the Hasegawa metal template, which has the rivet spacing I’m looking for. The purpose of the template is to locate where the new rivets should go, so go very light the first time with the template in place. Once the rivets have been marked into the plastic, go over them all again with just the pin vice, where you can deepen them and even re-locate some rivets that may have gone astray. By pushing the needle into the plastic beside an existing rivet you don’t want, the plastic will actually “flow” into the old rivet by compression, leaving only the new rivet. Some rivets, like the tiny V-shaped reinforcement rivets at the bottom, have to be done freehand. This takes lots of time and practise to do neatly, but over time you will get better and better at it.

ScribingTutorial10.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are lots of templates available to create rivets in a variety of widths and patterns. There’s even rivet wheels with different sized wheels to work with, but I never use these on my models because they (or more likely I) lack control and I sometimes wind up making a real mess. I will use them on pieces of styrene and aluminum where I am scratch building parts that need a lot of rivets, so that if I screw up, I can just make another (and another and another…..).

RivetTemplates.jpg

The circular panel needs bigger fasteners than the needle and the Dzus fasteners need an even bigger impression in the plastic, so I use the “Mega Tool” which has 23 different sized heads. I bought this set from UMM Master Models, one of my favorite cyber hobby shops.

MegaTool.jpg

Here is how the new fasteners look with this tool. To use the tool, center the face over the rivet point, then gently touch the plastic with it. When you are happy with the location, rotate the tool around the center to make a circular impression in every direction. Note the contrast between the new Dzus fasteners on the left and the untouched ones on the right, next to that circular opening.

ScribingTutorial11.jpg

And finally, the central area of this boom is done with more pronounced rivets, fasteners and corrected panel lines that will now cling to weathering washes near the end of the build.

One more time, BEFORE

ScribingTutorial1.jpg

And now AFTER

ScribingTutorial12.jpg

Here's one more example that's a bit more complicated on my F-4E build a few years ago. These Phantoms have slatted wings and the outboard wings, provided by the Cutting Edge kit, had totally wrong panel lines and rivet detail, so I filled it all in with CA glue and started over.

Outboardwing12.jpg

Almost every panel line and every rivet was done by hand according to references, which you rarely see on any other F-4E in 1/32 scale, using the above methods. It doesn't look perfectly symmetrical in this side by side shot, but when they are placed 11 inches away from each other on the model, you'd never notice the differences.

Outboardwing14.jpg

If you have any questions, just fire away. I’ll be very happy to answer them and get away from making more of these damn rivets!

Edited by chuck540z3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Very handy and just in time Chuck! I'm about to go that route with my current build and now I'm a bit more confident since I have the "how to" I've been looking for!

Thanks for all the dedication!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking great, as always, Chuck! I saw your comment on Dymo tape. While it is scarce at stores like Staples, I found it in abundance at Wal-Mart. I found it in their stationary section, and they have 3 rolls to a pack. I think I bought 3 or 4 packages last time I went.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chuck,

Thanks for the tutorial on panel lines and riveting.

Instead of Dymo tape, which as you said isn't the easiest thing to find these days, and isn't exactly cheap, I've been experimenting with masking tape after seeing Paul Budzik's scribing video. I simply take 3 pieces laid one on top of each other, then I cut a fresh straight line, and then a 2nd line the width of the tape I need. I run my scriber gently along the edge and also try to keep an even pressure against the tape. Seems to work well, at least for me. I only get a few lines out of the tape, and then I need to cut a new piece.

Joel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work, great techniques and great tutorials also Chuck!! Thanks a lot for sharing.

Now about tips, what i have also find is that if you want to deepen existing rivets you can also use 0.20mm or 0.30mm drills (depending the scale and how pronounced where the rivets in the real bird) by gentling rotating them on the existing rivet. Remember you want to deepen them not to widen them, so be cautious you dont want to go off scale!!

Also, from my experience, i have found that trumpeter's plastic has a strange''response'' to rescribing or scribing, when the tamiya or revell one perform much better. What i mean is that when you want to rescribe or scribe a new panel to trumpeter plastic, even if you use dymo tape the line you draw comes a bit strange (my english dont help me to use the correct word), does not seem to be all straight, at least to my eyes.

Finally, Chuck allow me to introduce a Dymo tape alternative (unfortunately is sold out for now) http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212469

The good thing with this item is that it is not so sticky as the dymo tape (dymo is very sticky and some times removes the putty from puttied areas, so care should be taken not to use it there!), it is slimmer, transparent, you can use the same piece many times (something you cannot do with dymo) and i think is cheaper than dymo. Anyway i find this item more handy and modellers friendly!!

Thats all from me,

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally, Chuck allow me to introduce a Dymo tape alternative (unfortunately is sold out for now) http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212469

The good thing with this item is that it is not so sticky as the dymo tape (dymo is very sticky and some times removes the putty from puttied areas, so care should be taken not to use it there!), it is slimmer, transparent, you can use the same piece many times (something you cannot do with dymo) and i think is cheaper than dymo. Anyway i find this item more handy and modellers friendly!!

Thats all from me,

John

Thanks John! I will definitely give that a try.

No update today, mostly because my foot surgery won't allow me to sit at my desk to model. My foot (in a cast) needs to be elevated and nothing I try allows me to have my foot level with my waist and still be comfortable enough to model for any length of time. A few more weeks and I should be good to go, so in the interim I'm doing research on the P-38L, but I'm having problems getting real good reference pics. I have 4 decent books on this aircraft (see first post in this thread) and I've found a million pics of the Lightning from a distance and a few worthwhile close-up pics, but you can never have enough pics! Here's some sites I have so far:

This is a good one, but the site is very slow, the pics are small and you can't copy them.....

http://www.kazoku.org/xp-38n/walkaround/

This one isn't bad, but there's only one aircraft

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/p-38l_44-53095/

Soooo, can you guys please direct me to other links that might have more pics, especially of the P-38L version? I need details!

Thank you,

Chuck

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pure GOLD John, Thanks! This helps a lot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chuck,

So glad to have found this WIP. I always enjoy and appreciate your builds, especially your tutorials and tips on the different techniques you use. They are much appreciated.

Now, correct me if I am wrong but is this brake line not in the wrong portion of the wheel? I believe it should be in the center section of the wheel not the outer section. The brakes would last about 3 seconds once the tires turned and snapped the brake line off.

Gearwell11.jpg

Cheers.

Don

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, correct me if I am wrong but is this brake line not in the wrong portion of the wheel? I believe it should be in the center section of the wheel not the outer section. The brakes would last about 3 seconds once the tires turned and snapped the brake line off.

Cheers.

Don

I would correct you if you are wrong but you are correct! Thanks Don, you saved me from some future embarrassment! :doh: :blush: I will change the location when I get to doing the final fittings and attachment of the line.

Edited by chuck540z3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chuck, I hope your foot's doing better! and I wish I could help you with your pictures query! instead I have a question for you, beeing resident "how to" guru! :thumbsup:

I've never used future in the past cause it's something one can not find here in Guatemala, so, after whatching your Phantom's job I knew I wanted to give it a try, and then you convinced me with the clear plastic discussion, I have it now, after a two weeks wait!!, it happens when you're so deep into the third world I guess.

My question is on how does one takes it when it comes to clear coating the surface for decals? I gave it a try on a pylon and the stuff is so thin my airbrush kept "pushing" it out of the surface, I tried with really low pressure and changing position (closer or far) but I was kind of guessing. I'm I'm not as clever as I thought I was....I'm working on a Mitsubishi F-2b and I want it to be as good as I can possibly do it.

Could you please tell me how do you do it? if that's not a problem for you! I wouldn't want to bother you or taking your modeling time, if you know what I mean!

Thanks and regards

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chuck, I hope your foot's doing better! and I wish I could help you with your pictures query! instead I have a question for you, being resident "how to" guru!

I've never used future in the past cause it's something one can not find here in Guatemala, so, after watching your Phantom's job I knew I wanted to give it a try, and then you convinced me with the clear plastic discussion, I have it now, after a two weeks wait!!, it happens when you're so deep into the third world I guess.

My question is on how does one takes it when it comes to clear coating the surface for decals? I gave it a try on a pylon and the stuff is so thin my airbrush kept "pushing" it out of the surface, I tried with really low pressure and changing position (closer or far) but I was kind of guessing. I'm I'm not as clever as I thought I was....I'm working on a Mitsubishi F-2b and I want it to be as good as I can possibly do it.

Could you please tell me how do you do it? if that's not a problem for you! I wouldn't want to bother you or taking your modeling time, if you know what I mean!

Thanks and regards

Thanks for your comments and concern for my foot. I had two large pins removed from it today, so I am on the road to recovery and should be able to drive again in about 3 weeks. Having had this surgery before last year as well, I'm not sure what is worse: The pain of the surgery itself or the pain of watching my wife drive me around the last few weeks! They are both horrible! :o

Since I've been asked this questions before, here's a cut/paste of a tutorial I gave in my A-10C build about 9 months ago.

Tutorial: Creating a glossy, blemish free finish with Future

1) The surface to be sprayed must be totally smooth to begin with. If you think that a coat or two of Future will eliminate rough spots, think again, it won’t. It will just make it harder to get rid of them later.

2) Like any acrylic paint, the application of Future requires that all oils from your hands be removed or it will repel them, leaving a mottled finish. I just use a rag soaked in Windex and go over the entire model first.

3) Get rid of all the dust particles and CRAP you can find! I cannot emphasize how important this step is, because little bits of fuzz, hair and dust will get trapped in the Future, which is very difficult to remove later. A dust rag, followed by compressed air gets rid of most of it, but some of it will still be left behind no matter what you do. More on that later.

4) Mix up a batch of 90/10 Future and Windex in a bottle, then shake it. You will see the two components swirl as they try to repel each other at first, then surrender into a clear bluish mixture.

5) Set the air pressure for your airbrush so that the spraying pressure is about 12-15 psi. Airbrush spraying pressures are often confusing because some guys quote the “shut-in pressure” on the regulator, rather than what the pressure is when the airbrush is actually spraying. For my particular compressor, I need to set the regulator to about 21 psi, to get a spraying pressure about 6-8 psi lower when I pull the trigger. Your results will likely vary from this, so experiment a bit.

6) They key to spraying Future, especially diluted Future, is to always spray on a level or almost level, horizontal surface. Gravity is the enemy, but you can work with it if you are able to pick up your model in your hands and turn it as it dries. Wear rubber gloves to avoid fingerprints.

7) Use a space heater with a fan to accelerate drying times. My spray booth is in my garage to avoid fumes in the house, so I discovered by accident that a space heater to warm things up works great to accelerate drying times of all paints, including Future.

8) Get a good source of light from a variety of angles where you plan on spraying. Since Future is totally clear, the only way you can tell how much you are spraying is to look for the reflection of the Future under indirect light.

9) After filing up your airbrush with Future, do a few test sprays to make sure everything is coming out nice and smooth with no sputters. If it does sputter, your airbrush is either clogged or maybe the air pressure is too low. Fix it first or you'll be sorry!

10) When you spray Future, shoot away from the model then gradually pull the spray to the model without stopping. As with any paint, stopping and starting the spray cycle results in sputtering, so keep the flow going as long as possible, which also avoids clogging of the airbrush nozzle because the Future doesn’t get a chance to dry if you keep spraying.

11) Holding the model in your hands, spray enough Future to get the surface totally wet with no orange peel- but no more! Keep the airbrush moving, getting all level surfaces wet, then stop and let the space heater dry the mixture until it flashes or sets. You can then rotate the model a few degrees, as required, to get curved surfaces wet as well, blending in the set Future with newly sprayed Future with overlapping spray strokes.

12) Now the real tricky part that takes lots of practice. Sometimes I overspray a bit and the Future starts to run down the sides a bit. Don’t panic! Turn the model and spray even more Future on the run, then rotate the model back and forth next to the space heater so that no surface is truly level for more than a few seconds. Eventually the Future will level out, set and won’t run anymore, but keep turning the model until it does.

13) You should notice by now that, sure enough, there is some crap trapped in the Future coat. Leave it alone and let it dry! Again, more on that later. If you play with it or try to remove it, you will make a bigger mess than the dust particle.

14) Spray in “quadrant sessions”, so that you can handle the model from underneath without fear of leaving fingerprints. For instance, I might spray the top of one wing, the top of the fuselage and the corresponding horizontal stabilizer, along with one side of the fuselage using the above rotation method. I then let the whole thing dry for at least an hour, before I attempt to touch the Future coat as I spray the other side and remaining parts of the model. Again, use rubber gloves and a light touch. To do my big A-10C Hog which is just under 2 feet wide by 2 feet long, I had about 6 spraying sessions over the span of an afternoon.

15) Always overlap your coats of Future, again, getting them real wet without running. Easier said than done, I know, but with practice it becomes second nature.

16) When the model has thoroughly dried for a day, you can fix the many blemishes that will no doubt occur. Using 1000 grit sandpaper, try to sand out the fuzz and crap from the finish. If the particle is too deep within the Future coat, spray a bit of paint over the blemished area, let it dry, re-sand lightly, then apply another coat of Future. You will be surprised how well everything blends in. For instance, I dropped a pair of tweezers on my model while decaling, chipping the nose right down to the plastic. Aaaaagh! :bandhead2: I sanded out the blemish, repainted the flaw and the immediate surrounding area, then I re-applied Future. The mark disappeared completely.

17) Dried Future sands easily, so if you have a few drips here and there, sand them out when they are thoroughly dry, then re-spray.

18) Depending on the results of your first coat, you may need several coats of Future to get the finish you want. My Phantom took 3 coats and the Hog needed 2. For subsequent coats, I found that 50% Future and 50% Windex works best, as the thinner mixture filled in small depressions and the Windex "melted" the older Future and allowed it to level out some more.

19) Once in awhile you may find that the Future turns whitish and looks really bad. Don't worry about it, because it almost always disappears with drying time.

20) Before applying decals and Microsol, let the Future finish dry and cure for at least 2 days. Microsol sometimes makes the Future whitish as above. Again, just let it dry some more and it will be gone.

One last comment. Future is not better than any other gloss coat, but what I like about it is that if I have a disaster, I can always remove it entirely with Windex and not harm the paint. Also, I hate the look of Future on a bare metal finish because I think it looks artificial, so stick with thinner clear lacquers like Alclad gloss coat instead on metallic surfaces.

Now a few examples of a model with a good coat of Future ready for decals.....

Future10.jpg

Future13.jpg

If you can, paint and Future parts off the model so that they can be perfectly flat while spraying.

Future14.jpg

Edited by chuck540z3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been looking for this post for the las three hours on your phantom thread!! :bandhead2:

Just a last question regarding weather temperature, do I have to be as carefull as with glosscote? I mean, Does it have to be warm? or it doesn't matter? We're having some "low" temperatures, at least low for the latitud and I would like to know if that can affect the result? the temperature is between 10°C and 15°C.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been looking for this post for the las three hours on your phantom thread!! :bandhead2:/>

Just a last question regarding weather temperature, do I have to be as carefull as with glosscote? I mean, Does it have to be warm? or it doesn't matter? We're having some "low" temperatures, at least low for the latitud and I would like to know if that can affect the result? the temperature is between 10°C and 15°C.

During winter here, I often spray everything, including Future, between 5 and 10 degrees in my garage, BUT, that is where the space heater comes into play. Next to the heater the temps are in the high 20's, which you need in order for the Future to dry quick enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Heaters are something we just don't think of here! I'll wait a bit for the weather to get a bit warmer!!

Very kind of you to take the time to answer my questions Chuck! one of the things that make you a great modeller! I appreciate!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it the ammonia in windex that is the important ingredient?

Since windex isn't available on this side of the big pond could ajax window cleaner be a substitute?

Not sure if ajax contain ammonia or not, but I suspect that some versions of it does.

/Johan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it the ammonia in windex that is the important ingredient?

Since windex isn't available on this side of the big pond could ajax window cleaner be a substitute?

Not sure if ajax contain ammonia or not, but I suspect that some versions of it does.

/Johan

Hi Johan, ammonia is the key ingredient, so I'm sure the Ajax cleaner will work and is about the same as Windex. I've been told that ammonia based window cleaners will also remove some acrylic paints, so be careful if you use them. I use enamels and lacquers exclusively, so there are no issues with paint removal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...