Eduard Bundesfighter

[Wayfarer 30]

Eduard F-104

Looks nice, but they are not giving them away.

Happy Holidays

Mike

Edited December 27, 2014 by Wayfarer 30

[Jennings]

Whose plastic is that?

[Rodney]

Whose plastic is that?

Hasegawa

To me, the price is a little steep for what little after market items you get.

Rodney

[Jennings]

I've just never been able to get past the scale 2" deep divots all over that kit. A real F-104 is smooth as a baby's butt.

[MoFo]

Fun fact: if you live in the Czech Republic, retail price on that kit is only $48.92 (US). If you're in the EU, it's $75.45. Anywhere else in the world will be $99.95.

[Jennings]

Good luck with that guys...

[Koen L]

That price sounds a bit silly indeed when you can get several of these with a load of resin for the same money http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=HSG%2009365

[JeffreyK]

I think it's a really bad deal for what you get - Eduard have just released their own exhaust sets for the 104 and wheel sets as well, but none of it is in the box. And you still need Daco's update set anyway….

(note from Eduard can only get the narrow tyres with the early disk hubs, or the wide tyres with the spoked hubs. For narrow tyres with spoked hubs, e.g. for Japanese or Canadian Starfighters, my Hypersonic tyres are still the only option)

[Kevan Vogler]

Fun fact: if you live in the Czech Republic, retail price on that kit is only $48.92 (US). If you're in the EU, it's $75.45. Anywhere else in the world will be $99.95.

$48.92 American dollars converts to around 1,115 Czech koruny; that's still pricey by a Czech standard for what is a straight reissue of another company's kit with minimal extras.

Anytime I've seen a 1/72 or 1/48 kit over 1,000 koruny on a shelf; it was either full resin, packed with a lot of extras or just a really big subject physically.

I hate to say; Eduard makes some nice kits, but their business practices leave me a bit cold of late.

[Thomas]

The set might be good base for somone who does not have a Starfighter kit yet, but not for the price asked.

They should have at least included decals for the Lizard scheme, too which does not require a lot of decals anyway.

Then all schemes would have been covered.

Thomas

PS: The Czech price is is without VAT of 21%.

[mawz]

The set might be good base for somone who does not have a Starfighter kit yet, but not for the price asked.

They should have at least included decals for the Lizard scheme, too which does not require a lot of decals anyway.

Then all schemes would have been covered.

Thomas

PS: The Czech price is is without VAT of 21%.

It's a nice decal sheet, an already wildly overpriced kit and you still need the Daco set to do a decent G.

[Wayfarer 30]

It reminds me of the limited edition Flankers and Fulcrums they put out. They seemed a bit expensive for an Academy kit with some extras.

[Pep]

At least the fulcrums and flankers had full cockpits this just has a seat.

Crazy in my opinion.

[PeepingBear]

Hi everybody!

It seems more attractive to combine a HAS F-104 kit with Daco's F-104 enhancenment set (which is massive!). Without extra decals, the price for the basic kit and the Daco set is about the same as Eduard's offer.

Eduard's previous beefed-up kits were really more attractive than this "Bundesfighter".

Just my tuppence...

Cheers to all

Ian

[randypandy831]

way overpriced. only thing I would want is the decal sheet. their phantom is way more loaded and around the same price.

Edited January 3, 2015 by randypandy831

[Pep]

It would be nice if Eduard developed a new product line with everything in the box but the kit plastics. Most already have these kits in our stash and Eduard could still be seeing the same profit margins by only offering the updates.

They could include some resin and PE along with masks and decals with full instructions.

Full kit make over.

[mawz]

It would be nice if Eduard developed a new product line with everything in the box but the kit plastics. Most already have these kits in our stash and Eduard could still be seeing the same profit margins by only offering the updates.

They could include some resin and PE along with masks and decals with full instructions.

Full kit make over.

Eduard does does this to some extent. Their Big Ed and Big Sin sets are exactly this, for PE and Resin. They sadly don't include their excellent decals (which they don't normally sell separately, which is a pity)

[Vaildog]

Just saw Spruebrothers has the Bundesfighter/NATO fighter combo in stock. Is this two kits, or just a single kit with and expanded decal sheet?

[MoFo]

One kit, two decals. Apparently one of the two boxings was a big hit, while the second was a massive flop. So they decided to add the decals from the first kit, hoping to sell the slow-moving version.

Also, fun fact: if you are Czech, Eduard will only charge you $52(plus VAT) for the kit. If you are American, Eduard will charge you $110.

[Superheat]

Also, fun fact: if you are Czech, Eduard will only charge you $52(plus VAT) for the kit. If you are American, Eduard will charge you $110.

Well, actually, your "fun fact" is very misleading. Within the EU, VAT is part of the retail price, not added on at the time of sale, like sales tax in the US. The VAT rate in the Czech Republic is 21%, so if you are a Czech, or a resident of any other EU member state, the price of the kit is $62.95, and that is the price you would see on the shelf, not $52.00. And the Sprue Brothers price for the kit is $87.99, not $110, a difference of $25.00 above the EU price. It is still a big difference, but not, as you have stated it, more than double.

I am not defending Eduard, their business practices have become more than a bit "sharp" of late (especially with these special editions: big prices for what is really little added value) but you have grossly misstated the difference.

Tom

[MoFo]

No.

First and foremost, if you are ordering from Sprue Bros, Eduard aren't charging you anything. If you order from Eduard, it is $110.

Also: how is it "very misleading" that the Czech price I cited doesn't include sales tax when I *say* the Czech price doesn't include sales tax.

Secondly, VAT is listed as a separate line when ordering from Eduard. But, that doesn't actually matter, because I am comparing apples and apples here. Eduard set separate - and dramatically lower - prices in the Czech Republic. In this case, Eduard are charging:

excl. VAT 1.231,40 Kč

VAT 21%

incl. VAT 1.490 Kč

(pulled directly from my cart, going through the checkout process)

1231.40 Kč = $51.90 USD.

1490 Kč = $62.80 USD.

If you punch in an address outside the EU, those currencies conveniently switch to US dollars. And the price for the kit, in US dollars, from Eduard, is $110. Since you do not live in the EU, you don't have to pay VAT, which means you need to compare with the pre-VAT Czech price. So the extent to which Eduard is gouging you is the USD price - the Czech pre-VAT price: $110 - $51.90 = $58.81.

Just like Sprue Bros don't charge you Missouri State sales tax, because you are in Delaware. If they charged you that extra 4% anyway, you probably wouldn't be happy. If they tried to charge you 1.75x as much, because you are in Delaware, you'd probably be pretty annoyed.

Thirdly, no, the price isn't $62.80 for anyone in a EU member state. If you punch in an address in France, or Germany, or the UK, it will conveniently switch currency to the Euro, and the Euro price for the kit, including VAT, is €82.45. Which is $93.95 USD.

If you live in the Czech Republic, Eduard will charge you $62.80.

If you live in the rest of Europe, Eduard will charge you $93.95.

If you live anywhere else in the world, Eduard will charge you $110.

That is incredibly shady.

Edited April 1, 2016 by MoFo

[Superheat]

No.

First and foremost, if you are ordering from Sprue Bros, Eduard aren't charging you anything. If you order from Eduard, it is $110.

Also: how is it "very misleading" that the Czech price I cited doesn't include sales tax when I *say* the Czech price doesn't include sales tax.

Secondly, VAT is listed as a separate line when ordering from Eduard. But, that doesn't actually matter, because I am comparing apples and apples here. Eduard set separate - and dramatically lower - prices in the Czech Republic. In this case, Eduard are charging:

excl. VAT 1.231,40 Kč

VAT 21%

incl. VAT 1.490 Kč

(pulled directly from my cart, going through the checkout process)

1231.40 Kč = $51.90 USD.

1490 Kč = $62.80 USD.

If you punch in an address outside the EU, those currencies conveniently switch to US dollars. And the price for the kit, in US dollars, from Eduard, is $110. Since you do not live in the EU, you don't have to pay VAT, which means you need to compare with the pre-VAT Czech price. So the extent to which Eduard is gouging you is the USD price - the Czech pre-VAT price: $110 - $51.90 = $58.81.

Just like Sprue Bros don't charge you Missouri State sales tax, because you are in Delaware. If they charged you that extra 4% anyway, you probably wouldn't be happy. If they tried to charge you 1.75x as much, because you are in Delaware, you'd probably be pretty annoyed.

Thirdly, no, the price isn't $62.80 for anyone in a EU member state. If you punch in an address in France, or Germany, or the UK, it will conveniently switch currency to the Euro, and the Euro price for the kit, including VAT, is €82.45. Which is $93.95 USD.

If you live in the Czech Republic, Eduard will charge you $62.80.

If you live in the rest of Europe, Eduard will charge you $93.95.

If you live anywhere else in the world, Eduard will charge you $110.

That is incredibly shady.

OK. point taken, you were considering only Eduard as a source, and their prices for anyone outside the Czech Republic are outrageous. But I think it is more accurate to say that Eduard set "dramatically" higher prices outside the Czech Republic, most likely to support its dealers around the world by actively discouraging direct sales. I guarantee you those prices you quote from Eduard for locations outside the Czech Republic are not what you would pay from dealers in those countries. I lived in the EU for 12 years and bought a lot of stuff from Eduard directly because it was convenient for me to do so, but also from dealersas well and the prices were pretty much the same. My go-to source in the EU is Kits Discount in France and their price for the kit 56.90 euros, or 47.12 euros ex-VAT, plus shipping. Much better on both scores than Eduard. I brought up Sprue Brothers because the retail price they quote is $110, just like Eduard, but their sales price is substantially less at $87.99, though admittedly much higher than a Czech would pay. Or an American, or Canadian, or anyone else, should have to pay, but the fact is they don't have to pay that price because the kit is available from other sources inside and outside the EU for much less, as I just pointed out. (I must say, though, that if $87.99 is the best that Sprue Brothers can do on the kit, then Eduard isn't doing them any favors, but I don't know if they buy directly from Eduard or whether there is a US importer/distributor, which would jack up the price considerably. I suspect that this is the case, though, since my LHS has recently started stocking Eduard kits.) But as others have pointed out in the thread, why would anyone buy this kit anyway, when you can get the Hasegawa kit off eBay for around $30.00, add the DACO set for 47.50 euro (+ shipping), and be WAY ahead of this deal.

As I said, before,I am no big fan of Eduard. As they have become a big name in the business, they have become more than a bit arrogant, and with these kind of "deals" they seem to have adopted a "Less for More" strategy. At one point they really were a bargain, what you got in the way of extra resin and PE was well worth the price, but these days you seem to get less in the way of extras and more in the way of price. But I do understand why they have the price structure on their site that they have, and I am sure that it is to encourage customers to buy from their local dealers, not directly from them. And it works - at least on me. I haven't ordered anything directly from Eduard for several years, and it is strictly because of the cost penalty for doing so. I would strongly advise you to do - or, as it were, not do - the same. Even the idiotically named Bunny Fighters Club doesn't get you enough off to make it worth while.

As to why it is misleading to not include the VAT in the price, it is because it IS part of the price, and a substantial part as I pointed out. VAT is not a sales tax, added to the retail price at the time of sale, it is, once again, an integral part of the retail price. When you see an item on a shelf in the EU the price you see ALWAYS includes the VAT. It is unlawful to do otherwise, though in tourist hotspots you often see both prices. You will never see the ex-VAT price "plus VAT" as you so often see "plus tax" in the US sales tax states. So what a Czech would see as the price for this kit in his LHS would be 1.490 Kč, NOT 1.231,40 Kč + VAT.

Canada has something similar to VAT, but at only 5%, and I don't know how it works, but I think it is assessed like a sales tax. You would know better than I.

Tom

[Vodnik]

I guess I should consider myself lucky, as ordering to Poland I still see the Czech price (incl.VAT of course) in my cart and at the checkout. So Poland, while an EU member, is treated differently from Euro-zone countries. But I can still buy Eduard products cheaper from my LHS :)

[ya-gabor]

Well you should come to Mosonmagyarovar showin two weeks time and I am sure Eduard will have around 15-20% discount on all products! :D :D :D

OK joke apart, if someone is so interested in Edu products then it is worth considering joining the Bunny Fighter Club and you get discounts all arond the year on your orders! Have a look on Edu page.

Best regards

Gabor

[MoFo]

it is worth considering joining the Bunny Fighter Club and you get discounts all arond the year on your orders!

Except it really isn't worth it, because the price that Eduard charge foreigners (I believe CzR, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary all get the 'local' rate, everyone else gets shafted) is so ridiculously high that the 15% BFC discount doesn't make a dent. It is substantially cheaper to pay full price somewhere like Jadar or Modelimex, or even Sprue Bros or Squadron.