dylan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 A330 hit by a catering truck. some of the comments of course are worth the price of admission alone. Linky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That is some funny reading right there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wow...no excuses, unless there was a mechanical malfunction. Quick "there I was" story: I used to work as an A&P down in Mobile, Alabama (MAE). They had a bunch of second hand GSE, tugs etc. that were of questionable reliability. I'm heading out to a FedEx 727 one evening when the tug decides it doesn't want to stop or slow down. I steer away from the aircraft (more because I envision my self being wedged between the tug seat and underside of the 727 than giving a shite about their airplane), when I do I end up impacting a man lift coming to an abrupt stop. Two days later I'm in a Safety/Misuse hearing with the mngrs who wanna grill me for "hot rodding" the tug. I kindly tell them the POS tug couldn't be hot rodded even if I were immature enough to do so and go on to remind them that "Oh, by the way, I'm OK, thanks." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Is it okay that I chuckled. A little? Same kind of thing happened to me, except that it was a tractor for our deicer trailer. Steering locked up, and the gas stuck. Thanfully no one in the bucket, but I had some fun explaining it... ah, to be a young ramp-rat again... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Stupid Airbus went and ruined a perfectly good service truck. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moose135 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That actually happened about a month ago down here in Charlotte. It was on the ramp outside the US Airways maintenance hangar, and happened at night. Shortly after it happened, I saw photos and a diagram of how it happened (which I can't find now...) As I remember, there were a line of aircraft on the ramp, the truck was driving from one to another, and his headlights didn't pick up the A330 that he ran into. Despite what the title says, the airplane isn't 3 months old, it was delivered in October 2013, is worth much more than $30 million, and is expected to be repaired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 One of the comments mentioned the NOAA N Prime Anomaly in 2003 As the NOAA-N Prime spacecraft was being repositioned from vertical to horizontal on the "turn over cart" at approximately 7:15 PDT today, it slipped off the fixture, causing severe damage. (See attached photo). The 18' long spacecraft was about 3' off the ground when it fell. The investigation report determined Proximate Cause: The NOAA N-PRIME satellite fell because the LMSSC [Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company] operations team failed to follow procedures to properly configure the TOC [turn over cart], such that the 24 bolts that were needed to secure the TOC adapter plate to the TOC were not installed. In other words, somebody removed the bolts, the operations team didn't check to see if the spacecraft was still bolted onto the TOC, they went to tip it over, and... The spacecraft was repaired and eventually launched in 2008. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishthe47guy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Some of the comments of course are worth the price of admission alone. Linky Oh god yes, there are some funny as heck comments... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've seen many......and management instead of increasing training has decreased it. Being an Old Ramp Rat there is one thing you can't teach and that is Ramp sense. Ramp Sense is that part of your training that kicks in sub-consciously when you walk around a rotating Prop.... or drive outside of the Aircraft Shadow. When you stop and wait until that jet engine spools down. When you rely on other professionals to do their jobs right......and you hope they were trained properly. The problem is that it's just not worth doing anymore.....because some Bean counter has determined that statistically the chances of an incident happening are remote. The cost associated are something they can live with in actual savings... in lets say wages and benefits..... and the inherent desire for finding something for cheap. How much are you willing to pay for your own safety is the question. And it's usually too late to dish out that extra cash when you are facing that .01% chance the bean counter determined was worth taking a risk over. This is why there is a shortage of pilots and mechanics/maintainers even competent ground crews....it's just not worth doing for the amount of responsibility required and expected. But in reality it's cheaper to find a solution in firing that ill trained person than that highly educated Bean Counter. Here is an actual event that occurred to one member of my crew..... He was driving a baggage tractor going to his next assignment.... conditions were very high winds Above 90KmH and our baggage tractors are open air. He was driving along and the wind caught the Hood and popped it open....swinging it open smacking my crew member in the head. Lot's of Blood....was taken to the emergency and he was off on Comp for a week....... Managements investigation determined that it was his fault as he didn't do a proper walk around of the baggage tractor and disciplined him for it.....yet when he started to remove equipment from service because of the same flaw..... they disciplined him for doing that. Can't win can you.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Came outta nowhere boss!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Came outta nowhere boss!! LMAO.... oh sorry poor airplane. Sometimes a good rant cleans the soul.... but when they investigate the real root cause.... No they won't will they. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Here is an actual event that occurred to one member of my crew..... He was driving a baggage tractor going to his next assignment.... conditions were very high winds Above 90KmH and our baggage tractors are open air. He was driving along and the wind caught the Hood and popped it open....swinging it open smacking my crew member in the head. Lot's of Blood....was taken to the emergency and he was off on Comp for a week....... Managements investigation determined that it was his fault as he didn't do a proper walk around of the baggage tractor and disciplined him for it.....yet when he started to remove equipment from service because of the same flaw..... they disciplined him for doing that. Can't win can you.... Same-same back home. It was a fun job... a very fun job. Then we began to hire a few new guys that really were there only to fill the Christmas rush. One of those new guys ended up driving the deicing tractor setup I mentioned before... nearly took my head off when he decided to pull forward while I was spraying the wings of a Dash-8. You drive the truck, stop the truck. I raise the bucket, spray, lower the bucket, give the thumbs up, we move to another quarter, and do the same, until the aircraft is done. He pulled UNDER the wing of the Dash-8... yeah, UNDER it! I felt it moving, and so I turned around and as fast as I could, I started to lower the bucket. Inches, and I mean inches from contacting the aileron. My jacket was snagged by one of the static wicks. Who was at fault? Me. Why? I was the senior guys. So, it was a severe reprimand for almost damaging equipment, and aircraft, and my AVOP was pulled until a new exam and test were done. The drivers excuse was that he thought I was done. Didn't look for me to give a thumbs up, or that the bucket was down, or drive AROUND the aircraft. 45 minutes after I was threatened and put on probation for the incident, I submitted my resignation, 3 week notice, and a copy of the e-mail I sent to my supervisor, where I said that I didn't support the idea of having the jr. guys sitting in the trucks, while the sr. guy was in the bucket, simply because the sr. guy knew where to spray the aircraft, and "anyone can drive a truck." Took my 3 weeks of apologies from the supervisor, and then packed up my gear and said to heck with it. I didn't need to deal with that kind of crap. Oddly enough, same driver rolled a half full fuel truck 4 weeks after I left. I look at how it worked then, and now I look at the airfield I work at now in Greenwood. The guys and gals out here are something to really watch. A stand up group, very professional, safe, and just a hell of a job they're doing. Short on numbers, but they certainly don't show it. I'm sure they'd lose their minds if they saw how things were done (and likely still are) out West where I used to work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
model junky Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If they can't economically repair the pressure bulkhead then they can either supply oxygen masks for the passengers and crew or the aircraft can become the world's largest crop duster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Same-same back home. It was a fun job... a very fun job. Then we began to hire a few new guys that really were there only to fill the Christmas rush. One of those new guys ended up driving the deicing tractor setup I mentioned before... nearly took my head off when he decided to pull forward while I was spraying the wings of a Dash-8. You drive the truck, stop the truck. I raise the bucket, spray, lower the bucket, give the thumbs up, we move to another quarter, and do the same, until the aircraft is done. He pulled UNDER the wing of the Dash-8... yeah, UNDER it! I felt it moving, and so I turned around and as fast as I could, I started to lower the bucket. Inches, and I mean inches from contacting the aileron. My jacket was snagged by one of the static wicks. Don't they have a lockout that prevents the truck from being moved while the platform is elevated? I thought that was a standard feature on most lifts? Regardless, I've seen those guys at work (from the warmth of the terminal or inside the aircraft). That truly looks like a suck job. My compliments to you for your hard work. Not the kind of job that you can cut corners on, without very bad things happening. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Old school, tractor (a covered cab) pulling a trailer with the de-icing unit on it. Two separate items. And thanks! I really appreciate it. Edited January 8, 2015 by Aurora Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I implicitly trusted our military groundcrew. They were usually super professional, and safety-conscious. Any time somebody pulled a boner move, you could count on a supervisor reaming him out; problem solved before it became a big one. On cross-countries with military aircraft at civilian fields? A different story. I saw one hot dog careening around the ramp with an electric ground power cart one day, cornering on 2 wheels (not quite, but almost). Bozo the clown wanted to drive his vehicle and its power cart between my T-33's tip tank and the fence at the edge of the ramp... I stood there and blocked the path, telling him to go around. He wasn't happy. Mewed about how "he was OK" and "he was responsible if anything happened, so I should move out of his way". I stubbornly blocked his way, and told him that I couldn't give an f-ing (bad word), and that even if the blame were his, I would be the one stuck with a damaged airplane in Thunder Bay for the weekend. He swore at me, but went around - and his supervisor got an earful from me, plus a formal letter of complaint to the company from our Wing Operations Officer. They almost lost their contract to supply fuel to the military transient aircraft that flew through there. Funny, I never saw that clown again, and I frequently flew through that airfield. I don't mean to say that all civilian crews are like that guy (Emvar knows I respect guys like him enormously), but it's up to all aviation professionals to be aware of what is happening. The bane of all small operations is cutting corners; it's a real shame when it is sanctioned by management. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If the short-cut worked, it wouldn't be called a short-cut; it would be called "the right way." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If the short-cut worked, it wouldn't be called a short-cut; it would be called "the right way." Yup, right up until something bad happened... then there would be a quick search for blame. There has to be some kind of happy medium between the military insistence that it takes 5 or 6 people to tow a small aircraft: 1 x tow truck driver 2 x wing walkers 1 x brake rider in cockpit 1 x supervisor walking along (total 5; sometimes 6) and a civilian operation where one person hooks up the aircraft with the tug and pushes it around with no additional help. I'm sure the professionals in this area have looked at all the probabilities and determined risk vs reward, as Emvar alluded to. One thing is clear; to work around aircraft, you have to have a safety-first attitude. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Airbus must have some kind of aura for [ on the ground ] accidents around it, not too many years ago an airline crew used one to demolish a block wall. I would hate to be that driver applying for a new job, Question: why did you leave your last employment Ans: A truck I was in hit a $30M parked airbus, and they blamed me. Edited January 8, 2015 by #1 Greywolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Airbus must have some kind of aura for [ on the ground ] accidents around it, not too many years ago an airline crew used one to demolish a block wall. I think that was a A340-500 or 600 scheduled to be delivered to Etihad. Not a pretty sight. Unfortunately the experience is going away and we're not passing it along to Generation Black Hole.... These kids don't want to do anything. So they take a management job the day after they learned to Wipe Their A $ $ by themselves without mommy watching over them. Don't get me wrong the kids are book smart and very skilled at XBox. Oh and very good at finding places to cut corners at. But practical stuff is not a strong asset. Mostly they don't have pride in their work, when you are proud of what you do it's not work. Working safe and smart also goes hand in hand with that pride. I still enjoy the fun stuff and my co-workers The locker room banter and all the serious stuff..... my crew and I have been together almost 10 years so you kinda get that 6th sense of where everybody is at when we are working. It's gotten to the point where you can tell by facial expressions and hand signals what someone is saying. We all have each others back, it's saved our bacon many times. Recently I had a new kid shadow me as he was trying to become a Lead. I let him do his thing and watched, We had a tight turn to do and the problem was the flight crew duty day. It was a 767-300 full in (meaning we had a tonne of cargo and baggage to offload and full out meaning the same going out.) The turn time they gave us was 50 minutes..... The shadows head was spinning as he could not believe 5 of us had that bird offloaded and reloaded in 26 minutes. We had to wait for fuelers/catering/grooming and PAX services to finish. And not one corner was cut.... flight departed at 45 minutes. No running or rushing just everyone doing what needed to be done to meet a goal. I have seen worse gashes to aircraft that one will get repaired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomcatFanatic123 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 One of the comments mentioned the NOAA N Prime Anomaly in 2003 The investigation report determined In other words, somebody removed the bolts, the operations team didn't check to see if the spacecraft was still bolted onto the TOC, they went to tip it over, and... The spacecraft was repaired and eventually launched in 2008. Oh, I remember this one quite well. Big story out here at Vandenberg once the payload finally arrived at the launch site after the...ahem..."incident." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 :D, I read some of the comments in the link and wondered what the conditions were like at the time of this "incident". I also wondered if some of the people who posted those comments really had a clue what they were criticising the vehicle driver for. We don't know all the circumstances as the incident is still under investigation. What were the weather conditions at the time? Had the vehicle operator had to work a double shift because someone else hadn't turned up to work and they couldn't get any one else to cover it? How many times during my working life have I been there? Was the operator coming down with the flu or some other disease at the time? Had the headlights failed? Was the tarmac snowy and slippery? Did the vehicle have ABS brakes? This feature and good headlights aren't particularly well known on tarmac vehicles because of cost and other factors. Having worked on tarmacs at night around large aircraft I know they can sometimes be hard to see, and yes I having been operating a large towing tractor on a very dark cloudy night after midnight when the headlights totally failed me and at a point on the tarmac where there large military transports parked but that wasn't well lit at the time (the tarmac flood lights had also failed). Have these armchair expert critics, as some of them obviously were, ever been in that person's shoes? Having been there, done that and got the t-shirt to prove it, I can think of about a thousand and one other questions to ask and get sensible answers to before I'd be prepared to condemn the vehicle operator. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Do parking lot rules apply where the fault is 50/50 between drivers? Who knows, maybe the Airbust turned into the driver? Cut him off? Did the truck have the right of way? Joking aside, you make a very good point Ross. In the RCAF we have a program called HPMA which takes flight safety and ground safety very seriously, trying to educate and eliminate as many factors that contribute to the "Swiss cheese model" as possible, in order to prevent this type of thing from happening. A lot of the questions you're asking would be the very same being asked by many of us. Doesn't take much for that hole in the Swiss cheese model to line up, eh? Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moose135 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I found the write up on the incident that I alluded to earlier - someone had shared it from an internal AA/US employee site. The incident happened at 5am, in the dark - they were looking for an aircraft they were scheduled to service, and in keeping with their standard practice, pointed the truck towards the aircraft so the headlights would illuminate the number on the nose gear door. This wasn't the aircraft they were supposed to service, so he continued down the line, however he failed to allow proper clearance when passing this aircraft. Everything I've read (from legitimate sources) says the aircraft will be repaired, however US Airways and Airbus have been working out the details of who and how the repairs will be made. It is undergoing a C-check now in the hangar while they wait on repairs. Edited January 9, 2015 by Moose135 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora Mark Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Simple, but costly. Dang that is going to be a pricey repair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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