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Custom Decal or Dry Transfer Advice - Who To Go To?


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Gents,

I'm hoping to pick your brains about who to look at for custom decals - specifically for stencils in 1/48.

I have all the information on the stencils for the CP-140 I'm working on (font/size/locations), and am looking for someone who will be able to print the nearly 150 stencils on very thin carrier film, made in black, white, some in red, and the large majority in one of two very specific FS Grey colours.

Any recommendations or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any and all help,

Mark.

Edited by Aurora Mark
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Mark,

Are you needing those decals printed silk screen or will Alps print outs do? I can't really recommend anybody that does silk screen printing because I have never tried/had a need to produce my own decals so I don't know all the ins and outs of that. But I can recommend Joseph Osborne of Fireball Modelworks if you want them Alps printed. I have used Joseph several times before and he is very ecnomical. I think he only charged me $16 for all of the decals that I ordered plus shipping costs. He even did all the "artwork" for me, which according to his website he doesn't do any more. But if your stencils are "ready to go to the printers" that shouldn't be a problem for you.

Really it just comes down to how many decals that you need and how much you are willing to pay for them. I hope this helps!

best Regards,

Ken Bailey

(SonyKen)

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Ken,

Thank you. It is going to be approx 150 stencils that I want to have done. The big thing for me is crisp, neat stencils, with a thin carrier film (thin enough to disappear under a coat of future).

I know that most will be unable to be read in 1/48, however, I want them to be as close to legible (and the grey colours) as possible.

Cost on this one isn't a big concern - quality is what I'm looking for.

Cheers,

Mark

Edited by Aurora Mark
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If cost isn't a concern, look into dry transfers. I'm sure there are companies that do custom work (Archer, possibly?). The black stencils can be easily done with a laser printer. An ALPS can handle the white, but you'd probably have to back up the red with a white layer, so the underlying color won't show through. I had some done this way and the white was visible around the edges. That could've been due to my artwork, though. The only way you'd be able to get close to matching a specific gray would be with dry transfers or silkscreened decals. ALPS can get close, but will not be able to get an exact match.

Ben

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Mark,

Get hold of Bill Burns at CanMilAir. He can help you. He does ALPS printed decals. He helped me with the 1953 era 421 "Red Indian' Sqn Sabre decals. I supplied the McColl-Frontenac indian head logo from the Spitfire at the museum here in Ottawa and Bill did all the red / white nose band and tail markings. He then added the set he helped design for me into his decal inventory that is on sale to the general public. Once he finishes with you stencils (if you choose to go that route), he can add that sheet to his catalogue for future builders.

Hope this helps.

Mike

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Be very careful of ALPs. I Have one and have used it a lot. I love it and it does great with most stuff, but Grays is not one of the things it does well.

It prints with dry ribbons of CYMK and White. To create colors other than those it "mixes" small dots of the needed colors. With Grays, it is small dots of White and Black.

With very small images like text, it just does not work well. Unlike inkjet printing where the liquid ink blends together, the ALPs, being dry, just stays dots.

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You can not get accurate, solid gray tones on an ALPS printer; let alone any specific FS595 gray tone of your choice.

I designed ALPS-printed custom decals for a few years to build up my design skills. In my experience, "Cost is no concern" almost always meant "I have a budget of $75 for this project" ;-).

If cost is truly not a concern, look into finding a few more people interested in the subject and get them printed by a silkscreen decal printer. Even as few as 8-10 people may be all you need to get the project done at a somewhat reasonable cost per person; and you will have a lot of spares.

Edited by KursadA
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If cost isn't a concern, look into dry transfers. I'm sure there are companies that do custom work (Archer, possibly?). The black stencils can be easily done with a laser printer. An ALPS can handle the white, but you'd probably have to back up the red with a white layer, so the underlying color won't show through. I had some done this way and the white was visible around the edges. That could've been due to my artwork, though. The only way you'd be able to get close to matching a specific gray would be with dry transfers or silkscreened decals. ALPS can get close, but will not be able to get an exact match.

Ben

Ben, I had tried going with a very highly recommended group that do a fantastic job with stencils (dry transfers) for RC aircraft. Unfortunately, some of the "tests" I had sent them came back with negative results. It wasn't their fault at all, but rather, limitations with what they can do. Their software and stencil makers are geared towards much larger scales (with 1/24th being their smallest scale that can do great stencil work). They just came out looking like blurred lines. Following their advice after speaking with them, they suggested finding someone else who would be better suited for smaller scale work, which, hopefully I can find.

I didn't know that Archer could possibly make them, and I will approach them as well, but if you or anyone can suggest anyone who can make dry transfers, this is still the plan for them. If I can get them as dry transfers, then I certainly will go that route.

Mark,

Get hold of Bill Burns at CanMilAir. He can help you. He does ALPS printed decals. He helped me with the 1953 era 421 "Red Indian' Sqn Sabre decals. I supplied the McColl-Frontenac indian head logo from the Spitfire at the museum here in Ottawa and Bill did all the red / white nose band and tail markings. He then added the set he helped design for me into his decal inventory that is on sale to the general public. Once he finishes with you stencils (if you choose to go that route), he can add that sheet to his catalogue for future builders.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Hi Mike. When I write this, it is in NO WAY a slam at Bill or his fantastic work. I have used Bills decals in the past on a number of my projects, and they were absolutely fantastic for those projects. There was however a small problem with the greys on the 1/72 sheets for the CP-140 that is mentioned in the next post about limitations with ALSP printers.

Be very careful of ALPs. I Have one and have used it a lot. I love it and it does great with most stuff, but Grays is not one of the things it does well.

It prints with dry ribbons of CYMK and White. To create colors other than those it "mixes" small dots of the needed colors. With Grays, it is small dots of White and Black.

With very small images like text, it just does not work well. Unlike inkjet printing where the liquid ink blends together, the ALPs, being dry, just stays dots.

NFiler, the "speckle-decal" is something that I've come to really stay away from. And in tying it in with my comment above about decals from Bill, I want to emphasize that this is the only set that I've seen this problem on from him, while many other ALPS prints have done the same.

There is a fantastic builder in the Valley here who also has an ALPS printer, but we ran into the same problem with the same test stencils that went out for the dry transfers... the greys are dotted. As the majority of the stencils are either light grey (above on the aircraft) or dark grey (below the aircraft), this is something I want to avoid at all costs.

Now, two things have changed - the scale, and the stencils - since I started this search. The scale thing is actually up in the air, but suffice to say they'll be at least 1/48. The stencils themselves, well, the new Block III wings on this particular aircraft are very unique, and are also very visible. From across the hangar you can make some of them out, so there is a very real necessity for them.

I'm going to go back to the dry tranfer idea for a second - does anyone out there have any recommendations for companies that can make custom dry transfers? I've asked this before, but there was very little response with that.

But, if that option doesn't pan out, seems like silk-screened are the way to go for colours, but the detail, well, that might be another challenge to tackle.

Thanks guys for any and all help in advance.

Cheers,

Mark.

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Doing either dry transfers or silkscreen printed stuff as a one-off is going to be way expensive. Remember that about 98% of the cost for those methods is incurred before the first ink hits the paper.

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Jennings, and I say this with a great deal of respect for someone who is very knowledgeable in this hobby, but you posted a very similar comment the last time I asked about this. I do understand the costs associated with the dry transfers. Quotes are expected to be about $150-$250 for a one-off of dry transfers with over 150 stencils. But if I'm going to be putting the hours into this specific project that I plan on, and going as far as I can to get it as accurate as I can, I'm willing to save my pennies up for these, to make sure they look just right.

I am looking for someone who would be able to do this. I've sent an inquiry to Archer, and have sent more to Flightline Graphics and others. Never having ordered or used their products, it's going to be a bit of work to get things nailed down with them if I go that route. Thus far, the only ones I've worked with were the HobbyDecal DT's. But, getting in touch with them is nearly impossible right now to just order one of their sets, so I don't want to risk wasting my time with a custom inquirey.

As I said, a very good second option would be a very great quality, thin carrier filmed decal, that can be printed with the right colours, nice and crisp. I would be happy to go that route. But the limitations of ALPS printing do limit what is available for custom decal makers that I know of.

Do you have any suggestions that could help me find an answer to this riddle with either the dry transfers, or, a decal maker that can help me achieve what I'm looking for?

Respectfully,

Mark.

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Mark,

I have read through this thread and here I am offering what I think will be your best bet on getting your stencils printed. As many have mentioned here your best route to take for this project is to go with screen printed decals. Also since you have stated that cost is not a concern then your best bet would be Microscale/Superscale for this printing job. I know that the 1/48th and 1/72nd scale stencils that I have of theirs are all excellant. The Microscale side of that house has years of experience in producing decals for the Model Railroad enthusiast down to Half O scale or HO which is smaller than 1/72nd scale and I have seen some of these HO decals and the stencils/lettering on these decals is excellant. So they should be able to handle just about anything that you could throw at them as far as stencils is concerned. I hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Ken Bailey

(SonyKen)

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Ken,

Thank you kindly. I will certainly be getting in touch with them. There are quite a number of placards inside the aircraft that would be needed as well, and decals for these areas would be absolutely ideal.

I'm going to keep this thread updated as things go along, with who was able to help, and for what part, so that if anyone down the road has the same questions, hopefully they'll be able to find the answers here.

Cheers,

Mark.

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If you're looking for high detail stencils with correct colours and thin film, you need screen printed decals. I can screen print legible stencils with text less than half a millimeter in height, no problem, I just finished printing a set of 1:144 scale aircraft markings, with placards for a client. The problem is that you can not effectively print 1 sheet. The setup costs just don't make that practical. But if money is no object for the project, it's something to think about.

Edited by RiderFan
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Mark,

Your answer is emailing Greg at Draw Decals. (gdraw@drawdecals.com) His decals are computer printed on standard decal paper. The only drawback is they are solid film so you have to cut out each item prior to application. He can print one or as many sheets as you want and the price per sheet is about the same as any normal decal of the same size. I do some design work for Greg and I'll probably end up doing the artwork if we can work it out. Do you have the information needed to do this project? It also sounds like your in the middle of starting all over again and have not determined the scale you want. I have done artwork that included stenciling in 72nd scale that Greg has printed and is clearly readable.

Rather than bore everyone here maybe you can email me at n.sfiler@frontier(at)com.

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I would like to start out by thanking David at Canuck Models for his help. I regret that we are unable to find a solution that works with silk screened decals and his quality of work - due to the practicality of cost and minimal orders. That being said, he was absolutely fantastic to talk to, and he was more than happy to share some great advice and insight. David, thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions and numerous e-mails. Perhaps, if we're lucky, we'll someday see a 1/48 Scale CP-140 mainstream kit (as I'm sure we will never see one in 1/32), and the stencil info on the Block III's can come to help.

There has however been a great bit of news, in that I have found a great company out across the pond that can not only create these stencils as dry transfers (or rubdown decals), but also at a fantastic price as well. All said, the entire order of stencils in 5 colours came to an estimate of about £105.00. It may seem a bit much, but taking into account that there are a lot of stencils (112 white stencils on the propellers and spinners alone!), with about another 100 or so stencils after that... ...yeah, you Phantom guys have nothing on the Aurora when it comes to stencils... ...I was really blown away by this. Nigel at Flight Line Graphics is stepping out of his norm with this one, but the images of his work (with stencils being completely legible at 0.6 mm tall), and his willingness to work with me to match the colours up just right, and for a 1-off sheet, really surprised me and made my day.

That takes care of the exterior decals. For the interior decals (like emergency placards and other placards), I will be looking for someones help with an ALPS printer. There are quite a few groups, companies, and individuals out there who do some pretty fantastic work with the ALPS printing that lends itself perfectly to how I hope to employ the decals inside the aircraft, given that the large, LARGE majority of those are the peel-and-stick type of placards and stencils.

The instrument faces are going to be fun as well. I`ve approached Peter at Airscale with help for the gauges. Although he is unable to do custom single sheet orders, he was more than generous in offering to help with matching any decals he already produces with the gauges. This may very well help to take care quite a few. It's an approach for now at least.

So, yes, that's pretty much where it stands for now. Thanks guys for all the help thus far with this. I really appreciate it.

Nfiler, I'm going to send you an e-mail later on - it may not be sent until mid-Feb, but I would like to get in touch with you about what you offer. I think there may be some great potential for the gauges, as well as a few other areas as well.

Cheers,

Mark.

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