11bee Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Just read that Boeing's 747-8 has been selected by the AF for the presidential transport mission (Air Force One). Not entirely unexpected, they had to move somewhat quickly before the production line shuts down. I was personally rooting for the 777-300ER but I think the AF has issues with a twin-engine aircraft for this role. Given the gridlock in DC, I'm curious if this is going to move ahead or one party will use it for political ammo and try to kill it. If the current aircraft are so old they need replacement, what's the status with the E-4's? I believe that they have been in service much longer (and if not, still probably have many more flight hours / cycles), are they coming up for replacement as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Given the gridlock in DC, I'm curious if this is going to move ahead or one party will use it for political ammo and try to kill it. Does a bear poop in the woods? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Does a bear poop in the woods? Yeah, I kinda figured... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Given the gridlock in DC, I'm curious if this is going to move ahead or one party will use it for political ammo and try to kill it. Yes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yeah, the AF needs this like I need another hole in my head. F-ing waste of money. Get rid of all DV airlift. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Yes Didn't you hear about the new rules? It's no-holds-barred complete takeouts. Dennis Kucinich put his money on a kickass yoga squad while Mitch McConnell is letting his biggest donors design his strategy. One thing is for sure, Monday Night Smackdown has a new moniker. W C-SPAN W Edit: and it looks kinda like this: Edited January 28, 2015 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Us spotters here in the Pacific Northwest have been expecting this for a while now, especially now that Boeing has decreased production twice in the last year to stretch it out in order to accommodate the Air Force announcement. I'm excited to get pictures of the aircraft when they roll off of the line. The only thing is, the way things have been going with acquisition lately...The camera that I am going to do it with probably has not even been designed yet. Aaron Edited January 29, 2015 by strikeeagle801 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Us spotters here in the Pacific Northwest have been expecting this for a while now, especially now that Boeing has decreased production twice in the last year to stretch it out in order to accommodate the Air Force announcement. I'm excited to get pictures of the aircraft when they roll off of the line. The only thing is, the way things have been going with acquisition lately...The camera that I am going to do it with probably has not even been designed yet. Aaron They can't drag it out too long, BA is going to close the production line at some point in the not to far future. If they screw with it too much, I might finally get my wish and see a 777 in AF One colors. I'd love to see the AF order some additional 747-8's as E-4B replacements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parche Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 If the current aircraft are so old they need replacement, what's the status with the E-4's? I believe that they have been in service much longer (and if not, still probably have many more flight hours / cycles), are they coming up for replacement as well? Well, it has been a year and a half since I was there, but they were working towards a replacement. I would hope they got smart and followed the AF1 lead vice going to a twin engine airframe. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Given the gridlock in DC, I'm curious if this is going to move ahead or one party will use it for political ammo and try to kill it. Just to add to my earliers "yes" some people will actually do both -move it along while using it for ammo- like the esteemed senators from Vermont and Arizona have done with more recent purchases Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It had to be the 747-8, the Air Force would only take a four engine aircraft which limited the choices to the Airbus A380 , A340 and 747-8. Leaving aside that politically there was no way that an Airbus aircraft would be selected the A380 would be ruled out straight away on logistic grounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pin Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Does it have to be an airliner? As I recon AF1 is heavily modified anyway, could C5M, for example, be turned into presidential "business jet" ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 My wife suggested a C-17, but I doubt that would fly...Pun intended. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mungo1974 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Give the PotUS a damn Cessna, let the funds go to the front line units where its needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Units from which front lines? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Give the PotUS a damn Cessna, let the funds go to the front line units where its needed. The president is a front line unit. Visiting the heads of state and speaking to the people of foreign lands face to face is important in strengthening alliances and maintaining good relations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fellow Hobbyist Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Does it have to be an airliner? As I recon AF1 is heavily modified anyway, could C5M, for example, be turned into presidential "business jet" ? The modifications made to the 747-200 dealt with the need for aerial refuel capability, self-defense systems, and the communications equipment necessary for the VC-25 to serve as a command post (So they are more than "business jets" when one considers that fact). Considering the 747 was designed to carry people it would be ideally suited for conversion rather than extensively modifying a pair of C-5M from cargo haulers into planes like the VC-25. That would require heavy modification to the interior of the Super Galaxies which would likely cost much more than it would to convert the 747-8. Also the GEnx engines of the 747-8 are more efficient that the CF6 variants the C-5M are being equipped with. Finally the 747's would be new airframes compared to the Super Galaxies. Edited January 31, 2015 by Fellow Hobbyist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) The modifications made to the 747-200 dealt with the need for aerial refuel capability, self-defense systems, and the communications equipment necessary for the VC-25 to serve as a command post (So they are more than "business jets" when one considers that fact). Considering the 747 was designed to carry people it would be ideally suited for conversion rather than extensively modifying a pair of C-5M from cargo haulers into planes like the VC-25. That would require heavy modification to the interior of the Super Galaxies which would likely cost much more than it would to convert the 747-8. Also the GEnx engines of the 747-8 are more efficient that the CF6 variants the C-5M are being equipped with. Finally the 747's would be new airframes compared to the Super Galaxies. Well said. Before people get too in a twist about AF1 remember the 2 or 3 C-17s that accompany it. Thats where your rage boner needs to be directed, as the "entourage" that POTUS brings depends on POTUS. AF1 is a given, the rest is required but to what degree depends on POTUS. talking to people in the Secret Service and Yankee White Marines who have been around long enough to experience multiple POTUS's have told me that some prefer more "trappings" than others. This has been the source of a few books. Its hard to tell where business and pleasure meet and separate because POTUS is a 24 hour job, and even when you are "vacationing" you are never really off the clock. You also are not necessarily buying it for POTUS. equipment gets old and military personnel have to maintain it and the work tempo doesn't decrease with the age of the aircraft. HMX-1 people were not too happy with the new helicopters being canceled and POTUS "I've never had a helicopter I don't need a new one! LOL!!" Yeah thanks, you aren't the one who has to fix the old ones. People seem to think airplanes "happen" into the air. Edited January 31, 2015 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Well all that and the fact that the past has taught us to anticipate attacks on the POTUS in any fashion. We know that breaking up routine and having layers of security makes our nation safer. Aren't there at least 3 presidential limos wherever the POTUS goes in order to make planning an attack even harder? I don't want to skimp on protecting the leader of the free world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalo Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) If I were POTUS I would make a B-1B AF1. Everywhere I'd go I would do it with a Bone! How's that for power projection! America F-ya! Edited January 31, 2015 by gonzalo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Well said. Before people get too in a twist about AF1 remember the 2 or 3 C-17s that accompany it. Thats where your rage boner needs to be directed, as the "entourage" that POTUS brings depends on POTUS. AF1 is a given, the rest is required but to what degree depends on POTUS. talking to people in the Secret Service and Yankee White Marines who have been around long enough to experience multiple POTUS's have told me that some prefer more "trappings" than others. This has been the source of a few books. Its hard to tell where business and pleasure meet and separate because POTUS is a 24 hour job, and even when you are "vacationing" you are never really off the clock. You also are not necessarily buying it for POTUS. equipment gets old and military personnel have to maintain it and the work tempo doesn't decrease with the age of the aircraft. HMX-1 people were not too happy with the new helicopters being canceled and POTUS "I've never had a helicopter I don't need a new one! LOL!!" Yeah thanks, you aren't the one who has to fix the old ones. People seem to think airplanes "happen" into the air. Last time Obama came into Seattle, he "only" brought in one C-5M with him. It had one utility truck, three Suburban's, both Beasts and a Secret Service van (assault vehicle I'm guessing) in it. Well all that and the fact that the past has taught us to anticipate attacks on the POTUS in any fashion. We know that breaking up routine and having layers of security makes our nation safer. Aren't there at least 3 presidential limos wherever the POTUS goes in order to make planning an attack even harder? I don't want to skimp on protecting the leader of the free world. As far as I know, there is only two. Like I said above, when I saw the POTUS motorcade come into Seattle last year, there were only two off-loaded from a C-5M. You are correct though, there are always *at least* two travelling together so it is not know which he is actually travelling in. And when he is flying to/from the White House (like from Andrews AFB) there are three VH-3D's that fly a "shell game" so that any potential threat will be confused as to which is the real target. Aaron Edited February 2, 2015 by strikeeagle801 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Vote for me in 2016 and if I'm elected, I'll bring back the Tomcat, have it painted in Jolly Rogers colors and make that the Presidential jet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Forget the Tomcat, Trigger, I say we paint up the current VC-25s in Jolly Rogers markings! -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Does anybody how many hours are on the VC-25s? Are they even close to reach their service life? Sounds like Boeing is still trying to sell the 747-8.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Does anybody how many hours are on the VC-25s? Are they even close to reach their service life? Sounds like Boeing is still trying to sell the 747-8.... :tumble:/> Well yes, quite frankly, they are still trying to sell the -8. But, but I seriously doubt that this order is going to help them out much, and I'm sure that the VC-25's have seen some pretty serious use in the past 24 years. Also, from what I've seen, if nothing slows the process down, nothing derails the progress, and if they keep it on-time and on-budget, then the new aircraft are not due until at least 2021...Giving the VC-25's another six years of service and bringing them to their 30-year expected service life. Plus, as has been stated, the only viable option is the 747-8...There is no way in hell the Air Force was going to choose the A380, and two-engine aircraft were dismissed out of hand. So, the Air Force had to get while the gettin' was good. Had they waited very much longer, it is very likely that Boeing would have shut the line down. And honestly, try as they might, I seriously doubt that Boeing can get many more sales out of saying that the -8 is good enough for POTUS, so it should be good enough for you! Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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