RF-84F Thunderflash - Purpose for .50 cal Machine Guns

[roncl]

Hi Everyone,

The RF-84F Thunderflash carried two .50 cal machine guns in each wing outboard of the engine intakes (which I was not initially aware of). Once I found out, I presumed that they were for defensive purposes, but have come across a some information that states otherwise. In the book “Air Force Tac Recce Aircraft: NATO and Non-Aligned Western European Air Force Tactical Reconnaissance Aircraft of the Cold War” by Paul J. Wagner, it states: “The RF-84F Thunderflash initially retained four 0.50-in (12.7 mm) machine guns, which were relocated to the outer walls of the wing mounted engine intakes. The machine guns were not for defensive purposes, but intended to mark targets on pathfinder missions, but were eventually deleted.”

In the Aerofax Minigraph on the F-84F swept wing versions, it states: “According to AF records, six of seven ANG RF-84F units, by this time entering the twilight of their operational careers, were combat ready or close to combat ready during 1967. Most RF-84Fs, by now, had had their M3 gun systems removed and were totally optimized for the reconnaissance mission.”

Has anyone else heard of this information? It would appear that European RF-84F Thunderflashes kept their .50 cal wing armament throughout their service.

Any information that could be provided regarding this subject would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Ron

[roncl]

One other quote that I meant to add regarding the marking of targets with the .50 cal guns:

In another book that I am hoping to get my hands on (Tactical Reconnaissance in the Cold War by Doug Gordon), I found the following quote with regard to the use of the RF-84F machine guns: “We flew all photo phases, mid-air refueling from the KB-29 and marked targets with the .50 caliber guns. There were no distractions, as this was a bare base operation. We lived in tents and our sole job was to fly, fly, fly.”

It seems like later RF aircraft such as the RF-101 and RF-4 did not carry any armament right from the start.

I look forward to any information that anyone can provide.

Thanks.

Ron

[ikar]

You're right, there were no guns on the RF-101 or the RF-4. I'm surprised that the 84 carried any weapons. It could also be a F.A.C. aircraft, interesting. I know that recce's during WWII were armed. The 15th T.R.S., from what they told me, actually had its weapons pulled as their kill numbers started to climb.

Somewhere along the way recce squadrons adopted the phrase, "Alone, unarmed, and unafraid." or as some of the guys put it "Alone, unarmed, and scared s$$$less."

[Thorsten Wieking]

I wonder how .50 cal can be used for target marking.

Cheers

Thorsten

[ThePhantomTwo]

RF-84F's were used by our states two fighter squadrons(113th TFS and 163rd TFS) from August 1962 to May 1964 after our F-84F's were taken back by the USAF after the Berlin Crisis to bulk up active duty squadrons.They did retain the guns according to my father who was on the flight line during that period and the weapons guys who were friends with him,they used them to retain gun proficiency. They did retain cameras but we did not receive any of the need processing equipment.