Phantom F-4J to F-4N -help please

[jugjunkie]

I have no doubt that if I scroll through the last 2 years of posts I will find this info but to save time, I'll just ask again - What are the visual differences between the two? Thanks

Edited April 27, 2015 by jugjunkie

[Jennings]

The F-4B has thin wings, skinny wheels/tires (and thus different main struts), early J79 engines, and initially no slatted stabs. The B has the IR 'donkey dick' under the nose, and the cockpit (mainly the rear) is very different.

If you're thinking about a conversion, it's one of the more major conversions you could imagine.

[MattJCYKZ]

Hi,

It's not such a big deal to do, it'll just take a bit of work with reference and building. If you take a few minutes on google you'll find quite a few models that are very successful conversions from the "j" standard to a "b" or "n". In the end it really depends on what level of fidelity you want to achieve. Generally here are a few things to take note of....

The cockpits (in particular the rear) are very different, but an aires replacement will take care of that

The J's thick inboard wing section (a modification of the earlier wing to accommodate wider tires) is not present on the B or N. It's not too much work to sand it away as long as you are careful.

The exhaust nozzles on the B or N are the earlier j-79 versions and are shorter and look visibly different. Aires and Eduard offer direct replacements. You should note that you may want to add a small strip to the aft fuselage around where the nozzles join the fuselage. The aft fuselage was cut back slightly to accommodate the longer late exhausts. It's only a small difference though and not too noticeable.

The housing for the IR seeker under the nose needs to be added. You may have to look around for one of those, borrow from another kit, or just scratch make your own.

The narrow main gear tires need to be used on a B or N. Depending on the kit you're using, you may have both available in kit. Otherwise there are several aftermarket drop in replacements available.

The F-4 n sports the slotted stabilizer of all late F-4s, but if you want to make a B, it may or may not depending.

Good references are key. After building several f-4s, including a J to B conversion, I've found that along with the major mods, there are so many small variations that finding a picture of a subject you like and taking note of all the little features is the best way to go. It really isn't hard to do, just be patient and have fun with it!

-MattJCYKZ

[brownstone322]

I have no doubt that if I scroll through the last 2 years of posts I will find this info but to save time, I'll just ask again - What are the visual differences between the two? Thanks

In addition to what everyone has already said, the F-4N has prominent ECM fairings on the intake shoulders (ALQ-126?). These fairings also appeared on the F-4S (maybe on some F-4Js), but note that the fairings on the F-4N are longer than on the F-4J/S. (Now that I think about it, you need to check for all the various ECM/RWR antennas, especially on the fin tip and under the radome.)

You didn't mention scale, but now that Academy makes a proper F-4B in 1/48 with thin wings/wheels and lotsa optional parts on the sprues, I'd just go that route. Just my opinion.

Edited April 27, 2015 by brownstone322

[Grey Ghost 531]

Depends on how accurate you want to be. If you just want to have a jet to put "N" specific markings onto, adding the donkey dick and intake antennae will fool 90% of modelers and 99.99% of the general public. If you want a more or less accurate N, get an N kit. It will save you oodles of time. The rear cockpit will still be inaccurate without work as I don't think any kit gets it right. I've never seen the rear 'scope done correctly. It stuck up out of a pedestal off of the cockpit floor and wasn't attached to the rear control panel at all.

[jugjunkie]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my query it is appreciated. I am taking Grey Ghost 531's route in that I am Building an Italeri J (Academy kit is too rich for me) and I know that the wing issue is really just too much effort to correct so I am adding the Donkey dick, the correct burner cans and wheels and I shall research the antenna's and make them right. You guys all mentioned a big difference in the rear cockpit, my question is, are these differences noticeable and are they interior or exterior differences?

[Grey Ghost 531]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my query it is appreciated. I am taking Grey Ghost 531's route in that I am Building an Italeri J (Academy kit is too rich for me) and I know that the wing issue is really just too much effort to correct so I am adding the Donkey dick, the correct burner cans and wheels and I shall research the antenna's and make them right. You guys all mentioned a big difference in the rear cockpit, my question is, are these differences noticeable and are they interior or exterior differences?

Not really, unless you're using the cockpit as a focal point. I was a radar tech on Ns so most of the gear back there was ours, but its layout is hazy even to me since I haven't sat in one for over 30 years. The biggest visual issue would be the lack of a console on the right side. The rest is just detail issues on black boxes.

[jpk]

One other added thing. The main gear doors of the F-4B/N, they are flat without the bulge of the later models.

[11bee]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my query it is appreciated. I am taking Grey Ghost 531's route in that I am Building an Italeri J (Academy kit is too rich for me) and I know that the wing issue is really just too much effort to correct so I am adding the Donkey dick, the correct burner cans and wheels and I shall research the antenna's and make them right. You guys all mentioned a big difference in the rear cockpit, my question is, are these differences noticeable and are they interior or exterior differences?

Lots of respect for this approach. Being a slacker by nature, I would have definitely opted for the Academy kit. I hope you'll start a thread on the In-Progress forum, I'd love to follow along with your build.

Good luck!

[Gene K]

... I know that the wing issue is really just too much effort to correct ... are these (cockpit) differences noticeable...?

If you're satisfied overlooking a major external difference like the wings, seems you wouldn't/shouldn't be concerned with any cockpit differences (all internal). :D/>/>

You may find this interesting in your research.

Gene K

Edited April 29, 2015 by Gene K

[Grey Ghost 531]

Just to show that I walk the slacker walk, here's a picture of the Monogram 1/48 F-4C with F-4N markings. All I did to the exterior was to add the ECM antennae to the intakes and maybe remove an arrowhead reinforcement from the stabs. [edit: nope, I see the arrowhead is still there] This was done when I still sat in the cockpit from time to time (and the Monogram kit was new) so the rear cockpit was modified to be somewhat close to the prototype. Unfortunately, the model was lost when my folk's house burned down about 25 years ago. I had to find a centerline tank because the C kit didn't have one, I think I wrote to Monogram and claimed I had the J kit and didn't get the tank. I also scratched the fairing on the front of the vertical stab.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Grey Ghost 531