Adam Baker Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I've been interested in building an S-3 Viking for quite some time, and I received a set of decals recently to do an S-3B, so its rekindled my interest. So b/c of this, I've got a few questions I hope people might be able to help me w/. I know there are 3 1/48 Viking kits available, AMT, Italeri & ESCI, and its my understanding that all of these are just the same kit reboxed by different mfg's, correct? They are all also -3A models, instead of the -3B, right? Looking at the boxes for each, the AMT & ESCI kits say specifically -3A. However, there appear to be 2 Italeri boxings. One is for an -3A Shadow, and then another box is labeled as S-3A/B, so I'm just making sure I'm not confusing anything. I found an article on Hyperscale that explains how to update the -3A to a -3B, which is what I'm planning on doing, but I was wondering if the OIF Update set that Wolfpack has, will take care of this, or is there additional work that will be required to get a correct -3B. How does the stock cockpit look, and would it be correct for a -3B, or just the stock -3A? I know that Wolfpack, Blackbox, and Goffy all have/had cockpits for this kit. Only differences I can tell right off hand are the Wolfpack & Blackbox pit's show just the pilot/copilot areas, where as the Goffy pit also includes the 2 rear seats. I wouldn't mind having the rear area too, but if the only way to view them is through the tiny windows on the sides of the fuselage, then it's not worth it to me. Is there ever a time that the ejection panels would be open? I'm assuming they would only be open during maintenance? I would prefer to build mine with the wings folded, and I know that wing fold kits are available from Wolfpack, and Paragon, but the Paragon set appears to be about as rear as hen's teeth at this point. The Wolfpack wing fold only appears to include the fold for the wings but not the vertical stabilizer, is the Paragon set the same, or does it include the vertical stabilizer too? How difficult would it be to scratch build convincing wing folds? I've got some scratch building experience, but I've never attempted wing folds, so I'm not sure what all would be involved. I also know that Goffy did a bomb bay/ landing gear bay set. Is this a decent set, and is it worth the money? Or would I be better off sticking with the stock parts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doupnik Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Adam All of the 1/48th S-3 kits are the same, and they are S-3As.I haven't used the Wolfpack set, but I think it has everything to update the S-3 kit to a S-3B. TwoMikes did a great update set as well, I have a couple of them, but they are OOP. The pit is pretty basic, but with the tinted glass, you don't see a lot anyway. There is a True Details cockpit that is pretty cheap and looks better. mason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks Mason. I figured the kits were all exactly the same, but I wanted to make sure. I just looked up the TD pit, and it's a lot cheaper than the others, so I'll definitely keep that one in mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The ES-3A is the same kit with extra parts (tooled by AMT after they bought ESCI) for the ELINT bird. The best way to choose among the kits is the canopy color. On at least some of the AMT boxings, the "clear" part is so darkly tinted it's essentially just slightly translucent black plastic. Not realistic at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks for that warning Jennings. I knew the kits would come w/ a tinted canopy, but didn't know that there was a difference in the amount of tint. Do you have any idea which ones to avoid? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think the AMT boxings were the bad apples. The original 1970s Ecsi kits were great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doupnik Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) The ES-3 kit is a good starting point, it has a refueling pod, and like Jennings said, it has all of the parts from the S-3. Squadron has a vac formed canopy for the S-3 if you end up with a overly dark canopy. mason Edited May 9, 2015 by doupnik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Yea, I had been thinking about going ahead & getting the Squadron canopy, and tinting it myself, and then it wouldn't be an issue at all. Nice thing is my birthday is coming up, so I htink I'm going to put gift certificates to Sprue Brothers on my list, so I can build this thing. Sprue Brothers has both the Italeri S-3A, and the ES-3A, but the ES-3A kit is 25 dollars more expensive than the regular S-3A kit. I think I'll just look at getting the regular S-3 kit. Edited May 9, 2015 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nybadger Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I am currently finishing the old ESCI version and have started the Italeri one. Between the two, I believe I have most of the aftermarket for the S-3. The only difference between the two kits are the decals, the color of plastic (white v grey) and the tinted canopy. Jennings is correct about the tint of the canopy on the ESCI kit, its almost black. The newer one is better, but I still got the squadron one as not the entire window is tinted, only the side windows have the dark tinting. The cockpit in each kit is pretty plain with both represented with decals. I used Edwards detail set for the first and have the True details set for the second. I like the True details the best of the options, but the Wolfpack one seems nice too, but costs a lot more. I am pretty sure the Goffy pit is no longer available, but was very detailed. I used the Two Mikes update set for the first kit and the Wolfpack update for the second. Both have pluses and minuses, but if I had to get one more of either I would use the Two Mikes. The differences between the two are as follows: The Two Mikes is smaller and easier to install and has the mad boom plug that all S-3B's have. The Wolfpack lacks the plug, but has very nice outer weapons pylons instead. The biggest drawback to the Wolfpack set is the large amount of resin that will have to be removed if there is any chance it will not be a tail sitter, but it is more easily available. I have the Paragon wing folds for the first kit and Paragon flaps and slats for the second. For the wing folds, you use the kit wings and remove the areas around the folding areas, replacing it with resin parts. The Paragon folds also has the tail fold which I am not using (traded it away a while ago). From what I have seen, the Wolfpack wing folds replace the kit wings with total resin parts. Some other aftermarket items available are metal landing gear from sac, resin wheels from Royal Resin (these are very nice and are bulged), Edward photoetch, engine covers ( I believe by Steel Beach), and Sierra Hotel engine inlets. I would recommend the inlets as the joint on the kit engines are a pain to remove, replacement inlets are one piece, and they are actually in stock. I also put the Goffy wheel bays and weapons bay in the first jet and if I had to do it again I would have separated the weapons bay from the wheel bays and just used the wheel bays. These are nice, but not a whole lot is visible once the gear and doors are on. Depending on what aftermarket you choose to go with, make sure you put enough weight in the front as it it a tail-sitter. Hope some of this helps, and if I can be of any future help, just let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Good stuff, Badger! Thanks for your input and comparisons. I'm wanting to do the aircraft that NASA has/had. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I built the ESCI kit when it came out and thought it was great. Now that I look back I think the panel lines are a bit heavy but it was ahead of its time with engraved lines. Still looks okay though. I also have the US-3 COD version and looking forward to that but I am worried about the decals. Maybe I can cobble what I need form the various Superscale sheets out there. As for the canopy, it was tinted and not too heavily. The AMT version sucked in that it was almost black. That was the ES-3A version. The re-released Italeri S-3A version, I think had two canopies in the box, one tinted and one clear or at least that is what I have heard. I believe the True Details set is a rebox of the original KMC set which makes sense since Squadron bought out the rights to the KMC line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks for the input guys, this really helps a lot. I think I'm going to go w/ the Italeri S-3 kit. I'd love to get the Shadow, but w/ it being 20-25 dollars more, thats money I can spend on other stuff. I think I'll go with the True Details pit instead of the Wolfpack. It seems to be a draw between the TwoMikes & WP update sets, but since the TwoMikes set is out of production, it limits my options. As mentioned, I want to do the wings folded, and would greatly prefer to get the Paragon set, since it included the vertical stab fold, but those appear to be very hard to find now since it is out of production as well, so I'll just make do with the WP set. I'm also going to look at the various Eduard sets, and figure out which ones to go with there. Obviously I won't need the interior set since I'll be going w/ the True Details pit, but I think the rest of the sets could be useful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 ...but it was ahead of its time with engraved lines. Kids today.... :) It was far from ahead of its time, even in the ancient mists of pre-history of the late 1970s! Kits with really amazing engraved detail had already been around for many, many years when this kit came out... :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Kids today.... :)/> It was far from ahead of its time, even in the ancient mists of pre-history of the late 1970s! Kits with really amazing engraved detail had already been around for many, many years when this kit came out... :)/> Kid? I wish :) What I meant was that at the time Hasegawa, Monogram and the like were all raised lines with not too many companies producing kits with engraved lines. Hmm now that I think about it, when did Monogram's Su-25 come out? I know it was made in Korea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Monogram Su-25 was around 1991. The Su-25 wasn't seen in the west in public until around 1988 (in Czechoslovakia). The ESCI kits had engraved panel lines years before that. I built the S-3 when I was in high school in the late 70s. Edited May 9, 2015 by Jennings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nybadger Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 FYI there is a Paragon wing and tail fold set on eBay currently if you want to give it a shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Can you send me a link? Haven't found it so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Be warned there are also some bad copies of the paragon stuff out there on ebay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Oh yea, lots of bad copies on there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nybadger Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 FYI there is a Paragon wing and tail fold set on eBay currently if you want to give it a shot. Sorry, seems to have ended same day it was listed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paragon-1-48-S-3-Viking-Wing-Fin-Fold-Mechanisms-4866-/121647210102?nma=true&si=PzhrFO7qTvSJtUCIo3R%252FHbOuS7Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I've got a couple of the wingfold sets, I don't mind giving up the tail section fold if you're still looking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Wow, a great price on it, no wonder it went quick. Thanks for letting me know though. Sorry, seems to have ended same day it was listed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paragon-1-48-S-3-Viking-Wing-Fin-Fold-Mechanisms-4866-/121647210102?nma=true&si=PzhrFO7qTvSJtUCIo3R%252FHbOuS7Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 That would be awesome, pm me w/ what you'd like to have for the tail section. I've got a couple of the wingfold sets, I don't mind giving up the tail section fold if you're still looking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) I know that the AMT kits were mentioned as having very dark canopies, but other than that, is there any difference between those & the newer Italeri releases? I've found an AMT ES-3A Shadow kit for a really low price on ebay that I'm seriously considering pulling the trigger on, but wanted to ask before doing it. I'm also assuming that the Shadow kit is exactly the same as the regular S-3A kit, except for the addition of the parts that fit along the top of the fuselage? Edited May 14, 2015 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No, it's all exactly the same plastic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Great, thank you very much for the help Jennings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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