Airfixer Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Apparently, KH's 32nd scale F11F has been axed for now. It has yet to be confirmed via the "official" Kitty Hawk outlets, but I'd deem it a mere formality. http://forum.largesc...=53326&p=680144 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It was confirmed by the owner, that is good enough for me although I am saddened by it: Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chriss7606 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This is why I don't put too much stock in when manufacturers stick up a CAD drawing and say, "This is what we're going to do". Kitty Hawk had a lot on its plate for 2015, much of which has yet to see actual plastic. The 1/48 F2H-2P is allegedly dead as well according to the post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 In any case, sad news for those among us who had high hopes for a new-tool, state-of-the-art Tiger - including myself. Hope dies last; particularly, after having tackled two of those "not so" FM Tigers. Just wondering whether a quarterscale (and less pricey) F11F would have fared better. Or simply not popular enough... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I find it interesting that the distributors dictated that decision. While distributors may know a lot about the hobby, how in the world do they know if something will sell or not? It's like book publishers. How many rejected J.K. Rowlings and now look like complete idiots? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I find it interesting that the distributors dictated that decision. While distributors may know a lot about the hobby, how in the world do they know if something will sell or not? Without the distributors buying stock to sell, it didn't make business sense to the owner. So, he doesn't want to sit on stock he can't move... his money, his decision. I was hoping for the Tiger myself but I won't blame him. The best I can do is try to convince him to simply delay the release rather than cancel it outright. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chriss7606 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I was really hoping for this one too. With the "best" so far being FM, I would like to see someone do a main-stream injection molded kit. The FM kit can be built, but it's neither easy or fun (modifying the Lindberg kit isn't either). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Thats surprising that distributers are driving the decision. I go to Japan very frequently and hang with alot of Japanese modelers and they have zero interest in Luftwaffe subjects. In fact you rarely if ever see a 190 or 109 over there, I know of an instance of a Revell 32nd Uhu that was on a shelf in a mainstream store cheap at least for 2-1/2 years. That said, USN subjects are very popular over there, Tomcats especially, so this being cancelled because of projected low sales is odd. I use Japan because they are probably the biggest modeling community. If nothing else make it a Blue Angels boxing and it will sell, but I'm not sure we are getting the entire story.....the Bronco and F-86D could be performing very poorly. I'm the only one of the modelers I know that had an interest in the 86 and I know none of us wanted the Bronco, in fact I know someone that won one and sold it quick for $40....maybe a small sample, but my point is theres alot more obscure stuff being made than a Tiger. Edited May 17, 2015 by Brian 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Thats surprising that distributers are driving the decision. I go to Japan very frequently and hang with alot of Japanese modelers and they have zero interest in Luftwaffe subjects. In fact you rarely if ever see a 190 or 109 over there, I know of an instance of a Revell 32nd Uhu that was on a shelf in a mainstream store cheap at least for 2-1/2 years. That said, USN subjects are very popular over there, Tomcats especially, so this being cancelled because of projected low sales is odd. I use Japan because they are probably the biggest modeling community. If nothing else make it a Blue Angels boxing and it will sell, but I'm not sure we are getting the entire story.....the Bronco and F-86D could be performing very poorly. I'm the only one of the modelers I know that had an interest in the 86 and I know none of us wanted the Bronco, in fact I know someone that won one and sold it quick for $40....maybe a small sample, but my point is theres alot more obscure stuff being made than a Tiger. I think you probably hit the nail on the head. There is more to this than what we know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sierrascale Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Having lived in Japan for three years and gotten to know a number of modelers, hobby shop owners and aircraft photographers there, here are my observations: - tiny houses/apartments are the norm with limited hobby space, so 1/72 is very popular, as is 1/144. - as Brian said, post war is much more popular than other eras; WWII is nowhere near its popularity here. - I would have to say USN, followed by USAF and JASDF/JMSDF would be at the top. - Sci-fi, Gundams and such, are even higher on the scale than historical aircraft; there are hobby shops devoted this genre. - China is somewhat similar, though it doesn't have the extensive post-war modeling industry and tradition that Japan has. - in any case 1/32 would just not be appealing there; I think KH is just trying to maximized per-box profit with this line, which is probably only a US thing. bob sierrascale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RT Van Zandt II Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 32nd is a money loser for the most part too big ( take up 4X shelf space as 48th kits), too pricey ($80 to $200 dollars), need lots of AM or scratchbuiling (another $50 to $200 dollars if made , most guys don't have the patience to do all the sctratchbuilding as necessary.) to really bringup one of these big kits to 48th standard. Only reason WNWkits sell is the WWi planes were so small anyway they for the most part are no bigger then most medium sized 48th kits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 32nd is a money loser for the most part too big ( take up 4X shelf space as 48th kits) Might want to check your math. 1/32 is 1.5x 1/48. Conversely, 1/48 is .6666x 1/32. A 1/64 scale kit would take up 1/4 the shelf space of a 1/32 kit. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 32nd is a money loser for the most part... I must respectfully posit that you were dropped on your head as a baby. The number of 1:32 kits on the market has never been greater. It's a Golden Age for us large scale modellers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Without the distributors buying stock to sell, it didn't make business sense to the owner. Who is "the owner" you are trying to convince? The US rep, Glen? Gene K Edited May 17, 2015 by Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Who is "the owner" you are trying to convince? The US rep, Glen? Glen has the most invested, so I call him the owner. There are others involved as well. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 USN subjects are very popular over there, Tomcats especially If that is true, wonder why there isn't a new tooled Tomcat from Tamiya or hasegawa :unsure: I would like to think that a new tooled tomcat would sell well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If that is true, wonder why there isn't a new tooled Tomcat from Tamiya or hasegawa :unsure:/> I would like to think that a new tooled tomcat would sell well. Because 72nd is extremely popular over there and FineMolds just released the mother of all 72nd scale F-14s.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Having lived in Japan for three years and gotten to know a number of modelers, hobby shop owners and aircraft photographers there, here are my observations: - tiny houses/apartments are the norm with limited hobby space, so 1/72 is very popular, as is 1/144. - as Brian said, post war is much more popular than other eras; WWII is nowhere near its popularity here. - I would have to say USN, followed by USAF and JASDF/JMSDF would be at the top. - Sci-fi, Gundams and such, are even higher on the scale than historical aircraft; there are hobby shops devoted this genre. - China is somewhat similar, though it doesn't have the extensive post-war modeling industry and tradition that Japan has. - in any case 1/32 would just not be appealing there; I think KH is just trying to maximized per-box profit with this line, which is probably only a US thing. bob sierrascale Well I haven't lived in Japan at least not technically but I spend in the order of two nights a week there and have for the last 4 years. Here is some photos from Volks Osaka one of the big chains in Japan showing just the Luftwaffe stuff in 32nd and 48th. It is typical of the bigger stores in Tokyo and Osaka and as you can see its popular. Volks sort their kits by country rather than scale but I think you will see just how popular 32nd Luftwaffe is there. Most of the big comps have numerous 32nd Luftwaffe generally outnumbering all comers except Japanese. So a search from the JMC..the Joyful Modellers comp. Given Hasegawa,Tamiya and Zoukie all have large 32nd ranges its pretty clear just how popular 32nd is in Japan. A walk through Joshin in Osaka will show at least 40 32nd kits that have been winners or invited to display there kits from the big Tamiya comp in Japan. Sorry but Tokyo is the same with extensive 32nd kits for sale at Volks..Rainbow ten...Tamiya stores and Yellow submarine. Having been to several comps plus visited most every major store in the three biggest cities in Japan 32nd is as popular as anywhere in the world. Edited May 18, 2015 by dehowie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aweber stoofan Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) See below. Edited May 18, 2015 by aweber stoofan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aweber stoofan Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Among the Naval Aviation builders this kit would have sold big time. The amount in my view would depend on the quality of the kit. If the fit was good,overall shape and dimensions were in "the ballpark " right,that would make it a fun kit to build and a lot of us would build multiples of it for that reason alone. There are a lot of colorful paint schemes to go with, so there are numerous subjects to build. But if the builder has to make major corrections to the dimensions and shape, if there's a fight to the finish with the fit of the kit, then all bets are off. The quality is a much bigger factor than the subject matter. These guys have produced some kits recently that are just a pain in the butt to build,mainly because of fit issues, but they have made some gross errors in airframe features as well. This is not a good combination to deal with when you would like to build numerous examples of the kit. When your relieved just to finish up the first one,your motivation to break open another kit is pretty much gone. I know they could sell a lot of these but they would have to do a great job of producing it,not just quickly puking out some rough stuff out of cad and building a model around it. It's up to them how it sells. People I know and myself would love to buy multiples of this subject, 1/48 or 1/32 doesn't enter into it that much. Producing a really fun kit to build or a piece of crap really,really does. Edited May 18, 2015 by aweber stoofan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Who is "the owner" you are trying to convince? The US rep, Glen? I see that you asked elsewhere if Glen had the power and authority to claim he can resurrect the project and he responded that he did. Sounds like an owner (or majority owner at least) to me! Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 My 2 cents. A 1/32 scale Tiger was a bad move to begin with. It should have been 1/48 from the start. Did the "partners" just think a 1/32 Tiger would not sell.....or a Tiger regardless of scale won't sell? And it begs the question, if they believe a Tiger won't sell regardless of scale how did they arrive at the thought that the Cougar would sell or even the Banshee? The Banshee is about as obscure a USN aircraft gets. At least the Tiger flew with the Blue Angels for a decade or more and really became the face of the team for many from our youth. I think there's some BS going on. No way a Tiger would be less popular than a Cougar, or a Banshee for that matter. While I'm happy KH made the two Cougar kits, I bought them both, I cannot be convinced the other two are more marketable than a Tiger. I think the 1/32 Bronco was a bad move as well. Would have sold oodles in 1/48. The F-86D, now that was a smart decision, as there's already a really nice kit in 1/48. The T-6 Texan was also a good choice for 1/32. Another thing, the Tiger in either scale would be easy to produce as the were only the two versions and they were virtually the same except for a few simple things. Look at their Cougar and it's pretty much a puzzle on how to assemble it without screwing it up. And KH needs to update their web page. It doesn't have the Cougars or the OV-10A on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I think there's some BS going on. No way a Tiger would be less popular than a Cougar, or a Banshee for that matter. While I'm happy KH made the two Cougar kits, I bought them both, I cannot be convinced the other two are more marketable than a Tiger. Could it be that, after reviewing the sales results of the Cougar and Banshee, the distributors are reluctant to stock another kit which they can't sell? Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Could it be that, after reviewing the sales results of the Cougar and Banshee, the distributors are reluctant to stock another kit which they can't sell? Regards, not to mention the Foxbat and the F-94 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I'm sure their F-94 was a huge seller. Must have sold tens of them. Wow, a souped up T-33. How long was it in front line service, like two weeks? Well KH can do what they want but a 1/48 Tiger is a sure fire winner and would make FAR more sense in that it would fit right in with their Cougar and hopefully their "forever on its way" Banshee as well as other USN 1950's kit manufacturers like the Monogram Panther. I've bought four FM Tigers over the years and three of them AFTER they were OOP. So I paid collector prices for the last three and the first one wasn't cheap either. Sold one, built one and threw one away because the molding was so bad. I've hung onto one. And, not to knock KH. While I'm not too interested in much of their line, 1950's and 60's USN aircraft are my interest, I'm glad KH takes chances on stuff. I just don't think a Tiger is as much of a risk as some of their other releases have been. Edited May 18, 2015 by jpk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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