B.Sin Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, andrew.deboer said: Holy thread pollution, Batman! In in other news, Tamiya will release a 1/48 F-14D Tomcat later this year, much hotter on the heels of their F-14A than most dared to hope, given their lack of follow-on variants after their brilliant F-16C. No word yet on the size of the box it will come in... and nobody cares anyway. Word. Now we're arguing about box size and shipping cost? All I care about is the quality of the plastic inside. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, shion said: No, it's geometry. These are Hasegawa sprues for the boxing named Aircraft Weapons E U.S. AAM & Target Pod They are the content of a 29.2 x 21.1 x 5.2 cm box. Now, go ask AMK which and how many single-piece missiles they can put in the same space. Shion, You can ask me - feel free. The same number possibly even more depending on how you package the weapons. Next question ask me one on sport hahaha. Edited April 10, 2018 by Martin @ AMK Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 59 minutes ago, jonbryon said: This non issue is a giant red herring. Jon Fixed it for you Jon :p Haha. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, shion said: Of course it has an effect on box size. The more space you need, the thicker the box become. So, 3 solutions for manufacturer: A- give less. B- choose a bigger box. C- fill it as much it's possible. It's the reason why Kinetic give less missile pylons in their Su-33. It's one reason why GWH F-15 boxes are 20% bigger than Hasegawa ones. Hi, A - Actually we usually give at least an extra weapon type in each kit to ensure that any damage to fins is minimal (feedback form previous kit), a "sacrificial lamb" if you will. A2 - We normally give more weapons than you need by a long shot B - Not really. As seen above our kit boxes are small compared to similar sized models. Just depends really. C - This would cause parts damage so we tend not to do that either. Cheers. Edited April 10, 2018 by Martin @ AMK Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Martin @ AMK Models said: Hi, A - Actually we usually give at least an extra weapon type in each kit to ensure that any damage to fins is minimal (feedback form previous kit), a "sacrificial lamb" if you will. A2 - We normally give more weapons than you need by a long shot B - Not really. As seen above our kit boxes are small compared to similar sized models. Just depends really. C - This would cause parts damage so we tend not to do that either. Cheers. Martin, always good to hear from you and Sio. Looking forward to your F-14 kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anj4de Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) On 10.2.2018 at 6:38 PM, Space Tiger Hobbes said: Hello all The discussion took a very odd path IMHO...neither one piece vs multi piece weapons not the box size are any criteria for or against a certain model...accuracy is what counts! I think AMK is in the position to come up with an F-14 that might satisfy even people with advanced AMS right out of the box. The new Tamiya -D will be beautiful and building it will be a breeze but it will also leave a lot of room for improvements... I have built their -A almost out of the box and still (I do not have AMS) was swapping the seats for Verlinden ones and installed Edurad wheels and "Master" probes. If AMK takes a very close look at their competitor ( I am sure they do) they will spot those areas and address them. Important for me would be a cockpit that does not come as a pan without side wall details. Rather break it up in parts and add those details that are so far only available in resin. Then add seat belts to the seats (like Monogran did in the 70ties) and there will be no need for a resin pit. cheers Uwe Edited April 10, 2018 by anj4de Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Matt Foley Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Just release it already and get it on the shelves...I plan to purchase both of them anyhow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, Mr Matt Foley said: Just release it already and get it on the shelves... This ^^^. I couldn't care less about box size, shape, color, or artwork. Put it in a round box for all I care. And frankly I've personally had more then my share of dangling carrots in the form of almost 3 years of CAD, mold, and other pictures. There must be a targeted release date (Month? Year? Century? Millennia?) at this (soon to be the third anniversary of "working" on this project)? Heck even a ballpark idea (i.e. Fall 2018, Winter 2019)? So, why the suspense? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Still in No Rush Just want a great Kit when it's released. Me I love one piece weapons. Just a little light sanding on mold lines. Then add paint, decals, weathering. Last thing put in place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Martin @ AMK Models said: Fixed it for you Jon :p Haha. Editing quotes from other users to reinforce your position is just bad form. Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonbryon Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 35 minutes ago, CF104 said: Editing quotes from other users to reinforce your position is just bad form. Cheers, John In this case, though, it more emphatically states what I meant, which is obvious to anyone reading the exchange. Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sio Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Martin @ AMK Models said: Fixed it for you :p How very true. No need to glue to halves together ,', Little to no seam line to clean up (see below) Little chance of misaligning the halves Easier to paint on the sprue They look awesome ++ Because it's possible Better weight adds to better sit / look and feel for me at least As long as the mold is engineered well and the machine taking the tools is of decent quality we don't have this issue. We aim to make our tools some of the best in the business. Plastic waste is minimal when making a model kit. In the grand scheme of things the "wastage" (which adds to the weight for a better sit on pylons to my eye) is negligible. This is true but also depends on how the tool / mold is made. But when we own the factory and can leave the machine running all the time, it is actually an efficient use of the machine when the maths is done versus turning off each night. No sink marks. Hope that helps. I am sure that Sio will be able to chip in much more here. Once I get back from the factory and I have a better oversight of the process of the next it then I am willing to share much more from an even better perspective. Happy to answer any more questions. If I can't, as I said, Sio probably will. Sure! I have to! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) Sio, please keep up the good work, looking forward to the F-14, and the MiG-25! Grasshopper. Edited April 10, 2018 by B.Sin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sio Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 26 minutes ago, B.Sin said: Sio, please keep up the good work, looking forward to the F-14, and the MiG-25! Grasshopper. Sure! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Great picture jon! Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Martin @ AMK Models said: Great picture jon! Thank you. The hinge looks okay to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solher1 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 After seeing that photo, I believe by the time you apply the paint and weather the model, the panels lines will look more like the real aircraft. I can clearly see the panels lines on that photo. I will keep my pre ordered kits and I also probably buy the Tamiya kit too. I believe AMK should do a F-111 series or a Su-15 instead of the Mig-25 now that ICM is doing it. There is slim chance the Flagon is going to be done by another company, I am not sure about the F-111. Keep the good job AMK. Juan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sio Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Laurent said: Lets take single-piece ordnance. This was introduced by GWH on the 1/48 MiG-29s. AMK made it systematic. Laurent Appreciated you always have "comments" about every AMK kit. But how come, your "comments" are exactly someone (yor boss?) was talking to me, when we were developing Super Etendard at the same time? All these "comments", or mainly Cons, are all just cost saving issue. Is that right? 10 hours ago, Laurent said: There are pros and cons to everything. About plastics, I think I am quite also professional to talk, and I would like to discuss with you guys. Is this also right? Let's see some of my opinions below. It is NOT just using injection machines with SERVO motor, which is just an actuator of injection machine. 10 hours ago, Laurent said: Pros: - no need to align the missile fins - almost no seam when the mould parts are propely aligned Cons: - terrible steps if the mould parts aren't properly aligned (tooling wear) - plastic and in-box space waste and : each part has to have its own sprue, no mutualization of the sprue is possible; shipment cost of an individual box depends on the box size so the ordnance sprues may end up using a lot of space in the box so box may have to be enlarged - high tooling wear: one cycle per kit is necessary inject a top wing sprue, four cycles per kit are necessary to provide four missiles - long to inject because one part per sprue and mould parts movements - sink marks if the parts are too thick; or let the sprue cool longer but then production rate is slower Pros: - ONLY no need to align the missile fins? Do you know that, we can have more details with slide mold design? Do you know that, AMK can achieve minimum thickness of 0.20mm of missile fins? Many of them, If you have a caliber, you can measure them. Is thinner the fins the more realistic? Is this modelers are expecting? -True that, less seam mould quality is good enough. Cons: - terrible step? If you are willing to pay your supplier (mould maker), most of them can make it properly aligned with sufficent price. - space waste? As Don said, is there any AMK kit box bigger than others with similar subject? - high tooling wear? Do you know AMK missile moulds can run 1 MILLION shots? Do you ever hear some moulds can have such life time? Or how many kits can sell over 100K pcs? - long to inject? All AMK moulds can be run automatically, so that, just simply leave the injection machine running without interference manually. So, do you know, the labor cost is much more higher than machine cost already in China? Does any of your K brand mould can be run automatically? - sink marks? Do you know sink makrs won't happen on round shape plastic? It can appear on relatively flat area or junction of round runners. You can try to cut one of AMK R-40 missile, if you have it, and if you are lucky, you can see a hole inside but you can never see sink marks on missile body. To be professional of plastics, it is not just servo motors. It is just simply an actuator of injection machine. So, please don't keep saying servo motor can improve the quality of plastics to foolish modelers. Factors influence plastics quality include, the size (tons) of injection machine, injection pressure, clamping force, the screw type in the nozzle, combinations of all the paramters, AND in combination of mould quality, mould design and 3D design. Do you know all of these, in addition to servo motors? Is this enough for you? If no, please feel free to ask me. I will tell you all I know. But please don't pretend to be good friend of mine, while putting a rod behind my back! Cheers! Sio Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sio Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 32 minutes ago, B.Sin said: The hinge looks okay to me. Haha. Once we saw the plastic, we knew the hinges are a bit too high in scale already. This is true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sio Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, solher1 said: After seeing that photo, I believe by the time you apply the paint and weather the model, the panels lines will look more like the real aircraft. I can clearly see the panels lines on that photo. I will keep my pre ordered kits and I also probably buy the Tamiya kit too. I believe AMK should do a F-111 series or a Su-15 instead of the Mig-25 now that ICM is doing it. There is slim chance the Flagon is going to be done by another company, I am not sure about the F-111. Keep the good job AMK. Juan The panel lines, we cannot satisfy all the preferences. Some like narrow, some like wider, some like deeper. What you see from the pictures of panel lines of Tomcat plastics, may not be the final. We will have one more EDM machining before going to production. Thank you for your support on preordering! You should buy the big T one too. I personally will buy some too, bought 5 for A version. As I said, we are not fighting, so don't compare we both. We should learn from them. We have to keep going with planned projects. But F-111, we will see if we will put it on shcedule or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think I like Tamiya's method of keeping their plans close to the vest. All this sturm and drang just poisons the water for AMK and potential kit buyers. Me, I want a dirty Turkey so I'm going to buy one when it comes out. I'm now gonna ignore this thread as it cannot supply any useful information regarding the kit's debut and I get no entertainment from it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 20 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said: Oh goodness no Martin, not you or Sio at all! I was referring to CheshireCat... You've been stellar. and I still stand with my post gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shidenkai Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 After seeing the details so far i'll get one for shure even though I'm not a big fan of the D. Beacause details look excellent. I already have the Tamiya which is a beautifull kit but I like the great technical approach of AMK and the power of innovation. I like that they don't give up and are a strong contender in the market. I like that they gave us the MIG 31 and others. I appreciate their reworked Kfir. Hey AMK if Tamiya is going to the market with a D why don't you, after your D, go to the market with an early A in Wolfback markings with the early beaver tail and stunning Box Art from someone like Shigeo Koike ? On top of this I have a very large stash and no hurry to get a new kit but I prefer a buildable super kit rather than the 500th medium quality model. So from my part take your time and I hope you make good money out of it to keep the motivation high for other innovations and projects. I hope aftre this, one time we'll see the Annetra Mi 8/17 from your factory as well. Keep up the good work T. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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