Berkut Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Doppelgänger said: In all honesty, I think that would be such a waste of resources when actually IAGeezer can always come here and read it online the times he wishes to. Whoosh. 3 hours ago, kaz said: Uhh... from the pictures normal users and AMK reps have posted on this board? Yes. And they show what, exactly? 1 hour ago, GunsightOne said: I know little about AMK, but it's very possible that there was a mistake somewhere between the CAD files and the tooling of the dies. This is fundamentally wrong. There is no "in between". CAD's is tooling, tooling is CAD's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GunsightOne Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 56 minutes ago, Berkut said: This is fundamentally wrong. There is no "in between". CAD's is tooling, tooling is CAD's. And yet we've seen their CAD renders, as well as the injected plastic parts. The latter's rear flanks are incorrectly shaped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Well, Berkut is right,,,,,,to a degree. We have seen CAD renders, and injected parts,,,,,but, if they differ in any area, that merely means that we have seen some CADs and some parts. Obviously, we didn't see the final CAD used to make the mold that made those parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Plastic models are like women, until you have your hands on them, you really don't know how good their curves are.👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Berkut said: There is no "in between". CAD's is tooling, tooling is CAD's. I'm no industrial engineer but I believe it's wrong. A CNC machine cannot work with a CAD object file. This file is fed to a CAM software that spurts out a file that describes the tools to be used, the paths and angles the tool is to follow, etc. This later file can be fed to the CNC machine to cut the EDM electrode. CAD model renders tell you about the accuracy and the amount of details of an future kit, not about the engineering quality (fit, surface details like panel lines). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Laurent said: I'm no industrial engineer but I believe it's wrong. A CNC machine cannot work with a CAD object file. This file is fed to a CAM software that spurts out a file that describes the tools to be used, the paths and angles the tool is to follow, etc. This later file can be fed to the CNC machine to cut the EDM electrode. CAD model renders tell you about the accuracy and the amount of details of an future kit, not about the engineering quality (fit, surface details like panel lines). What you're talking about is called GCode. it is used to instruct a CNC machine how to cut the tooling. A GCode is created from a CAD file using a CAM software. Given AMK's CAD model and the plastic we saw, if there is really that much discrepancy between the two, it must be a major human intervention and mistake somewhere. I cannot begin to imagine a CAM software, even with all the manual tweaking that is necessary, will make that significant of a mistake. I am beginning to believe something is wrong in that region based on AMK's silence. If it was our misinterpretation, you'd think they would've cleared the air right away, given how engaged they want to be seen with the public. That said, regardless of what is going on, if I were them, I'd: (1) Halt all PR stuff, (2) Review what they have with a few Tomcat experts and make changes as necessary, (3) Make the kit and get it ready for shipment, (4) Come back to social media and announce the damn thing only after then. Otherwise, this is turning into a case study of how not to manage an engineering project. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) A few more thoughts. The pics are from Berkut's earlier post. One thing to keep in mind is that at least in the first two pics below, the renders seem to have been in "Orthographic" mode (I am unsure about the third pic). Orthographic projection is great for measuring distances but can be deceptive to the human eye (see the illustration at the bottom). In particular, it tends to indirectly attenuate information closer to the camera as it preserves (rather than diminishing) the true size of the data far from the camera. All this is to say that I am now entertaining the possibility that the CAD and the plastic are in fact consistent and there is something wrong in that area (both CAD and plastic). If the first two pics were in perspective mode, the area of interest would be more pronounced, making it closer to what we see in the plastic pic, which does look odd. Can't remember seeing other CAD renders or plastic shots, so I'm open to the possibility a previously posted pic will invalidate my reasoning. I focus on this perspective vs ortho also because when they posted their box art, the ortho projection was what I caught immediately (IIRC) that gave it a very odd look. Edited October 20, 2018 by Janissary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 I just wish someone...anyone...from AMK would chime in here either way and hopefully do some damage control as there has been a lot written here since we've last heard from them. They are the only ones who can truly answer the questions and address the concerns posted over the last many pages yet they've been completely silent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Maybe they're embarrassed and working hard to fix the problem. If there really is one. We all know Hobby bo bo boss or Trumpeter wouldn't do that ! Edited October 20, 2018 by B.Sin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GunsightOne Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Don said: I just wish someone...anyone...from AMK would chime in here either way and hopefully do some damage control as there has been a lot written here since we've last heard from them. They are the only ones who can truly answer the questions and address the concerns posted over the last many pages yet they've been completely silent. That AMK's representatives have remained silent gives me probable cause to think that I did, in fact, point-out a flaw. Had it been just a perspective thing, or old tooling, someone on their end would have corrected me. But you have to look at it realistically from their end, too: if there's clearly a shape error and you deny it, you piss-off the fans by blatantly denying what people can see with their own eyes. If you admit the fault, people lose interest in the kit. The best damage-control you can do in their position is remain silent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Janissary said: In particular, it tends to indirectly attenuate information closer to the camera as it preserves (rather than diminishing) the true size of the data far from the camera. I was wondering why the CAD pics looked so strange. I was beginning to question my eyes. The parts that are supposed to be in the distance seem to have no size difference than those close to the viewer. Thanks Janissary! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, Mstor said: I was wondering why the CAD pics looked so strange. I was beginning to question my eyes. The parts that are supposed to be in the distance seem to have no size difference than those close to the viewer. Thanks Janissary! Yes, that's what I think is going on. In the CAD renders, you can actually see how the front of the Tomcat remains large, while the engines look weirdly small. If it was perspective projection (more natural to the eyes), the rear of the airplane would look bigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IAGeezer Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 2:37 PM, Berkut said: Print it out and read it like a bible before fondling the kit. More like the Odyssey..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre Freak Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 So when is the last time they posted? Last post on FB was 9/11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Sabre Freak said: So when is the last time they posted? Last post on FB was 9/11 Actually, they also posted the pic of all the sprues on 9/24. Not that it makes much difference. Silence since. Don't know whether that's good or bad. Edited October 21, 2018 by Mstor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mstor said: Actually, they also posted the pic of all the sprues on 9/24. Not that it makes much difference. Silence since. Don't know whether that's good or bad. It's a mystery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IAGeezer Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 For what it's worth, Solo had some photos posted back on page 112 that may or may not help regards the bump/hump/wart/thing.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 keep the faith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Manuel J. Armas S. said: keep the faith a little transparency would go a long ways towards bolstering that faith. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtypecanare Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 back to trolling...oh happy modeling! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 hours ago, IAGeezer said: For what it's worth, Solo had some photos posted back on page 112 that may or may not help regards the bump/hump/wart/thing.... Yes, I've seen those pics. If you are talking about the bump that is supposed to be above the stabilizer pivot point, then those pics just go to show that the AMK kit is missing said bump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, gtypecanare said: back to trolling...oh happy modeling! George, you rock! 👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I will get one kit just because.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Matt Foley Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 17 hours ago, gtypecanare said: back to trolling...oh happy modeling! What's next? Wake me up before you go go? I couldn't stand George Michaels....or Wham. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doppelgänger Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) On 10/20/2018 at 1:43 PM, Berkut said: Whoosh. ZING! Oh, well; my only hope is that, if it's not done on their D version... uh... oh... do you think AMK will retool the whole kit rear fuselage molds prior to releasing their A version? I really don't care for their D version, but could not do without their A version. Cheers, Onigiri Ever gotten an alien with an AIM-54 fired into outerspace? Edited October 23, 2018 by Doppelgänger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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