Space Tiger Hobbes Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 The Internet and other technologies are, indeed, changing the way the toy industry does business. That evolution is continuous. The industry will find some of those changes advantageous and continue them. They will find some of those changes counterproductive and modify or discard them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Mstor said: Took the words right out of my mouth New days, new ways. As Doppelganger said, the Internet has changed the way business is done. Even back in the late '80s things were starting to change. I remember using the old Usenet and experiencing virtually instantaneous communication with people around the world. I remember posting in a Usenet group about wanting one of Revell's 1/32 F-14s with the VF-1 Wolfpack markings. An hour later I had a reply from Sweden and a few weeks later I had a nice big box arrive from Sweden. It was simply amazing to me how fast this all happened. Now we take it all for granted, but back then, such communication was unknown to most people. Now, the expectations have changed. Customers no longer buy products without seeking reviews and comments from other customers on the Internet. Companies live or die by their reputation on the Internet. AMK opened the door when they began posting pics of parts months ago. What did they think we would do? Did they not know we would turn a critical eye upon those photos and make comments about any perceived problems? No, they know what they were getting themselves into. If not, then they were plain foolish and I don't think that is the case. Very, very true. I will also add that it's also changed the way buyer's react to problems. It seems those who scream loudest are heard the most, no matter which side of the discussion (if it can even be called that in certain instances) they are on and no matter how small a minority they are. It's what the internet has done to civility as a whole. Anonymity has created a lack of civil discourse. This thread is a perfect example. 125 pages? And yes, I realize that I'm participating in it. But the very fact that I have to preface that because someone will make a snarky comment simply proves my point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 27 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: It's what the internet has done to civility as a whole. Anonymity has created a lack of civil discourse. This thread is a perfect example. 125 pages? There always seems to be some of that. I sure hope I am not being one of those people you speak about. I think most (many?) of us have tried to maintain a civil level of discourse. I have found that I often enjoy the critical analysis and discussion of the merits of various models. Most of the time, though, I don't know enough about a subject to comment. In most things dealing with the F-14 I am simply an interested novice, but sometimes a critical eye can find faults that don't take expert knowledge to see. I admit to getting frustrated if others don't see what I see. That is a fault on my part and I try to bite my tongue instead of blurting out something that I will regret. But, I will persist if I see the opportunity to point something out when our collective attention is focused on the right thing (i.e. we are all looking at the same part of the aircraft and/or model). Another of my faults is I tend to ramble. SO, I shut up now (well for a while perhaps). 😉 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I'm just here for the beer... ...I can wait... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Hard times for the marketing guys... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RCAFFAN Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Don may have discovered what AMK is doing....."Free 1/48 AMK F-14D kits tomorrow"............(This is of course a joke and I shouldn't have to say that except Darren pointed out that some people don't realize people do joke from time to time...). Edited October 31, 2018 by RCAFFAN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Mstor said: There always seems to be some of that. I sure hope I am not being one of those people you speak about. I think most (many?) of us have tried to maintain a civil level of discourse. I have found that I often enjoy the critical analysis and discussion of the merits of various models. Most of the time, though, I don't know enough about a subject to comment. In most things dealing with the F-14 I am simply an interested novice, but sometimes a critical eye can find faults that don't take expert knowledge to see. I admit to getting frustrated if others don't see what I see. That is a fault on my part and I try to bite my tongue instead of blurting out something that I will regret. But, I will persist if I see the opportunity to point something out when our collective attention is focused on the right thing (i.e. we are all looking at the same part of the aircraft and/or model). Another of my faults is I tend to ramble. SO, I shut up now (well for a while perhaps). 😉 I wasn't speaking about you personally. More in generalities. In this thread, there are really only a couple of specific points being dealt with. It really shouldn't have reached 125 pages. We all realize that AMK is late in delivering the Tomcat, but it keeps being brought up over and over again, as if AMK owed those people something. They owe us nothing. On the flip side, we owe them nothing if we don't like how they are handling their business. But to belabor the point over and over again gets old quickly. Again, I'm not speaking about you personally. In regards to the kit itself, I can see the shape problem pretty readily. It's in the wing bag area. For some, it will be a huge issue. For others, it won't be much of a bother. Which one it is is completely up to the individual. I'll be getting one because I want one of every manufacturer. I've probably purchased my last Tamiya Tomcat (#8) because I've used them as test beds for my Steel Beach line. I've got about 40 Monogram Tomcats I want to start cranking out. So many markings and so little time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: In regards to the kit itself, I can see the shape problem pretty readily. It's in the wing bag area. That's where I disagree with you, but, I won't belabor the point any more than that. Also, I didn't think you were talking about me, but sometimes I wonder if I'm going overboard (probably am). So, to anyone who is tired of this thread and the constant back and forth on the same point, I apologize for my contribution to the mess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 "I can see the shape problem pretty readily. It's in the wing bag area." Darren Roberts No, it is not just in the wing bag area. The horizontal stabilizers are affected as swell. Interesting, we went from "best kit ever" to "looks like a Tomcat to me"... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 23 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: We all realize that AMK is late in delivering the Tomcat, but it keeps being brought up over and over again, as if AMK owed those people something. They owe us nothing. Don't they owe kits to the ones who payed for them ? 😛 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 ahhh, I saw that. 40 more finished Tomcat models coming one day from one builder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, galfa said: No, it is not just in the wing bag area. http://www.zactomodels.com/pictures/40067b3dc378eeb2728521bccb2008b7.jpg Perhaps... 20 hours ago, Mstor said: If they have indeed made corrections based on feedback from forums like this one, I would think that they would want to show us the corrections and get further feedback. Martin said this on Britmodeller (2 years ago) : "Everything has been taken on board and any changes required have been made. To be honest, there’s quite some work to make a model kit and all the help given is gratefully received but as to the need to report back on every change with a dedicated post and lines on the cad to “prove it” only takes valuable time away from making the kit. As I said before, we are grateful for the help and you are being listened to." That was during the CAD phase. Now that steel has been cut I'm not so sure they are anxious to learn about problems with their design... Do the issues pointed out justify the expense of re-tooling? Consider that this would involve both the upper and lower fuselage halves (big, expensive tools) as well as the stabilizers and wing bags. That is a call that AMK will have to make. I haven't followed the Tomcat threads closely (or analyzed the CADs & plastic), but if they claimed that this would be the best (read: most accurate) Tomcat kit, then perhaps the cost is justified. If they are going to go to that expense, it might be wise for them to share as many pics of at least the fuselage parts as possible so that any other problem areas (beyond the rear sides) that need fixing can be dealt with. Edited October 31, 2018 by Zactoman I hate Photobucket... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Zactoman said: If they are going to go to that expense, it might be wise for them to share as many pics of at least the fuselage parts as possible so that any other problem areas (beyond the rear sides) that need fixing can be dealt with. Indeed. P.S. I wonder what the longest thread in ARC history is? Do we have a chance of breaking a record? Edited October 31, 2018 by Mstor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mstor said: P.S. I wonder what the longest thread in ARC history is? Do we have a chance of breaking a record? Well this beat out the What if thread (in replies, not views). Is there a bigger thread elsewhere on ARC? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gb_madcat_sl Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Zactoman said: Well this beat out the What if thread (in replies, not views). Is there a bigger thread elsewhere on ARC? There’s this... Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, gb_madcat_sl said: There’s this... Mark Oh my. Well, that answers that question. Though, I guess one could assert that that thread isn't a "serious" thread, but I think that is opening yet another can of worms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Laurent said: Don't they owe kits to the ones who payed for them ? 😛 Did anyone actually pay money? It was my understanding that credit cards wouldn't be charged until the kit came out. Technically, if a retailer took money, they are the ones to owe someone money who prepaid. If indeed AMK took money, then you would completely correct. They WOULD owe us something! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 51 minutes ago, Mstor said: Oh my. Well, that answers that question. Though, I guess one could assert that that thread isn't a "serious" thread, but I think that is opening yet another can of worms. There’s still time for this thread to catch up and pass the M V thread before the kit is released ........ and what makes you think THIS thread is serious ??? 😎 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glorystomper Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 57 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: Did anyone actually pay money? It was my understanding that credit cards wouldn't be charged until the kit came out. Technically, if a retailer took money, they are the ones to owe someone money who prepaid. If indeed AMK took money, then you would completely correct. They WOULD owe us something! yep, i was one of the ones who paid up front with sincere hobby.. it's been a year since i paid and now sincere won't even reply to my e-mails about a refund. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, glorystomper said: yep, i was one of the ones who paid up front with sincere hobby.. it's been a year since i paid and now sincere won't even reply to my e-mails about a refund. That's way uncool on Sincere Hobby's part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, habu2 said: and what makes you think THIS thread is serious ??? 😎 You have a point Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: Did anyone actually pay money? I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Solo said: I did. I'd get with the retailer you paid it to and try and get a refund. They weren't supposed to charge anything until the kit actually came out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I bought it at HobbyEasy, and I hope to get this kit some day. It is over one year I have paid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doppelgänger Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 12 hours ago, Zactoman said: http://www.zactomodels.com/pictures/40067b3dc378eeb2728521bccb2008b7.jpg Butt wait, Chris...? I can only figure Brittany Johnson would excel at that? Anyway, why would you say modellers at Britmodeller are not nearly making the fuss we're making on here regarding the AMK Tomcat thread...? And, has anyone happened to notice how the rear flanks on Dylan's Tamiya F-14D look like from this angle? Cheers, Onigiri Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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