phantomdriver Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Think I'll just wait till it turns up, then I'll judge...😂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
305swag Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: I'm doing my part to get this thread to 131 pages. This is the kind of hyperbole that creates rifts between modelers. I'm a Tomcat guy. I love the Tomcat. I've built over 200 Tomcat models in various scales. If anyone could make a hyperbolic statement, I think I'd get the nod. But it doesn't serve any constructive purpose. Let's go this direction. It seems the issues in the rear fuselage are still there. I'm still going to pick you one up to see how it goes together and enjoy the build for what it is. I'll see how much the rear fuselage effects the overall look of the model once I get it. Well I'm sorry that I made a comment on the shape of the model, but you keep holding your breath until the kit comes out. Let us know how that works out for you😏 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flybywire Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Petarvu said: Looks like trouble with the curve. Lets hope GWH is better. No uber kit here... The profound curve is definitely and still there..... Hope director Clint Eastwood will not be mad at me by quoting his picture - "The Trouble With The Curve". ✌️ Edited November 4, 2018 by flybywire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, Dave Roof said: To be perfectly clear, I really have no dog in this fight. I couldn't care less about the F-14 or scale models of it. Will I build one? Probably.....maybe. Do I really, really care if it is accurate or not? No, not really. For this particular aircraft, I'm a TLAR modeler (that looks about right). None of the photos I've posted are mine either. I've simply re-posted images that others have. I'm just making an attempt at being a voice of reason in this endless sea of negative complaints. It's actually quite sad to see AMK being verbally treated the way they are by a bunch of scale modelers who have a ridiculous sense of entitlement. I think that the negative complaints are not totally unreasonalble, the shape just does not look right and not every one is a TLAR modeller in this case and can look pass it, as for the endless negative comments, they are contributed by the endless delay too, so IMO it can not be all blamed on some of us. Anyway, I hope it will be released soon, for those who like it they can enjoy it, for the rest of us we could shut up and move on then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, 305swag said: Well I'm sorry that I made a comment on the shape of the model, but you keep holding your breath until the kit comes out. Let us know how that works out for you😏 It's not that you made a comment about the shape. That's what discussion forums are for. It's how you made the comment. Hyperbole is what turns people off to those who try and offer insight and information about areas of plastic models that are incorrect. Your response to me further advances that perception of someone who doesn't care how they respond. I'm fully aware of the shape errors, yet I still intend to buy one. I'm not sure I see the problem with that. I'm not "holding my breath" hoping the shape problem goes away. I'm simply curious to see how off it is on the completed model with the wings swept back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F-16 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Now that AMK have returned from the show, (probably why they were "silent" for the last month or so) perhaps they will post some comments here and set the record straight. The model on display is still missing a few items, wing tips, upper wing strakes, tail speed brake... Scott CNJC-IPMS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adamitri Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I swear everyone forgets the enjoyment of building models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madcop Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I only wish that upon release of this model, the future 300 pages of this thread will blow up to the faces of their authors and will stick there for eternity. But I am confident that these same authors will be the first to buy the kit. Quite sure that some of them have even preordered it! Anyway, keep on telling whatever you want , this kit is going to sell and sell…. When ? I do not care ...when the times will have come ! More that 130 pages of fun and free advertisement… Thanks for that. Mr SULC from Eduard , the "king" of the com, must be jealous ! As for Martin , do not forget that this man is suffering from bad health and still, dedicated to our community. All these comments surely go right to his heart ! Thanks for him. As this thread has become more a struggle between egos, I'll leave it to them. A big thank-you to all the serious and objective reasoning members who always saved this thread from drowning. Madcop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, delide said: What?? I don't need a bridge 🙂 Dave Roof said earlier and I quote "it has been stated by Martin that the top photo is an EARLY TEST SHOT that has since been corrected". Personally I don't know what Martin has said, but yes, but I'd be indeed supprised if they retool them, however the fact is that they did have retooled the fuselage of their 1/48 Kfir. Wow, I go away for a little while and this thread just blows up. It now officially "HOT". I've been looking for what Martin actually said and the only thing I can find in this forum was in response to the original photo that started this controversy. He said: "Thanks for sharing the pictures Solo but what you didn't mention was that those were test shots and not the final product of course. They were also put together by a non modeller but a friend of ours who rushed them out for us at eDay. Little resemblance to the actual kit but the engineering remains the same of course. Come a long way since those 🙂" He did say that the picture was of a test shot. OK, that's fine. Are they using that same build in all their shows now? Either that or they have not corrected the problem. I suppose they could be using the same build for all their shows. Kind of lazy though, not doing a build with the newer parts. Plus, is the issue seen due to the parts being test shots or due to the build being done by a "non modeller". And what does "Little resemblance to the actual kit but the engineering remains the same of course." mean? It comes back to what I have said before. We need AMK to clarify this issue. Tell us they are using an old build for the shows. Show us some pics of the area (with the engine shroud piece on please) from various angles. I know some will say that AMK doesn't owe us anything. Others will say we're being crazy nit-pickers. I personally am just frustrated at not being able to get any straight info. I want to know. Whether the area is wrong or not, I am sure many people will still buy and build the kit. Personally, I am not a big F-14D fan, but have been considering buying this kit because of the wing detail, flaps and slats. But, if it has this issue that, for me, will certainly jump out at me every time I look at it, well then I don't think I will buy it. I know, big deal. Oh well... Edited November 4, 2018 by Mstor correct spelling error Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, madcop said: As for Martin , do not forget that this man is suffering from bad health and still, dedicated to our community. All these comments surely go right to his heart ! I did not know this. I sincerely hope he is doing OK. Certainly, no one here wishes him ill will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GunsightOne Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, delide said: The problem is certainly still there, maybe it’s the same old test shot. But I think that there seems to be a bit too much of a slope/inclination in that area on the test shot, so the curve is not only outwards but also downwards , that's why the curve looks better when viewed directly from above, like in the shot Dave Roof posted, but no so much in other angles. The crow I was told I would eat is starting to taste like I TOLD YOU SO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, phantomdriver said: Think I'll just wait till it turns up, then I'll judge...😂 OMG thinking like that will get you BANNED from this thread !!!!!! /s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) If it's the same test shot with the old, and since corrected shape, of course it would look the same. AMK has no obligation to show, comment, or address everyone's questions. Yes, we'd all like to see a perfect model, yes we are all interested in the outcome and yes, we'd all like to know what's going on. But just because you want it, doesn't mean they have any obligation to address this forum. I feel for them. Once you open the door for development to the masses, you get great feedback and information but you then also get constant need for updates from the masses. Tough position to be in. That area is a complicated shape and from different angles, it looks different. Why there are pictures of a F-14A as a comparison I don't get - that fairing is a different shape and length than the D. When the kit comes out, everyone will get to see what the real plastic looks like - perfect, close or flawed. But until then arguing over 'what ifs' is like a self licking ice cream cone. I don't understand how you can make an absolute determination that this kit has issues until it actually comes out. Once it is released, make your judgements. Cool. I'll do the same. Just a thought, with GWH and possibly others tooling new F-14 kits, it may not be in their interest in sharing the final product until it is released... Brian Edited November 4, 2018 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Amen, Brian 🙏 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Dave Roof said: To be perfectly clear, I really have no dog in this fight. I couldn't care less about the F-14 or scale models of it. Will I build one? Probably.....maybe. Do I really, really care if it is accurate or not? No, not really. For this particular aircraft, I'm a TLAR modeler (that looks about right). None of the photos I've posted are mine either. I've simply re-posted images that others have. I'm just making an attempt at being a voice of reason in this endless sea of negative complaints. It's actually quite sad to see AMK being verbally treated the way they are by a bunch of scale modelers who have a ridiculous sense of entitlement. 48 minutes ago, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said: If it's the same test shot with the old, and since corrected shape, of course it would look the same. AMK has no obligation to show, comment, or address everyone's questions. Yes, we'd all like to see a perfect model, yes we are all interested in the outcome and yes, we'd all like to know what's going on. But just because you want it, doesn't mean they have any obligation to address this forum. I feel for them. Once you open the door for development to the masses, you get great feedback and information but you then also get constant need for updates from the masses. Tough position to be in. That area is a complicated shape and from different angles, it looks different. Why there are pictures of a F-14A as a comparison I don't get - that fairing is a different shape and length than the D. When the kit comes out, everyone will get to see what the real plastic looks like - perfect, close or flawed. But until then arguing over 'what ifs' is like a self licking ice cream cone. I don't understand how you can make an absolute determination that this kit has issues until it actually comes out. Once it is released, make your judgements. Cool. I'll do the same. Just a thought, with GWH and possibly others tooling new F-14 kits, it may not be in their interest in sharing the final product until it is released... Brian QFT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 40 minutes ago, GW8345 said: QFT Ahh, quantum field theory (QFT), it's a "theoretical framework that combines classical field theory, special relativity, and quantum mechanics and is used to construct physical models of subatomic particles (in particle physics) and quasiparticles (in condensed matter physics)". Definitely applicable. Actually, I had to look up the acronym QFT. Wasn't familiar with it. The above was the first thing that came up. Sorry for the sillyness 😥 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Of course they have no obligations to provide anything, at the same time we have no obligation to keep quiet. Thing is simple - they release info about future release of popular model using many superlatives - by this they already start the machine. This gives them attention needed to nicely launch the model and idea of population interested but also starts discussions. When they publish info about updates to the development progress they also re-burn the fire of discussion. Everything wouldn't be so big without the super-long delay in kit production. The estimated date of delivery on indiegogo is December 2017 and I personally doubt that they'll make it in 2018. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tapchan said: Of course they have no obligations to provide anything, at the same time we have no obligation to keep quiet. So true! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) All the following images are screenshot from videos posted on this thread (see pag. 113). As you can see, the rear fuselage on the outboard side of the vertical side does slope down WAY too much is not flat (parallel) to the ground. Please notice that the video from which these screenshot are taken is about the japanese hobby show of few weeks ago. In that venue, all the sprues of this kit were advertised as final production items. As a result of this flaw, I guess that not only the gas bags, the stabilizers, and the upper and lower fuselage are - accuracy wise - flawed, but also the engine exhausts area. Edited November 4, 2018 by galfa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said: That area is a complicated shape and from different angles, it looks different. Why there are pictures of a F-14A as a comparison I don't get - that fairing is a different shape and length than the D. When the kit comes out, everyone will get to see what the real plastic looks like - perfect, close or flawed. But until then arguing over 'what ifs' is like a self licking ice cream cone. I don't understand how you can make an absolute determination that this kit has issues until it actually comes out. Once it is released, make your judgements. Cool. I'll do the same. Just a thought, with GWH and possibly others tooling new F-14 kits, it may not be in their interest in sharing the final product until it is released... But it's not that complicated that comparison is impossible, I chose photos with similar angles, picture of A is included, simply because it's not only that portion has issue(which is different from A to D). Yes, I believe the kit will have issues, because I can see that the test shot has issues, and like Dylan said, unless they retool all those related parts, the final kit will have the same shape/issue as the test shot. But wait, what if they did retool the parts so that final production kit will looks different and perfect? Guess what would make them do that, sound of silence? To me honest, I will not buy this kit, because Tamiya is good enough for me. I still post, because just do not understand and I do not like to see that people who discuss issues in CAD or even test shots get shot down and feel the need to apologize like it's a crime. Why should we all shut up and wait till the final kit, like CAD and test shot photos are all tricks and illusions? AMK retooled the fuselage of their Kfir and released an updated version, because no one has spotted the error in an earlier stage. GWH or others can do as they please, if they have the ability to get their research right, like GWH with their Su-35s or Tamiya with their F-14, I can't careless, in fact I hope all manufacterer have the ability to get things right themselves, keep everything secretly and then release everything with a bang, so that I don't have to wait at all, just give them money at random times and receive 100% guaranteed great kits. Personally I couldn't be more happier if that would be the case, looking at a CAD and test shot is neither my job nor my hobby. It's hard to feel for AMK. the kit take much long to make, problably because they have better jobs elsewhere to do, where they make better money, so that's actually good for them! Now that Tamiya jumped them, maybe GWH will do too, and their test shot has shape issues, is that our fault now?? I believe their bussiness is runing well, so I don't feel for them at all to be honest. Edited November 4, 2018 by delide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) I never said not to talk about it or compare. And I certainly suggested nothing about 'shutting up'. My comment is that you can't make an absolute judgment another something that doesn't exist in final form. Have all the conversations and discussion you want. I see some bad info being given as fact though. But AMK isn't obligated to come on here and address them for you. Really sucks this kit has taken so long and they've missed so many deadlines and have had such a PR/communication issue. There's things on the test shots I don't agree with or don't like and wouldn't choose to do. And there's some stuff I think is really cool and am excited about. But I'm waiting to see the final project. And yes, I'll buy and build some regardless. I'll fix things I can, get AM to enhance or correct if it makes it better. Oh, and to be clear, I have nothing to do with AMK and their marketing 'team'. Brian Edited November 4, 2018 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Another strange thing: AMK built test shot: focus on the flaps, look how long they're, the angle they made with the wing and where they're on the fuselage side. Now a real F-14D, with flaps in cat position: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventris Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, shion said: Another strange thing: AMK built test shot: focus on the flaps, look how long they're, the angle they made with the wing and where they're on the fuselage side. Now a real F-14D, with flaps in cat position: I really hope AMK did correct this issue, that looks so horrible (talking about the rear area here). Flaps could be just glued in the wrong position. Kinda glad I did not preorder this kit. Edited November 4, 2018 by Ventris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said: I never said not to talk about it or compare. And I certainly suggested nothing about 'shutting up'. My comment is that you can't make an absolute judgment another something that doesn't exist in final form. Have all the conversations and discussion you want. I see some bad info being given as fact though. But AMK isn't obligated to come on here and address them for you. Really sucks this kit has taken so long and they've missed so many deadlines and have had such a PR/communication issue. There's things on the test shots I don't agree with or don't like and wouldn't choose to do. And there's some stuff I think is really cool and am excited about. But I'm waiting to see the final project. And yes, I'll buy and build some regardless. I'll fix things I can, get AM to enhance or correct if it makes it better. Oh, and to be clear, I have nothing to do with AMK and their marketing 'team'. Brian Sure, but the thing here is that the final plastic is closely "related" with CAD and test shot, so to say the least. If the manufacturer dosn't make changes then so it will be what the final plastic looks like, shapewise at least. Any issue won't magically disappear, unless some mentioned it, some listened and made changes, so the judgement of the test shot could be carried over. Unless of course you don't see or believe that there is any issue in the test shot at the first place, then let's just agree to disagree. Maybe some bad info is passed as fact, but I see good info being ignored or dejected too. Surely AMK isn't obliged to come and address anything. It's also difficult, if they too just saw bad info here and therefore not going to change/retool anything. Nevertheless good PR means something, as there's no obligation for the customers to buy any new kits either. Now that there are more choices even, Tamiya jumped them for quite a while, GWH is going to release a kit with the same or similar features, maybe very soon, maybe with better shape, who knows? So why it must be AMK, the way I see is that it's not how we reacted , IMO it's not just a PR/communication issue any more. It's great that you are excited about some features and want to wait to buy the plastic to finally make the judgement for yourself, good luck and have fun doing what you decide to do then, I hope it will be soon. However not everyone will do the same as you, and that is certainly not unreasonable or wrong. Edited November 4, 2018 by delide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 4 hours ago, galfa said: As you can see, the rear fuselage side drops down WAY too much. The real thing is almost flat (parallel) to the ground. If I may correct you sir, on the real thing, the rear fuselage on the outboard side of the vertical stab does slope down and is not flat (parallel) to the ground. Respectfully, GW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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