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Don't worry Delide,,,,,,I am far from a Shut Up And Build It kind of guy.

 

I do understand that we need both Rivet Counters and OOB TLAR builders in this hobby. Mostly because if we assume a 50/50 split in those attitudes, losing either group would cut the pool of buyers in half.

 

Here's a small laugh for you,,,,,,threads like this one just help prove my theory that modelers almost ALL want to be OOB builders. If a modeler was completely opposed to OOB,,,,,,then details and shapes wouldn't matter a bit. But, obviously, those two things matter a lot to a lot of modelers. That just has to mean that they want to open a model box, and have a great replica right Out Of the Box. (the very definition of OOB)

 

Me?,,,,,,I like the "problems" with kits and the complete lack of decals for some units,,,,,,,that gives me a chance to correct some kits and be unique, and to create some squadrons and be unique.

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11 hours ago, Mstor said:

Where does one find said photos? I didn't see any on their Facebook page. In the pic you posted there is an F-14 sprue up in the upper left corner.

 

They provided fewer and fewer infos on their FB page, with less and less answers to people who made preorders.

No news anymore.

 

They made a closed FB group and provide infos there (paradoxal PR move but their choice).

 

You've got finally more infos here: https://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=模型类新闻&ie=utf-8

One remark: seems Chinese modellers got the same questions and remarks  about the kit, they pointed the same inacuracies and the same problems.

 

Edited by shion
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12 hours ago, madmanrick said:

"... I am of the belief that once the plastic is in its' box, the pundits can have at it and if the kit is wrong in any area, they can expend many pixels on decimating it. But, until then it is an exercise in futility, as they have nothing but a few test shots to go on.

 

Rick

With all due respect, What good does it do at that point to point out any errors? I mean if a company is willing to make changes to test shots, which AMK has shown in the past and in this thread, they are willing and eager to do, in order to improve a product then isn't that a good thing? How many times has a company issued a model with shape errors only to have a large group of people wonder why in the world they didn't ask people to look at what they were designing before it went to production? Shape errors like most all of Trumpeter's canopies and intake shapes on things like the A-7. Had they posted test shots and cad images on boards such as this we might have ended up with a MUCH better kit and everyone would have been a winner. But instead, people get defensive and call it hysteria once a company DOES post images and others step in a try to point out perceived flaws in an effort to help. Instead, they are told to wait til the plastic comes out and THEN bash away. Seems rather pointless in my mind. Why post anything at all then? Just release it as-is and wish you'd noticed issues before production. Do some people get carried away? Of course. Is it really hurting anyone? Not at all. Does it have the potential to help make things better? Absolutely.

 

My opinion on the shape in question based on available information is that it does in fact appear to be off slightly (the real plane has 3 distinct angles and different radii where they meet and not a long sweeping curve as indicated). Is it enough to warrant not buying the kit? Probably not. Maybe they did fix it maybe they didn't. But there are no images that show it one way or another. That's all. Pretty simply situation if you ask me. But without the discussion there is only a flawed kit or a perfect kit.

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16 hours ago, delide said:

Well I would first need to look it up again,  from more memes from Doppelgänger that is :-)

 

Sorry, but one thing is a cheap Chinese-made urethane Batman mask which went for $2.67, and another very different thing is this expensive White Space Suit Costume Astronaut NASA Moon Landing Mens Theatrical Costume going for $93. I'd rather invest that sum on getting the AMK F-14D kit, you know. :tease:

Cheers,

 

Onigiri

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Bill, there is something else that goes with your cycle.

 

In addition to just reading about modeler's opinions of what is wrong with a kit before it gets released, there is another factor.

If the modelers are listened to, and corrections are made to the parts,,,,,,,,,that delays the production of the kit, and pushes back the release date.

 

A "simple" thing like a decal printing error can cause a delay, as just happened to a popular decal company. A good quality product takes time.

 

And as we have read for 135 pages,,,,,,it should be done and perfectly, yesterday, after something is pointed out after many many months of work.

 

There no longer is a "right" way  to do anything. Don't ask, and errors get pointed out when nothing can be done. Don't announce, and people howl about building some lesser kit just before the new one hit the shelves. Ask "how are we doing?" and unless everyone says "perfect",,,,,,then you have to delay to fix it, or release it with the errors.

 

All to be done at the lowest possible price, so that the kit can be "shopped around" to save 3 nickles, or so that it is cheap 3 years later as a second hand kit. 

 

This is about kits that typically will see about 200 built of the 10,000, the other 9800 will sit in stashes and closets "waiting in line" behind 453 other models in each stash,,,,,and then the "how do I fix old AMK decals from 12 years ago" questions come out in the forums.

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:56 PM, habu2 said:

 

Is this the final release picture ? or a pre-production picture ?

 

The ears are all wrong, the curvature of the mask is fatally flawed, the space between the eyes is too wide.  Compared to the Moebius kit, which is obviously perfectly accurate, I will certainly be demanding my pre-order payment refunded.

 

Are you going to fix this pic before Telford ?  We are owed an explanation and photos of the corrected mask IMMEDIATELY !!!!

 

🙈   🙉   🙊

 

:rofl:Yes, habu. That's the final release picture. That's just an optical illusion; the ears are all bent because the back of the mask is being pressed against the pillows, hence, the pressure distorts the shape of the mask and make the space between eyes wider (the distortion makes for the overall pathos of the whole picture, like the way I'm clenching the blanket).

Can I have your pre-order payment? The mask brand is in Chinese, so I don't know whether it's 麻 馬 罵 媽 or something.

Not fixing my picture before Telford because the mask looks a lot different while the back of it is not pressing against the pillows, so modellers might not recognise me and say it's not me the one behind the mask. Neither explanation nor correction of the mask offered until Telford.

Cheers,

 

Onigiri-san 

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5 hours ago, shion said:

You've got finally more infos here: https://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=模型类新闻&ie=utf-8

One remark: seems Chinese modellers got the same questions and remarks  about the kit, they pointed the same inacuracies and the same problems.

Thanks for the link shion. I tried viewing it using Google Chromes translator. Needless to say, Google's translation of Chinese leaves a lot to be desired. I never could find out what you were specifically referring to in the original post, but I I think I get the gist of it. The Chinese modelers are dealing with the same issues as we are here. Just goes to show that people are pretty much the same no matter where you go.

Well, back to the Never Ending Story 😉

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I understand what you're saying Rex. I guess you can look at it several ways. Either you invest in a really top notch research and development and design team and hire all the right people to make sure these things are correct and NEVER show anything until it's practically released. It's very costly to have that kind of team and resources. That's the approach companies like Tamiya take. They pretty much work out all of these issues behind closed doors. And typically (not always) end up with a really really good product. Another approach is to just simply go in, rush to get some product out and cut corners on design and end up with a product that has a ton of errors. This is how you end up with some of those earlier Trumpeter kits. Sure, they get issued so we do have a kit, but is it a great kit? Hardly.

Or you can take another approach. You can try to do the best research you can with somewhat limited resources. Run up some CAD models and post those images on modeling forums. Let the people make comments and suggestions. Then take that, make edits and run some test shots, evaluated and post those images. Let people comment and then make decisions based on time and finances as to what changes to make. This SEEMS to be the approach AMK has taken. (please note I'm not knocking their research and development team, but it's certainly understood they don't have the finances of a large company like Tamiya to spend on research design work.) In my opinion, for a younger company this approach makes the most sense. Sure, it can be frustrating and upset some people by missing deadlines. I think that is why Tamiya chooses not to take that route, they can afford to.

 

So yeah, I think AMK is doing it right. And I agree at some point they just have to say "enough is enough" here is our kit for better or worse. Don't like it sorry but I hope you do. But I think the discussions are warranted. I think the feedback is necessary if you are going to take that approach. Otherwise you end up with a pretty bad product that maybe made a deadline, but falls really short of expectation. I'm sure it's a hard balancing act. I do wish them the best. I think they are on the right track.

 

Bill

Edited by niart17
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4 minutes ago, niart17 said:

You can try to do the best research you can with somewhat limited resources. Run up some CAD models and post those images on modeling forums. Let the people make comments and suggestions. Then take that, make edits and run some test shots, evaluated and post those images. Let people comment and then make decisions based on time and finances as to what changes to make.

 

I think there is another approach you didn't mention. The company could send out some requests at the beginning of a project for subject matter experts (SMEs). Work with them during the design phase, sending them CAD so they can give constructive feedback. These SMEs, may or may not be reimbursed for their time and work, but it would certainly behoove them to provide some sort of reimbursement, even it it just in kits. The company decides what features and/or corrections it will apply based on time, work and money required to implement suggestions. I may be wrong, but I think GWH used this approach with their Su-35, which most agree, is an excellent kit. 

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"hard balancing act"

 

yep, that is true,,,,,,,,and even though it would still be hard,,,,,it would be much easier without being up on that wire with 12-gauges pointed at you

 

meanwhile, I am going back to my wait for a couple of decal sheets, due out about the middle of November,,,,,,,,I like the guy and his products, a lot,,,,,,but, mannnn, if he is three days late,,,,,I'm going to,,,,,,,,,,,oh, wait, no I'm not,,,,,I will just wait a couple more. 

 

That sounds like I am comparing apples to oranges,,,,,,,,,,,but, if you do the "announcement to release" math,,,,,then getting those decals once planned for October, and having to wait until November is just about the same percentage.

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4 hours ago, Rex said:

Bill, there is something else that goes with your cycle.

 

In addition to just reading about modeler's opinions of what is wrong with a kit before it gets released, there is another factor.

If the modelers are listened to, and corrections are made to the parts,,,,,,,,,that delays the production of the kit, and pushes back the release date.

 

A "simple" thing like a decal printing error can cause a delay, as just happened to a popular decal company. A good quality product takes time.

 

And as we have read for 135 pages,,,,,,it should be done and perfectly, yesterday, after something is pointed out after many many months of work.

 

There no longer is a "right" way  to do anything. Don't ask, and errors get pointed out when nothing can be done. Don't announce, and people howl about building some lesser kit just before the new one hit the shelves. Ask "how are we doing?" and unless everyone says "perfect",,,,,,then you have to delay to fix it, or release it with the errors.

 

All to be done at the lowest possible price, so that the kit can be "shopped around" to save 3 nickles, or so that it is cheap 3 years later as a second hand kit. 

 

This is about kits that typically will see about 200 built of the 10,000, the other 9800 will sit in stashes and closets "waiting in line" behind 453 other models in each stash,,,,,and then the "how do I fix old AMK decals from 12 years ago" questions come out in the forums.

Great post sir!!

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So, are we to assume that the sample at Telford is still a TEST SHOT and not a production model?

 

If so, then the kit may not be out by the end of the year if production has not started on this kit?

 

Scott

CNJC-IPMS

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4 minutes ago, F-16 said:

So, are we to assume that the sample at Telford is still a TEST SHOT and not a production model?

 

Hi, Scott

Stay tuned throughout the weekend, as modellers at Britmodeller will know it first. I really hope it's indeed a test shot, judging by the picture Martin has asked Dylan to upload two days ago.

Judging by that shot, the boo-boo is still there on the rear flanks.

Cheers,

 

Onigiri

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16 minutes ago, F-16 said:

So, are we to assume that the sample at Telford is still a TEST SHOT and not a production model?

 

If so, then the kit may not be out by the end of the year if production has not started on this kit?

 

Definitely.  Let’s just keep posting personal conclusions based on unfounded assumptions. 

 

Wouldn’t have it any other way in this thread.......

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18 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

Definitely.  Let’s just keep posting personal conclusions based on unfounded assumptions. 

 

Wouldn’t have it any other way in this thread.......

Not to sound like a jerk, but I think conclusion sentences end with a period. His had question marks, which is an inquiry, not a conclusion. Just keeping it real.

Edited by niart17
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2 hours ago, F-16 said:

So, are we to assume that the sample at Telford is still a TEST SHOT and not a production model?

 

If so, then the kit may not be out by the end of the year if production has not started on this kit?

 

 

I would be very surprised if ready kit would hit the shelves before February 2019.
Very surprised.

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1 hour ago, wadeocu said:

Perhaps we have reached the point to ask the enduring, age-old question:

 

Is that an accurate release date

 

or a looks close enough to me release date?

 

:thatfunny:

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7 hours ago, Doppelgänger said:

 

Hi, Scott

Stay tuned throughout the weekend, as modellers at Britmodeller will know it first. I really hope it's indeed a test shot, judging by the picture Martin has asked Dylan to upload two days ago.

Judging by that shot, the boo-boo is still there on the rear flanks.

Cheers,

 

Onigiri

I thought BM was gone for good!!  

 

 

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17 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

I thought BM was gone for good!!  

 

Not quite, Gary. What ever made you think so? Lots of good modellers out there; they're real gents as well. Might have to get an account started on there very soon.

 

5 hours ago, gb_madcat_sl said:

Hope they at least ship before the Chinese New Year else it’s gonna be a really long wait. 

 

That's right, Mark! It's going to be a really looooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnggg wait if not.

Cheers,

 

Onigiri

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