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14 minutes ago, habu2 said:

I just did an internet search on the phrase "train wreck" - and it pointed me to this thread.....

 

10 minutes ago, zerosystem said:

Understatement of the year...

 

b7d.jpg

Umm..........you do realize that no one is forcing you to click on this thread, you are doing that on your own free will so I don't understand why you are complaining about getting (probably) the only entertainment of your day by reading this thread.

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10 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

 

Umm..........you do realize that no one is forcing you to click on this thread, you are doing that on your own free will so I don't understand why you are complaining about getting (probably) the only entertainment of your day by reading this thread.

They are adding to the local color. The strange and quaint habits of the tribal scale modeler. Our culture is unique and endangered. We must all do our part. 🙄

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I'm concerned by the view of some people that AMK don't owe any sort of explanation as to what is happening as I am certain they would not run their own business that way in such circumstances (and recall such people providing explanations when their businesses didn't go as planned) but especially in these circumstances:

1  AMK announced they were working on the kit.

2. They announced they were too busy with other stuff and needed people to commit to the kit to "encourage them" to proceed and asked for pre-orders, looking for           5000 orders by a certain date.

3.  They extended that date to allow more time in the circumstances but never did reach the 5000 asked for.

4.  While they didn't announce the total orders they did say something to the effect that they got over half what they wanted.

5.  Some people say they ordered more than one.

6.  I figure that based on the above about 2,000 to 2,500 people pre-ordered the kit.

7.  Based on the pre-orderers they said they would proceed and promised to have the kit out to the people who ordered (and to dealers) before the end of summer 2018

8.  Unless they meant summer in the southern hemisphere (which starts in about 2 weeks and isn't likely since much of the orders they took were in Europe and North America), then they             have missed that deadline by a good chunk and still haven't provided a date of release.

9.  Several thousand people lived up to their part of the agreement (pre-ordering and committing) but AMK have not lived up to numerous deadlines and promises made.

10. Several thousand people are owed an explanation as to why their deal with AMK is not proceeding........... 

 

I'm not buying a kit and have no interest in getting same but I find their actions pretty strange and not any way I would run a business.....

Edited by RCAFFAN
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And unlike Kickstarter, contributors in an Indiegogo campaign must pay directly by Paypal and all the collected money go to the campaign starter, in the end of the campaign, in june 2017.

So yes, in fact, AMK who received this sum, owe something to the Indiegogo contributors.

Same thing with their distributors and their customers.

 

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1. This is just an option!!! You can use it or leave it. The closed fins are also included. So . . .

 

URX8gik.jpg

 

u4j4q3c.jpg

 

2. Technologically the open fins are a master piece and I love it. Why is this important? It opens doors which have not been used in the past and in future kits it could be used to make some fascinating parts.

 

3. Why was it included in the set? One should ask Sio. I believe he liked the idea and for him it was a technological challenge and he likes them. Since he is doing the kit, he makes choices and includes what he likes.

 

4. One can say that making a kit of the Velorex by Eduard was a very silly idea. Very simple. Sulc liked it, he has the company and so he made it.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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16 minutes ago, Ventris said:

Would be great for a seperate weapon kit but the announced product is a Tomcat. 

 

It's all part of the smoke and mirrors. 

 

But they left out the little stands to show deployed bomb winglets à la airshow

 

Tony 

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1 hour ago, Ventris said:

Would be great for a seperate weapon kit but the announced product is a Tomcat. 


I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the weapons will be available as a separate weapons set.

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1 hour ago, madcop said:

 

You'd better shut it up for a while and just talk about what you know !. It will make us holidays and  the air will be healthier !

 

 

 


Main difference between Kickstarter and Indiegogo:

 

Quote

The other significant difference between Kickstarter and Indiegogo is that Indiegogo allows for two types of funding. Kickstarter allows for payment to be delivered only if the goal of your campaign. In addition to the all-or-nothing model, Indiegogo allows you to keep the all the funds you raise, even if you don’t hit your goal

 

And if you look AMK Indiegogo campaign:https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/amk-88007-f-14d-super-tomcat-preorder#/backers 

and look at the goal:

 

 

Quote

Flexible goal: this campaign has ended and will receive all fund raised.

 

Or is it an optical illusion here too?

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12 hours ago, Dave Roof said:

 

They included those so the modeler can do an in flight "diorama" with the bombs as they would appear shortly after release from the aircraft. AMK is well aware they weren't open in any other situation.

 

I normally just read posts and don't respond however Dave, based on your above comment in bold, along with the follow up post of "AMK thought it would be a cool idea to provide that option for them", you give the impression that you are in direct talks with AMK and/or helping them with the kit since you are suggesting you know what they are thinking or aware of.  If that is the case (excuse me if you divulged that before) then your posts in defense of AMK are a bit biased.  If not, then how do you know what they are aware of or thinking?  

 

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40 minutes ago, shion said:

 

 

 


Main difference between Kickstarter and Indiegogo:

 

 

And if you look AMK Indiegogo campaign:https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/amk-88007-f-14d-super-tomcat-preorder#/backers 

and look at the goal:

 

 

 

Or is it an optical illusion here too?

 

Optical  illusion, AMK will receive the money from Indiegogo when they will show proofs that the kits have been dispatched to the contributors.

I won't quote my source.

 

Amen

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22 minutes ago, Spike72 said:

 

I normally just read posts and don't respond however Dave, based on your above comment in bold, along with the follow up post of "AMK thought it would be a cool idea to provide that option for them", you give the impression that you are in direct talks with AMK and/or helping them with the kit since you are suggesting you know what they are thinking or aware of.  If that is the case (excuse me if you divulged that before) then your posts in defense of AMK are a bit biased.  If not, then how do you know what they are aware of or thinking?  

 

It's pretty well covered in the early part of the thread when the first CADs were posted. 

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39 minutes ago, Spike72 said:

 

I normally just read posts and don't respond however Dave, based on your above comment in bold, along with the follow up post of "AMK thought it would be a cool idea to provide that option for them", you give the impression that you are in direct talks with AMK and/or helping them with the kit since you are suggesting you know what they are thinking or aware of.  If that is the case (excuse me if you divulged that before) then your posts in defense of AMK are a bit biased.  If not, then how do you know what they are aware of or thinking?  

 

 

 

Nope, I have absolutely nothing to do with the AMK kit as I know very little about the F-14. Maybe enough to build one correctly, but that is about it. I've followed their Facebook page, read the comments that have been put out by them and have had a couple of questions answered via private message. For 95% of the project, I am in the dark just like everyone else. The other 5% that I know of is simply because I've paid attention. What little I do know is enough for me to defend them though.

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22 hours ago, madcop said:

I do not care about how AMK is running his business , that's AMK's problem, not mine.

I do not care about the way AMK is communicating, that's AMK's problem, not mine.

 

 

Cop, that’s perfectly fine by me, and I admire you not to care. Now, having you pre-ordered, I think you ought to care a huge lot the way AMK is running business, lest that, in case that you ever needed to complain, you be told that the way AMK runs business is not of your concern; this meaning as well that you’re not even allowed to learn what the status of the kit you’ve pre-ordered is, and also that the deadline for its releasement date is subject to be continuously postponed until AMK see fit, without them even having to let you know. Surprisingly, isn’t it exactly what AMK is doing right now?

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

I do not care about Martin's way of communicating , but I can understand it after having followed the 10% interesting content out of these 140 pages thread ( that's becoming more of a pamphlet than a sound discussion)

 

 

Precisely, if this thread is a pamphlet is partly owing to the way AMK is not communicating in an efficient way, even though they’ve asked modellers to commit monetarily. Hence, this commitment doesn’t seem to go both ways. It’s an utter lack of respect towards all of the modellers who’ve trusted AMK.

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

I do not care whether Martin had brought the last samples with him at Telford and to who he showed them or not. That's his business, not mine !

 

Again, having read about the fuss that was going on on this thread about the rear flank issue, it was Martin the one posting that he would bring those samples to Telford, and yet, he said it himself that he did s.how some of the F-14D kit last project there. How come he didn’t even share that here with you, the ones who pre-ordered, to settle on this argument? Just one shot will suffice

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

I just trust what I see and hold in my hands.

 

Hope that you do have something to trust - in your own hands - very soon, and by soon I mean the Southern hemispere summer 2018 - that’s on 2018/12/21. But you know very well summer in the Southern hemisphere could mean three more whole months until 2019/03/21, so I’d be very careful about the non-specific dates.

You see what my point is about the lack of proper communication on part of AMK? 

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

I pre ordered the kit through Indigogo knowing , by references to the other AMK products I already had, that at the end of the project I would have a quality product and I felt that AMK was deserving this kind of fund raising and the little if no risk I took.

 

It’s a gamble to take for granted that subsequent kits from certain manufacturer are going to maintain the same level of quality; in fact, other kits by AMK I could tell you about were far from being considered quality products by me; the Fouga-Magister and the Kfir were not so good compared to those same kits released by Kinetic. Anyway, I’m not judging AMK by the quality of their kits but the way they communicate and conduct business. You were asked to commit and now you’re being disrespected by their not letting you learn about the last particulars of the very kit you helped financing. 

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

So, I do not care about the time it takes to AMK to finish his project. ( Daddy, is Great Britain still far away ? ………. Shut up and swim !)

 

Yes, had better shut up and swim as long as stamina (or faith?) is not lost, in the end, for having swam endlessly and without direction; you know, the buoy being moved further and further, without an exact notice whether the tide is shorebound or otherwise, if you allowed me the nautical analogy...

I do really hope AMK deliver the promised (and accurate) kit within what’s little time left in 2018. If not, you’re gonna drown, I guess. 

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

Do I feel betrayed by AMK ? Just guess.

 

Had better not guess, but there’s quite a difference between being insulted by AMK than it is to feel betrayed by them. Let’s just hope the kit is indeed released in 2018. 

 

22 hours ago, madcop said:

Shall I buy more AMK product ?  Yes of course as long as I keep interest in the subject.

Amen!

 

Dunno whether AMK will be able to resort to asking modellers to pre-order ever again, so safest thing is that they will learn to release kits just like Tamiya do (or GWH with their excellent 1/48 Su-35 Flanker E kit for instance?). I’m sick and tired to hear kit release announcements by AMK that are just BS ultimately. Needless to say I’m tired to see them kick the F-14D releasement date further and further in time. Tired to see how inefficient they are at communicating, and I have no skin in the game.

On the other hand, you see brands like Tamiya, who not only are efficient in the way they announce, but also they’re a lot more serious about the way they conduct their business. Also, they seem to have nailed the F-14 variants a lot more better than you know who. Also beat you know who to it twice!  

 

Cheers,

 

Onigiri

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24 minutes ago, Doppelgänger said:

this thread is a pamphlet is partly owing to the way AMK is not communicating in an efficient way, even though they’ve asked modellers to commit monetarily

 

Official distributors should not have charged anyone for preorders, so the only ones monetarily committed are Indiegogo supporters and those who made preoders from non official distributors.

 

33 minutes ago, Doppelgänger said:

summer in the Southern hemisphere could mean three more whole months until 2019/03/21, so I’d be very careful about the non-specific dates

 

46 minutes ago, Doppelgänger said:

Needless to say I’m tired to see them kick the F-14D releasement date further and further in time.

 

Have not seen any official release date from AMK other the one involved with the preorders target that was not achieved, so the only ones kinking ahead release date are seller still taking preorders. I hope to see the kit soon but AMK owes nothing to me  even if I paid for my preorder (it was my choice to order outside official distributors paying in advance).

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Andrea Bolla said:

so the only ones monetarily committed are Indiegogo supporters and those who made preoders from non official distributors.

 

So, those who committed monetarily must be 5 or 6 modellers in the whole world, tops... :rolleyes: 

 

29 minutes ago, Andrea Bolla said:

Have not seen any official release date from AMK other the one involved with the preorders target that was not achieved, so the only ones kinking ahead release date are seller still taking preorders. I hope to see the kit soon but AMK owes nothing to me  even if I paid for my preorder (it was my choice to order outside official distributors paying in advance).

 

Don't the words "in the summer" ring any bells on you, Andrea? Was it the sellers or AMK the ones mentioning them?

Oh, well; as you wish. For the sake of everyone involved, I really hope AMK release the "Mother Of All Tomcats" kit in 2018 - that is - or else, something's gonna start smelling rotten.

Cheers,

 

Onigiri 

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3 hours ago, madcop said:

 

Optical  illusion, AMK will receive the money from Indiegogo when they will show proofs that the kits have been dispatched to the contributors.

I won't quote my source.

 

Amen

 

https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204484508-When-Do-I-Get-My-Money-

 

 

Quote

When Do I Get My Money?

You will receive your funds in your bank account within 15 business days after your campaign ends, provided your bank account information is correct and accurate. To prevent delays, please ensure your bank information is complete and correct before your campaign ends! 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Andrea Bolla said:

Have not seen any official release date from AMK other the one involved with the preorders target that was not achieved, so the only ones kinking ahead release date are seller still taking preorders. I hope to see the kit soon but AMK owes nothing to me  even if I paid for my preorder (it was my choice to order outside official distributors paying in advance).

 

 

 

 

But it was posted here:

 

On 6/28/2018 at 9:06 AM, Manuel J. Armas S. said:

From AMK fb page... 


********Official F-14D Release Announcement********

Hi All,

We appreciate that you have been worried, requesting information and waiting patiently for the release of our AMK F-14D Tomcat, so here we go........

AMK WILL RELEASE F-14D TOMCAT THIS SUMMER 2018!

We have to mention it again as many times as we can, *please* don't argue or compare. Just do what ever you are happy to do. Let's maintain the happy modeling world together! That's what we want - no politics, no religion, no blame just fun and sharing. We should be one big family in our little hobby of escape 1f642.png?_nc_eui2=AeFkY4MFnAq38CI5zpk78🙂

Some information you guys may be interested to know:

* We had a bit more than 3000 pcs preorder.
* Thank you very much to those, who supported us. You deserve, in addition to price discount, an Ordnance set for free. This will be sent to you.
* We have done a lot for this kit and many options will be included for you. Wing options (surfaces etc fully open / closed closed ), canopy glass options, options of intake door opening levels, options of horizontal stabilizer angles, etc. 
* This is quite an investment in molds for us, a small company. 10000 pcs of sales may be required to help us to balance the cost. Your continuing support would be nice for us to keep up our work good fo rthis and our future projects (many started and ongoing) you will be excited to know of them.

Edited by shion
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Hi Gänger :whistle:

 

"Cop, that’s perfectly fine by me, and I admire you not to care. Now, having you pre-ordered, I think you ought to care a huge lot the way AMK is running business, lest that, in case that you ever needed to complain, you be told that the way AMK runs business is not of your concern; this meaning as well that you’re not even allowed to learn what the status of the kit you’ve pre-ordered is, and also that the deadline for its releasement date is subject to be continuously postponed until AMK see fit, without them even having to let you know. Surprisingly, isn’t it exactly what AMK is doing right now?"

 

If I were you, I would have said that " before pre ordering, take care and inform yourself about the way AMK is running his business "
That's what I did and I have no fear at all.
After that, the only thing I have to do is WAIT until the project is O.K. and the kit delivered.
AMK owes me a scale model , and nothing more.
AMK never asked me money, they proposed me to help them developing a non profit scale model. That's quite  different. Lot of people forgot about that, but AMK just want to recover their initial investment , both in time and money. So it's a zero benefit affair ! That's all. Can you give me another example of non profit model-maker ?
So I helped them through Indiegogo hoping for the best. I am still confident that the best is on his way. When shall this best arrive, I don't know and I do not want to know , but it will come ! I have enough much more important matter to be concerned about.
 

"if this thread is a pamphlet is partly owing to the way AMK is not communicating in an efficient way."

So it seems that you agree with me. The causes, do not matter even if I must admit that "communication" ( I hate this typical nonsense 21th century word) is not the best they can do, but I do not care as long as the final product is O.K.   I sent my money not to hear them but to receive the quality product I am expecting from them.
Only the end result counts, the rest is bullshit.

 

"it was Martin the one posting that he would bring those samples to Telford, and yet, he said it himself that he did show some of the F-14D kit last project there. "

 

Excuse me, but Martin never said that , he said " IF I can have the pieces I'll bring them to Telford  and...  blablabla....

 

That's what he did with the pieces he was able to have to show, actually not the pieces you would have wanted him to have....!.

 

"You were asked to commit and now you’re being disrespected by their not letting you learn about the last particulars of the very kit you helped financing."

 

I repeat, I was not asked ...
I never pre ordered on the condition that AMK should reveal me every aspect of the development and production and date of release.

So, no problem for me here.

 

"I do really hope AMK deliver the promised (and accurate) kit within what’s little time left in 2018 . If not, you’re gonna drown, I guess"

 

I told you that I am not interested in the release date of the kit, but even if it were the case, do not worry I have endurance. As for the quality , I still do not fear, Sio is a perfectionist.
Could I die before the kit is released ? ...yes of course, like you or everybody else  here in the two following minutes, but in that case I really won't care anymore (just as today) So, no change here!

 

"Had better not guess, but there’s quite a difference between being insulted by AMK than it is to feel betrayed by them. Let’s just hope the kit is indeed released in 2018."

 

I never felt insulted by AMK and now you must understand why. I'll feel betrayed the day AMK announces me that they drop the project, that the moulds are being sold to another company, and that they thank me for the money I gave to Indiegogo, money that they unfortunately will never receive !

To be honest , I hardly can conceive such a sad end !.

 

"On the other hand, you see brands like Tamiya, who not only are efficient in the way they announce, but also they’re a lot more serious about the way they conduct their business."
 

You can't compare a "Monster" like Tamiya and a " Hobby family" affair like AMK.
AMK is doing kits as a Hobby, as a side non profit activity, when they have free time and in such a way they don't interfere with their main activity and not LOOSE money, while achieving high standard. Tamiya is just the contrary.

( Except for the standard , of course !)

 

Cheers Doppelgänger and stay cool , it's only plastic you know !

Madcop

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12 hours ago, GW8345 said:

 

Umm..........you do realize that no one is forcing you to click on this thread, you are doing that on your own free will so I don't understand why you are complaining about getting (probably) the only entertainment of your day by reading this thread.

 

Of course no one is forcing me - or you - to read this thread.   Thank you Captain Obvious !!!

 

Since this thread has devolved into what I see as an “accuracy lynching” I posted what I felt was an Accurate assessment of this thread. It is indeed a Train Wreck. I will refrain from red-lining the 3,564 posts (so far) to graphically illustrate my point.  I already have a full-time job. 

 

But please, don’t feel forced to read my reply...

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40 minutes ago, Doppelgänger said:

So, those who committed monetarily must be 5 or 6 modellers in the whole world

 

46 from Indiegogo that brought 4615$... IMHO these are just the ones who can claim some info or refund from AMK.

 

36 minutes ago, shion said:

But it was posted here:

 

So we can all go back ranting about release date and drawing red lines over old test shots (maybe I have missed this too, but that model have the same aileron-wing area shown in the first CAD images but no red line fancy art appeared that time).

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1 hour ago, Andrea Bolla said:

 

Official distributors should not have charged anyone for preorders, so the only ones monetarily committed are Indiegogo supporters and those who made preoders from non official distributors.

 

 

 

Have not seen any official release date from AMK other the one involved with the preorders target that was not achieved, so the only ones kinking ahead release date are seller still taking preorders. I hope to see the kit soon but AMK owes nothing to me  even if I paid for my preorder (it was my choice to order outside official distributors paying in advance).

 

 

 

+1

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