Zactoman Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 12 hours ago, B.Sin said: I'm so confused!!!😟 You're confused? I don't even know if I'm a "good guy" or a "bad guy", a "competitor" or "non-competitor", if I can make comments about the accuracy of the kit or not. I'll just state that I am not currently working with or for any model companies other than Zactomodels, which offers correction and detail sets, that if anything tend to boost kit sales for the companies whose kits I make parts for. That being said, I don't have much to say about the new pics other than I agree with Dylan and Flybywire that they don't seem to have changed anything. 4 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said: This is an ok picture for rear shape. The lighting in that pic is deceptive and would lead you to believe that the corner radius stays sharp and continues to the back top corner of the exhaust fairing. These pics show the shape much better. Note that both of these (F-14B) have an added raised panel (that clearly shows the cross section) that is not present on many airframes. (Crop from walk-around pic here: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/f-14b_163218/ ) (Crop from walk-around pic here: https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-14/f-14b_walk.shtml ) 13 hours ago, shion said: Last time they provided photos (of the same build), I thought the editing/cropping was weird, why cut images like that? I mentioned this previously. We still haven't seen good over-all views (including true side, front/rear, top and bottom) of the full kit either in plastic or CAD. I'm starting to suspect due to the missing kink, bladder issues and rear section issues that there may be some over-all geometry problem with the kit, but can't be sure because of all of the cropped shots. I look forward to the kit release to see if it's something that can be fixed by the modeler or if aftermarket is necessary(/possible). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Zactoman said: You're confused? I don't even know if I'm a "good guy" or a "bad guy", a "competitor" or "non-competitor", if I can make comments about the accuracy of the kit or not. I'll just state that I am not currently working with or for any model companies other than Zactomodels, which offers correction and detail sets, that if anything tend to boost kit sales for the companies whose kits I make parts for. That being said, I don't have much to say about the new pics other than I agree with Dylan and Flybywire that they don't seem to have changed anything. The lighting in that pic is deceptive and would lead you to believe that the corner radius stays sharp and continues to the back top corner of the exhaust fairing. These pics show the shape much better. Note that both of these (F-14B) have an added raised panel (that clearly shows the cross section) that is not present on many airframes. (Crop from walk-around pic here: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/f-14b_163218/ ) (Crop from walk-around pic here: https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-14/f-14b_walk.shtml ) I mentioned this previously. We still haven't seen good over-all views (including true side, front/rear, top and bottom) of the full kit either in plastic or CAD. I'm starting to suspect due to the missing kink, bladder issues and rear section issues that there may be some over-all geometry problem with the kit, but can't be sure because of all of the cropped shots. I look forward to the kit release to see if it's something that can be fixed by the modeler or if aftermarket is necessary(/possible). Word. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Zactoman said: The lighting in that pic is deceptive and would lead you to believe that the corner radius stays sharp and continues to the back top corner of the exhaust fairing. These pics show the shape much better. Note that both of these (F-14B) have an added raised panel (that clearly shows the cross section) that is not present on many airframes. ? It does not stay sharp in the kit part either. It is very much curvy after the tail mounting point. I put the picture to highlight the "edge" of the rear fuselage which has been the main point of the discussion, no? I actually think the lighting is great to show the edge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Has anyone looked at these areas on the Tamiya kit, or is it fatally flawed and we’re waiting on the AMK kit to be the Holy Grail of 1/48 Tomcats? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Dave Williams said: Has anyone looked at these areas on the Tamiya kit, or is it fatally flawed and we’re waiting on the AMK kit to be the Holy Grail of 1/48 Tomcats? re: Request for Dylan to post additional pics of the Tamiya kit for comparison: On 2/14/2019 at 4:45 AM, Zactoman said: I browsed through the builds in "The Display Case" sub-forum (some really nice ones there! ). From what I could tell they nailed all of the details I mentioned above. I'm tempted to pick one up despite never having time to build anything. 37 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said: ? It does not stay sharp in the kit part either. It is very much curvy after the tail mounting point. I put the picture to highlight the "edge" of the rear fuselage which has been the main point of the discussion, no? I actually think the lighting is great to show the edge. I noted my concern in the pic you posted in regards to the exhaust fairing area more-so than the side edge/radius. The kit is curvy, but it has the side edge radius behind the bump continue up and around, blending into the corner. It should drop down and fade away into the underlying shape as I tried to point out here. You can see this on the first cropped pic I posted above. The pic you posted doesn't show this due to the lighting. The pic you posted does show the straight section ahead of the bump, but doesn't clearly show the kink where the bladder starts which can be seen on the left side on the pic below. Edited March 11, 2019 by Zactoman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said: ? It does not stay sharp in the kit part either. It is very much curvy after the tail mounting point. I put the picture to highlight the "edge" of the rear fuselage which has been the main point of the discussion, no? I actually think the lighting is great to show the edge. I think that rear shot shows that the bladder area on the kit is far to high you can clearly see an upward curve in front of the stabilizer mount point. Im pretty worried this has pushed the wing up and may lead to geometry issues mid fuselage. Even in that photo of the kit you can see the intake tops look very very high relative to the canopy. I hope they put some overall images out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zactoman said: re: Request for Dylan to post additional pics of the Tamiya kit for comparison: your wish is my command. you will notice that on the Tamiya kit the stab is actually movable, as are the wings. to me on the AMK the whole fuselage section looks like it is too thick in the wing shoulder area, which would cause the bladders to require the swoop up to meet the back of the wing. also it would cause some of the weirdness toward the aft end. looking at the shot posted of the AMK kit it looks to me like the glove area forward of the wings are swept up slightly making it look like it is shrugging its shoulders, as if to say "why are you saying bad things about me" Edited March 11, 2019 by dylan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 One thing that comes straight to eye as well is the width of the section from the vertical stab to the edge of the fuselage. It could be camera distortion but that outer section looks far to narrow ie distance tail to horizontal stab hinge if a line is drawn vertically. That whole outer sponson looks narrow, very narrow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Zactoman said: I mentioned this previously. We still haven't seen good over-all views (including true side, front/rear, top and bottom) of the full kit either in plastic or CAD. I'm starting to suspect due to the missing kink, bladder issues and rear section issues that there may be some over-all geometry problem with the kit, but can't be sure because of all of the cropped shots. I look forward to the kit release to see if it's something that can be fixed by the modeler or if aftermarket is necessary(/possible). Yes, it's something we pointed out one year ago. Seems new photos have just confirm this theory. Real tomcat in TO/catapult mode: Last photo seems the best to show this point. Now AMK rendition of the same area: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Rather than speculate on parts and shapes based on a couple of photos, I'll be more than willing to pick one up once released and see how it looks for real. AMK will get at least one kit out of me. This speculating and guessing is silly and pointless. If and when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
is it windy yet? Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I may or may not purchase this kit. It will all be dependent upon it showing up on store shelf at a reasonable price, and some actual reviews of kit being easy to assemble. In this day and age I am not prepared to wrestle a kit into submission with putty, clamps, and prayers to a higher being. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F-16 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 So, AMK made the inflated bladder too...INFLATED... Hopefully someone tells AMK/Sio of this problem on Facebook, since they don't visit/post here anymore. Scott CNJC-IPMS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Thanks for the pictures of the Tamiya kit. So, the Tamiya kit is OK, then? If so, why all of the hoopla over the AMK kit? Sounds like we already have a good new tool 1/48 Tomcat available, so if the AMK kit comes out and it’s messed up, no loss for modellers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 53 minutes ago, Dave Williams said: Thanks for the pictures of the Tamiya kit. So, the Tamiya kit is OK, then? If so, why all of the hoopla over the AMK kit? Sounds like we already have a good new tool 1/48 Tomcat available, so if the AMK kit comes out and it’s messed up, no loss for modellers. because "mah wings gotta have dropped flaps or else it ain't good!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Piker38 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 ..................... unless the modeller wants to show flaps & slats deployed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, F-16 said: So, AMK made the inflated bladder too...INFLATED... Hopefully someone tells AMK/Sio of this problem on Facebook, since they don't visit/post here anymore. Scott CNJC-IPMS That is a **removable** piece. so the other option might be more of your taste :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Skull Leader said: because "mah wings gotta have dropped flaps or else it ain't good!" There is the KASL wing kit. I have one for my Tamiya F-14A. Some minor fit issues on the slats, nothing that can't be corrected. I modded them so I could remove the wings and install them after painting is done. The detail and finish on mine is equal to that on the kit itself. They aren't cheap, but I think they are worth it. The other option I considered was to get the AMK kit, use its wings on the Tamiya and build the AMK with wings swept. That was when we thought the AMK kit's release was imminent. Needless to say, that hasn't panned out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Seeing this mass urge for detailed wings I bet the GWH will try to please the audience too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 20 hours ago, Zactoman said: ....I'm starting to suspect due to the missing kink, bladder issues and rear section issues ..... At my age bladder issues are a real concern. I don’t need a model kit with the same issues !!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, habu2 said: At my age bladder issues are a real concern. I don’t need a model kit with the same issues !!!!!!! That's a good one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I could be mistaken, as I don't claim to follow every forum in the world, but having major manufacturers of any type discussing their products/ideas in an open forum is an uncommon phenomenon. I inserted "major" as I know it is fairly common for "cottage" companies to do this, both in the modeling world and elsewhere. I think having AMK come along and do this, was one of the reasons I was attracted to their brand in the first place. It seemed like it could be a fruitful relationship, to have the actual ear of a model company and could only serve to increase their responsiveness in my opinion. However, in retrospect it seems that it wasn't a very well thought out idea on anyone's part. It seems that when confronted with criticism (deserved or undeserved), it resulted in the folks behind AMK battening down the hatches so to speak and restricting their access and ultimately, their visibility. While I understand why they did what they did, it did not serve them well in the customer relations area. That along with some ill-advised schemes to help get the product to market, outright hyperbole and MANY unfulfilled promises on release dates have only tanked their reputation. While I am still a supporter of the brand as a whole, I surely would not consider for a second, the idea of per-ordering other kits from them (or for that matter anyone). Also, I do still hold out hope that when this kit IS finally released it will be worth the wait and I guess only time will prove me right or wrong. Either way, in for a penny in for a pound. Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Specter1075 said: The Google machine tells me that the F-14 engine guys had a skill code of 8345. All F-14 maintainers had the 8345 NEC, not just the engine guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, GW8345 said: All F-14 maintainers had the 8345 NEC, not just the engine guys. I'm going to play this number ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
punder Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, gtypecanare said: Any damned fool can criticize, but it takes a genius to design it in the first place.Edgar Schmued, Chief Designer North American Aviation. Excellent post. Thank you for that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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