shion Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Source: Hiroyuki Suzuki Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 That is some pretty impressive mold design. I do have to applaud the use of slide tech and out of the box thinking to eliminate seam lines. But one wonders if there was more emphasis on that side of the kit thus the reason for some of the apparent shape issues. And just for the record. Not everyone that is discussing the issues with the kit are simply hating on it for the sake of it. Some find it interesting and some are trying to establish what can be planned out as fixes for any issues. There's really no need for conflict from either side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 credit where credit is due, that is one really gorgeous looking piece of plastic. they really know how to cut steel molds at AMK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, niart17 said: That is some pretty impressive mold design. I do have to applaud the use of slide tech and out of the box thinking to eliminate seam lines. But one wonders if there was more emphasis on that side of the kit thus the reason for some of the apparent shape issues. That's an interesting thought, and a very good one at that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, niart17 said: That is some pretty impressive mold design. I do have to applaud the use of slide tech and out of the box thinking to eliminate seam lines. But one wonders if there was more emphasis on that side of the kit thus the reason for some of the apparent shape issues. And just for the record. Not everyone that is discussing the issues with the kit are simply hating on it for the sake of it. Some find it interesting and some are trying to establish what can be planned out as fixes for any issues. There's really no need for conflict from either side. Well, said. I too wonder if they got caught up with the technology for technology's sake. Trying to see how far they could push the envelope. It is an impressive piece of engineering. One hopes the cockpit will slide in and seat without problem. And, I am not nor have I ever "hated on" AMK or this kit. Just making critical observations and trying to interpret what I see, as I am sure most here are. I certainly would like AMK to succeed in this project, but it sure has taken some twists and turns, and certainly has taken it's own sweet time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dustiepal Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Their Mig-31 cockpits slide in just fine. It is really impressive how they can mold the 1 piece nose section. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mstor said: It is an impressive piece of engineering. It is but in engineering there are always pros and cons. Slide-mold pros: - surface detailing is more consistent between the side and top of the part - reduced parts count Slide-mold cons: - injection is more complex and more expensive - slight misalignment between mold parts will introduce steps in the parts - kit box needs to be deeper and packing the sprues in the box is like playing a 3D Tetris game https://imgur.com/4NajrK0 https://imgur.com/pLZoy0c Edited May 1, 2019 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 slightly off topic, but about the GWH kit, to have a timeline idea: First, announcement at the All-Japan Show, end of september 2017. with visual + 3D print prototype + sprues visual Then one year later (in sept 2018), at the same All-Japan Show, test build: And now, few days before the Shizuoka show, pics of full rate production plastic parts: http://www.moxingfans.com/test/other/2019/0427/5773.html So if GWH follow this pattern, we may have some news about their 1/48 kit at the Shizuoka show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 13 hours ago, Gun_Metal said: I am looking forward to a side-by-side review of Tamiya vs AMK vs GWH in this year 😄 It will be a lot of fun. I hope AMK will bring test molds to some modelling event by the end of the year, so later you can compare photos with Tamiya and GWH kits. Side-by-side Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Tapchan said: I hope AMK will bring test molds to some modelling event by the end of the year, so later you can compare photos with Tamiya and GWH kits. Side-by-side Haha i love this kind of humour. Subtle and refined. At first glace its a comment. At second read it a bomb !!!! 🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, shion said: slightly off topic, but about the GWH kit, to have a timeline idea: First, announcement at the All-Japan Show, end of september 2017. with visual + 3D print prototype + sprues visual Then one year later (in sept 2018), at the same All-Japan Show, test build: And now, few days before the Shizuoka show, pics of full rate production plastic parts: http://www.moxingfans.com/test/other/2019/0427/5773.html So if GWH follow this pattern, we may have some news about their 1/48 kit at the Shizuoka show. First glance, looks pretty good. Interesting parts breakdown. Looks like its set up so they can do multiple versions easily. Wonder if they'll do it the same way for the 1/48 kit. Edited May 1, 2019 by Mstor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sleepy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 On 4/30/2019 at 4:40 PM, dylan said: where did you hear that? if that is the case then why has the ifr probe door not been fixed? the rear fuselage is still wrong and the easiest of all fixes would be the aft end of the TARPS pod. all of these issues have not been dealt with. as far as I can tell there has been no retooling at all. I will be happy to have AMK prove me wrong. I am not going to hold my breath From someone who has been to AMK and seen the stuff first hand. I have no reason to believe he would lie about it. I have no idea why the IFR probe hasn’t been fixed, but from what I’m told the entire aft end of the fuselage had to be re-tooled, so maybe they just ran out of steam and money on the front end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joscasle Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 The panel lines are huge in that GWH 1/72 Tomcat. Just MHO!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoops Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, joscasle said: The panel lines are huge in that GWH 1/72 Tomcat. Just MHO!! 10 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: I'm all for new Tomcats, but if the 1/48 is going to be a scale up of the 1/72, it's a bit underwhelming. There's a lot of simplified detail, especially for a brand new kit. I'm sure it will still build up nicely, but it's not going make the top of the heap. Anyway, I though GWH was doing an A first in 1/48 scale. The aircraft that they had on display at the Tokyo Hobby Show last fall was not a test build, or even a test shot. It was a 3D printed place holder to show that they had a kit on the way, and if you look at the sprue shots in the link posted by schion, you will see that the panel lines on the actual plastic are really nice. They are on par with the recent 1/72 F-15 kits, which are by all accounts amazing. Hoops Edited May 2, 2019 by Hoops missing word Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Hoops said: The aircraft that had on display at the Tokyo Hobby Show last fall was not a test build, or even a test shot. It was a 3D printed place holder to show that they had a kit on the way . . . Hoops This shows exactly how easily people influenced by a "wrong" photo * (based on which they form opinion) of which picture they have little information (it had a different marketing and PR purpose and not one to show fine details). While when a chance is presented to go up and have a close look at the real thing only few use the opportunity. I mean F-14 kit parts shown at Moson last weekend. * "wrong" photo = from business point of view it was not wrong at all, it served its purpose as intended! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 hours ago, ya-gabor said: This shows exactly how easily people influenced by a "wrong" photo * (based on which they form opinion) of which picture they have little information (it had a different marketing and PR purpose and not one to show fine details). While when a chance is presented to go up and have a close look at the real thing only few use the opportunity. I mean F-14 kit parts shown at Moson last weekend. * "wrong" photo = from business point of view it was not wrong at all, it served its purpose as intended! Best regards Gabor Word. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Sleepy said: From someone who has been to AMK and seen the stuff first hand. I have no reason to believe he would lie about it. I have no idea why the IFR probe hasn’t been fixed, but from what I’m told the entire aft end of the fuselage had to be re-tooled, so maybe they just ran out of steam and money on the front end. According to the AMK rep, the entire aft end of the fuselage problem is only an optical illusion, and now they'd told you the same entire aft of the fuselage had to be re-tooled? Really? Edited May 2, 2019 by shion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) On 5/1/2019 at 3:37 AM, Darren Roberts said: I consider myself to be a serious F-14aphile, and I will be purchasing one. You make many good points in your post, but it is tainted with the hyperbole of someone who seems to have an ax to grind against AMK. Unless you put money down, AMK has done nothing to harm you personally. Why waste energy venting against a company that produces plastic toys? As I've said, the kit is what it is. If you don't like it, don't purchase it. If you still want to pick one up to see what it's like, go for it. I just don't understand the passion that's being leveled against the kit and company. Sorry didnt mean to come across like that maybe its the frustration in seeing a company who established a solid reputation for good engineering and research pouring it all down the drain. Its rare in the hobby you get a company who looked solid with good research and a nice base to launch from. The hyperbole was from many AmK fans who ignored plain issues and pretended they didnt exist. Amk was put on a pillar top as the best manufacturer today. Say one thing negative even negative in a constructive manner and you where labelled a heretic. A realistic assesment which several guys tried to give where shouted down as being anti AMK. This is far from the case. Almost every negative post was people highlighting deficiencies that for an F-14 needed to be improved if it was to be the kit everyone wanted and hoped for. We are not talking perfection here but a solid critique highlighting deficiencies in the Mig-31. Panel lines, soft missing cockpit detail where the two primary issues on for what was only the second kit from Amk a great start. Perfect..no...good yes...could be improved to compete with the best definitely. i have 6 Mig-31’s to build hardly that of someone with something against Amk other than wanting them to better themself which they needed to do. Instead of jumping on the back slapping bandwagon several people said clearly Amk needed to improve to compete or be the best. We where all shouted down as haters even though we had probably bought more Amk kits than any of the bandwagon boys. This left Amk thinking wow everyone loves us there is nothing we could do wrong. Realistically even if it was shape perfect they still needed a big step up in panel line quality and general cockpit/seat detail “if” they where to improve and compete with Tamiya. This entire design by internet commitee is a horses as@e. You pick 4-5 absolute experts and listen to them...only them. Keep it quiet and get it out. To much hype, to much net driven rubbish caused what happening here..if you listen to all those guys saying your the best, your perfect, your Mig-31 is the best kit ever then the result is whats happened here. Thats whats fristrating you could see this happening over a year ago...and the band played on and yes the Amk ship hit the F-14 iceberg at full speed. Hopefully they can plug the leaks and next time listen... Edited May 2, 2019 by dehowie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, dehowie said: Sorry didnt mean to come across like that maybe its the frustration in seeing a company who established a solid reputation for good engineering and research pouring it all down the drain. Its rare in the hobby you get a company who looked solid with good research and a nice base to launch from. The hyperbole was from many AmK fans who ignored plain issues and pretended they didnt exist. Amk was put on a pillar top as the best manufacturer today. Say one thing negative even negative in a constructive manner and you where labelled a heretic. A realistic assesment which several guys tried to give where shouted down as being anti AMK. This is far from the case. Almost every negative post was people highlighting deficiencies that for an F-14 needed to be improved if it was to be the kit everyone wanted and hoped for. We are not talking perfection here but a solid critique highlighting deficiencies in the Mig-31. Panel lines, soft missing cockpit detail where the two primary issues on for what was only the second kit from Amk a great start. Perfect..no...good yes...could be improved to compete with the best definitely. i have 6 Mig-31’s to build hardly that of someone with something against Amk other than wanting them to better themself which they needed to do. Instead of jumping on the back slapping bandwagon several people said clearly Amk needed to improve to compete or be the best. We where all shouted down as haters even though we had probably bought more Amk kits than any of the bandwagon boys. This left Amk thinking wow everyone loves us there is nothing we could do wrong. Realistically even if it was shape perfect they still needed a big step up in panel line quality and general cockpit/seat detail “if” they where to improve and compete with Tamiya. This entire design by internet commitee is a horses as@e. You pick 4-5 absolute experts and listen to them...only them. Keep it quiet and get it out. To much hype, to much net driven rubbish caused what happening here..if you listen to all those guys saying your the best, your perfect, your Mig-31 is the best kit ever then the result is whats happened here. Thats whats fristrating you could see this happening over a year ago...and the band played on and yes the Amk ship hit the F-14 iceberg at full speed. Hopefully they can plug the leaks and next time listen... Something important to add, to complete this description: When at one point last year, AMK threw under the bus the experts they used for the Tomcat, one of them reacted and talked about the fact AMK simply stopped communicate with him since the first steps of the project, years ago, after he made a list of inaccuracies on the model. Edited May 2, 2019 by shion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 47 minutes ago, shion said: Something important to add, to complete this description: When at one point last year, AMK threw under the bus the experts they used for the Tomcat, one of them reacted and talked about the fact AMK simply stopped communicate with him since the first steps of the project, years ago, after he made a list of inaccuracies on the model. Well, that's not polite! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 On 5/1/2019 at 2:32 AM, Laurent said: - slight misalignment between mold parts will introduce steps in the parts As can be seen in the canopy. 15 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: it's a bit underwhelming. LOL. You said exactly the same thing about the Tamiya kit when it was announced. And no, it's not going to be an exact scale up of the 1/72 kit because kit design doesn't work like that. Pretty sure you can look at their other 1/48 releases for a rough idea of what to expect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 8 hours ago, dehowie said: Sorry didnt mean to come across like that maybe its the frustration in seeing a company who established a solid reputation for good engineering and research pouring it all down the drain. Its rare in the hobby you get a company who looked solid with good research and a nice base to launch from. The hyperbole was from many AmK fans who ignored plain issues and pretended they didnt exist. Amk was put on a pillar top as the best manufacturer today. Say one thing negative even negative in a constructive manner and you where labelled a heretic. A realistic assesment which several guys tried to give where shouted down as being anti AMK. This is far from the case. Almost every negative post was people highlighting deficiencies that for an F-14 needed to be improved if it was to be the kit everyone wanted and hoped for. We are not talking perfection here but a solid critique highlighting deficiencies in the Mig-31. Panel lines, soft missing cockpit detail where the two primary issues on for what was only the second kit from Amk a great start. Perfect..no...good yes...could be improved to compete with the best definitely. i have 6 Mig-31’s to build hardly that of someone with something against Amk other than wanting them to better themself which they needed to do. Instead of jumping on the back slapping bandwagon several people said clearly Amk needed to improve to compete or be the best. We where all shouted down as haters even though we had probably bought more Amk kits than any of the bandwagon boys. This left Amk thinking wow everyone loves us there is nothing we could do wrong. Realistically even if it was shape perfect they still needed a big step up in panel line quality and general cockpit/seat detail “if” they where to improve and compete with Tamiya. This entire design by internet commitee is a horses as@e. You pick 4-5 absolute experts and listen to them...only them. Keep it quiet and get it out. To much hype, to much net driven rubbish caused what happening here..if you listen to all those guys saying your the best, your perfect, your Mig-31 is the best kit ever then the result is whats happened here. Thats whats fristrating you could see this happening over a year ago...and the band played on and yes the Amk ship hit the F-14 iceberg at full speed. Hopefully they can plug the leaks and next time listen... Well written sir! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 hours ago, MoFo said: As can be seen in the canopy. LOL. You said exactly the same thing about the Tamiya kit when it was announced. And no, it's not going to be an exact scale up of the 1/72 kit because kit design doesn't work like that. Pretty sure you can look at their other 1/48 releases for a rough idea of what to expect. I still stand by my comment that some of the details (I never said the kit as a whole) on the Tamiya kit are underwhelming. While the fit and surface detail is beautiful, they skimped on the cockpit, wheel bay, and chaff/flare dispenser detail. The whole hard wing thing never bothered me because I rarely build my Tomcats with the wings swept forward. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 the AMK forward fuselage looks very nice! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 4/30/2019 at 12:37 PM, Darren Roberts said: I consider myself to be a serious F-14aphile, and I will be purchasing one. You make many good points in your post, but it is tainted with the hyperbole of someone who seems to have an ax to grind against AMK. Unless you put money down, AMK has done nothing to harm you personally. Why waste energy venting against a company that produces plastic toys? As I've said, the kit is what it is. If you don't like it, don't purchase it. If you still want to pick one up to see what it's like, go for it. I just don't understand the passion that's being leveled against the kit and company. There could be perhaps a SMALL argument made that by setting expectations (both about kit accuracy and delivery timetable), AMK *has* harmed their potential customers from a business/marketing standpoint. AMK has boasted proudly that their kit would be the single most accurate Tomcat kit ever. Tomcat enthusiasts would obviously clamor for such an item, and it shouldn't come as any surprise when the fanbase takes the company to task when their product (prototype shots though they may be) doesn't deliver. That was a claim that Sio and company made in good faith, riding the waves of enthusiasm from those who (somehow) didn't feel their Tomcat modeling needs were being met. They made this claim and were unable to back it up. That was mistake #1. Secondly, the goalpost that was the release date was a line drawn in the sand and then moved back more than some prior presidential administrations. Once or even twice could be construed as an unforseen mistake. *everyone* is subject to the unknowns, after all... but it seemed to happen a lot, with deadline after deadline passing with no plastic in hand to show for it. That was mistake #2. Thirdly, on top of all that, besides some prototype shots that never really seemed to change or improve, the only feedback that we ever got was "It's coming soon guys, we promise!" with a lot of dodging and ducking of questions from potential customers. EMCON and a lack of transparency don't do AMK any favors. It shakes the faith of the potential customer base and leaves them wondering if AMK can deliver on any of their promises at all. Does AMK owe anyone any transparency or explanations for their silence or delay? No. No money has changed hands yet (that I know of), but when you make the claim that you're gonna release the best tomcat kit ever, and make initial attempts to engage the customer base with 3D models and continual progress with the prototype shots, when you suddenly go silent because you've hit snags it puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Most customers would much rather hear "Hey, we've read your feedback and have taken some things back to the drawing board. We want it to be right, so we're correcting it." than a company that ignores the outcry or worse still, hems and haws about it without really saying what's going on. so, I DO think there has been some harm. AMK's credibility has been shot down like a BF-109 over London, and a lot of people (even if they haven't paid money) made an emotional investiture to be excited about something... only to get hoofed right in the tackle for doing so. As a matter of principle, people SHOULD make their displeasure at these tactics known. We should discourage poor business practices in social media interactions and ultimately vote with our wallets when the product (finally) lands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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