B.Sin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Darren Roberts said: I think this is the root cause of much of the angst around this kit. This, and the whole "preorder" fiasco. If AMK had simply released this kit when it was ready, I think it would have been much more well-received, and the things listed as negatives would have been passing comments instead of deal breakers. Look how long we lived with the Hasegawa kit, and that has a myriad of issues. But no one really talks about them as deal-breakers and, aside from the fit, the Hasegawa kit is looked on as one of the nicer kits. In the end, AMK probably dropped the ball with the PR they did on this kit. They were trying to generate enthusiasm, but due to circumstances (either in or beyond their control...we'll never really know) that created a perfect storm, they got bit in rear. I hope they fixed the mistakes with the rear, and the refueling probe bay position. Edited June 19, 2019 by B.Sin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I see a GREAT potential in some of the molding techniques and design concepts that they've incorporated to this model. Some real out of the box thinking and great ideas like the one piece cockpit fuse section etc... I just think they might should have tackled that on a less "explosive" subject than the F-14. The Tomcat is one of those subject matters that, for better or worse, brings controversy when it's talked about, be that a model of it or just the plane itself. Some people LOVE the plane almost to a cult obsession and other's don't care for it and are glad they were shredded to make razors. I think the fact that AMK messed up the delivery timeframe, the PR and communication and apparently some overall inaccuracies on THIS plane might be the biggest down fall for them. Still, might be a great kit. Time will tell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: So, all negative and not a single positive? That speaks volumes about the bias you have with this kit. Let's address each one of your criticisms. It´s not a school science fair and I personnaly don´t expect free kits, so I don´t care pointing defaults when I see some. Quote - If the proportions of the headrest are off, it's not that noticeable. The seats are serviceable, especially if you're going to put aircrew in them. I would assume most will get aftermarket seats anyway. AMK seems to have problems with cockpit, headrest and ejection seat proportions and dimensions. Remember the kfir? http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/266036-the-148th-scale-kfir-showdown/ Quote - Most, if not all, Tomcat kits have step wells that are too shallow. The vast majority of builds will have them up, so it's a trivial thing. seem pretty deep for me. Quote - Which details are you referring to that are too shallow? The cockpit detail looks pretty decent to me. - Are there more pictures that I'm missing? There are only a couple of visible panel lines in the picture. I'm not sure any definitive conclusion can be drawn from this single picture. - If you a referring to the line beneath the canopy sill, you would be correct. - There are a lot lines on various models that exist but are invisible in real life. - I'm not sure "warped" is the correct term. You can't judge fit by one picture. We have no idea who put the parts together. We tend to think that everyone who works at a model company is a modeler. That is totally false. The lack of fit can very easily (and probably is) because of the builder, not the parts. if there´s a gap between two supposed perfectly plane surfaces, there´s a warpage problem. Take a look at all the relatively rare images of assembled parts in this kit. There are several build problems, noticeable gaps between parts. And it´s not 3d printed parts this time. Someone already talked about this, but it´s not a surprise how pictures released by AMK are so-so. And they had the same problem in the past... in the kfir kit. Edited June 19, 2019 by shion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, niart17 said: I just think they might should have tackled that on a less "explosive" subject than the F-14. The Tomcat is one of those subject matters that, for better or worse, brings controversy when it's talked about, be that a model of it or just the plane itself. Some people LOVE the plane almost to a cult obsession and other's don't care for it and are glad they were shredded to make razors. I Agreed, if it was something like a BF-109 or P-51 this would have all been moot Edited June 19, 2019 by zerosystem Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Tapchan said: Checkmate! It may not be a toy, but it is certainly a target. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, shion said: It´s not a school science fair and I personnaly don´t expect free kits, so I don´t care pointing defaults when I see some. AMK seems to have problems with cockpit, headrest and ejection seat proportions and dimensions. Remember the kfir? http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/266036-the-148th-scale-kfir-showdown/ seem pretty deep for me. if there´s a gap between two supposed perfectly plane surfaces, there´s a warpage problem. Take a look at all the relatively rare images of assembled parts in this kit. There are several build problems, noticeable gaps between parts. And it´s not 3d printed parts this time. Someone already talked about this, but it´s not a surprise how pictures released by AMK are so-so. And they had the same problem in the past... in the kfir kit. The step wells in the Tamiya kit are almost the exact same depth as on the AMK kit! Go back and look at the picture of the VF-1 jet. The wells are deeper than on the Tamiya kit. There's also the panel line running just below the canopy sill on the Tamiya kit that you pointed out shouldn't be there. I could literally make many of the same claims about the Tamiya kit from this picture that you made about the AMK kit. - step wells too shallow - engraved line that's invisible on the real thing - soft detail in the cockpit - fictional detail on the instrument and side panels - ejection/face curtain handles too thick/out of scale - no detail in the ladder bay - no throttle - canvas shroud covers lack detail/unrealistic Here's the deal. It's fine if you don't like AMK or their Tomcat. But at least be unbiased in your assessment if you're going to list things about it. The fact that you said the Tamiya step wells were plenty deep and the AMK were too shallow when they are almost identical shows the bias you have. Many people find AMK kits to be very nice, so they must be doing something right. Here's an exercise I'd like you try. You listed a string of negatives about the AMK kit. Find three to five positive aspects of the kit. That will create a much more balanced critique. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tapchan said: Checkmate! That's only check. Here's checkmate! Dictionary definition of toy: an object for a child to play with, typically a model or miniature replica of something. As far as the "child" part, my wife will attest that every modeler she has met is a child in an adult body. In regards to "play", we all know we play with our models during the build process. 😁 Edited June 19, 2019 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sleepy Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 11 hours ago, nachjager said: Looks more like a toy .... Which you can say about all the other AMK kits as far as I'm concerned. As much as people drool all over them, the very first thought I had when I opened the box on the very first AMK kit I saw (the L-29 Delfin), and which was exactly the same on every other AMK kit I have seen since is that the panel lines are way too coarse. To their credit, they're not mushy like a lot of Kinetic's stuff was (before they started their Gold line). They're nice and crisp, but they're far too big and heavy. The Kfir is the same, the MiG-31 is the same. And it looks like the F-14 is the same. I'm really looking forward to building the Tamiya kit, and to seeing what the Great Wall kit looks like. If Great Wall equals the type of surface detail they have done on their MiG-29 and their Su-35 kits, then AMK won't even be in the running. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sleepy Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 hours ago, B.Sin said: I hope they fixed the mistakes with the rear, and the refueling probe bay position. I seriously doubt it. With all the delays, and the stuff they've had to re-tool already, they are likely to lose their shirts on it as it is, much less if they have to keep making substantial changes to the tooling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: Here's an exercise I'd like you try. You listed a string of negatives about the AMK kit. Find three to five positive aspects of the kit. Does the entertainment value of this thread count as a positive ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) There is no perfect model. All of them have something to correct or improve. AMK is not the exception. It only remains to make the best effort. Calm down Edited June 19, 2019 by Manuel J. Armas S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Manuel J. Armas S. said: There is no perfect model. All of them have something to correct or improve. AMK is not the exception. It only remains to make the best effort. Calm down Word. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, habu2 said: Does the entertainment value of this thread count as a positive ??? That counts for about ten positives! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 The number of apologists in this thread is staggering. "The seats were probably meant for pilots..." "In the end, I won't notice, and neither will anyone else..." And so on. Arent we a little past this point? Besides... AMK proudly proclaimed that this would be the best, most accurate Tomcat kit ever. Shouldn't they be made to learn from such marketing errors? How can they improve if they are not edified? If everyone tries to sweep it under the rug, where is the incentive for AMK to step up their game? From everything I've seen, it's about on the level of the hobby boss kit... certainly not the worst kit on the market, but definitely in no danger of being the best and most accurate. I can find better kits for likely much cheaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 23 minutes ago, Skull Leader said: The number of apologists in this thread is staggering. "The seats were probably meant for pilots..." "In the end, I won't notice, and neither will anyone else..." And so on. Arent we a little past this point? Besides... AMK proudly proclaimed that this would be the best, most accurate Tomcat kit ever. Shouldn't they be made to learn from such marketing errors? How can they improve if they are not edified? If everyone tries to sweep it under the rug, where is the incentive for AMK to step up their game? From everything I've seen, it's about on the level of the hobby boss kit... certainly not the worst kit on the market, but definitely in no danger of being the best and most accurate. I can find better kits for likely much cheaper. word Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) Did AMK ever mention a possibility of releasing an F-14B? I already have a Hasegawa A & D so I'd rather get a B if possible (plus it wouldn't require many changes to the D kit). Tamiya seems pricey to me given the lack of extra options (e.g. flaps and slats) and the toy-like cockpit detail so I'm not even considering that one. On the other hand, was waiting for this kit for so long that I'll probably end up getting it as soon as I find a good deal on it (would have pre-ordered it, but the local shop pulled the preorder option quickly, I guess they learned it will get delayed and what not). Edited June 20, 2019 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, ijozic said: Did AMK ever mention a possibility of releasing an F-14B? I already have a Hasegawa A & D so I'd rather get a B if possible (plus it wouldn't require many changes to the D kit). Tamiya seems pricey to me given the lack of extra options (e.g. flaps and slats) and the toy-like cockpit detail so I'm not even considering that one. On the other hand, was waiting for this kit for so long that I'll probably end up getting it as soon as I find a good deal on it (would have pre-ordered it, but the local shop pulled the preorder option quickly, I guess they learned it will get delayed and what not). A/B and D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Manuel J. Armas S. said: A/B and D Was there some recent confirmation that they're still planning on doing all three? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 15 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: In regards to "play", we all know we play with our models during the build process. Only when no one is close enough to hear me make the noises🤩 As for the Kit for me they missed the mark from a release standpoint. I have enough D's for now. I will buy just one unless the price is so low I can't pass it up. It will be a good value if they stay around a 70.00 MSRP. At this point I'm really waiting for the B model to be released. I'd likely buy a dozen of those 🤑 Hopefully it won't be 3 YEARS of waiting....😱 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 hours ago, zerosystem said: Agreed, if it was something like a BF-109 or P-51 this would have all been moot LOL Touche' , But I'm NOT saying it's the only aircraft that this type of flak would have happened to. But you have to admit the Tomcat carries an atmosphere around it's discussions. As does the BF-109 and the P-51 etc... I think those arguments would have been along the lines of "Do we really need another ______?" Which I find those points of view equally puzzling and as entertaining so maybe it would make it to page 182 as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 hours ago, ijozic said: Was there some recent confirmation that they're still planning on doing all three? Let’s see if they can get one kit released before worrying about multiple versions.... 😂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 On 6/18/2019 at 7:08 PM, Raptor01 said: Eduard’s F-14 will be released sooner than AMK’s Will this just be a rebox of the AMK sprues with new decals or will it also include photo-etch details and resin correction parts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keroburner89 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Eduards releasing an F-14 as well???!!! Anyone got any links or info on this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Didn't they already release one using the HobbyBoss kit? Or was it the Academy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Keroburner89 said: Eduards releasing an F-14 as well???!!! Anyone got any links or info on this? With shrunken weapons? 🤣 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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