Andrea Bolla Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Mstor said: Interesting delide. I don't know how valid these kind of comparisons are, but I will say that I had noticed the low canopy in a number of photos of the AMK kit builds. Hadn't said anything as I didn't know if what I was seeing was caused by some issue with the photo or not. But now... very interesting. Thanks for posting. What we need now is someone to take some measurements of both the AMK and Tamiya kits. Canopy is not too low, it seems too short in proportions (sorry for the poor quality): Easy to find out If someone can measure both Tamiya and AMK canopies... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Andrea Bolla said: Canopy is not too low, it seems too short in proportions (sorry for the poor quality): Easy to find out If someone can measure both Tamiya and AMK canopies... Wow, thanks for the new picture! It looks like that the drawing has been scaled down in length till the canopies match? That would mean that the proportion of the entire front would be off, if the total length of the kit is correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Jonathan_Lotton said: Because, like I said, they lied to their customers and acted in intentionally deceptive business practices I am critical of them because they need to be held accountable, not rewarded. Well, since you haven't pre ordered the kit nor plan to purchase it, by definition you are not a customer. So your interest in looking out for me, as one who has pre ordered 5 and prepaid for two, while admirable is totally unwanted, nor needed. I have read your claims about how "AMK lied and misled their customers" however all they are really guilty of is hyperbole and if that is now a crime in this day and age of arguments over crowd and hand sizes, then you better start building a million more prisons. And once again, since you are not, nor do you intend to be a customer, I believe your feigned outrage is simply being used to mask your overt hostility for the company. Also, their business practices would ONLY be considered deceptive if they took money for something they had no intention to deliver. I think they've made it clear they intend to release this kit, come hell or high water, much I am sure to your chagrin. Now as to whether the kit will be accurate or even as you've quoted, "THE most accurate Tomcat produced," well the jury is out and I suspect even if it were THE most accurate, the T fanboys would howl at the outrage, facts be damned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Manuel J. Armas S. said: Sincere Hobby 1/48 Grumman F-14D Tomcat Estimated Launch Date: 30-09-2019 (Pre-Order) The same old story begins... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LyIgor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Manuel J. Armas S. said: Sincere Hobby 1/48 Grumman F-14D Tomcat Estimated Launch Date: 30-09-2019 (Pre-Order) Yes, when it finally will be released! 😀 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, madmanrick said: Well, since you haven't pre ordered the kit nor plan to purchase it, by definition you are not a customer. So your interest in looking out for me, as one who has pre ordered 5 and prepaid for two, while admirable is totally unwanted, nor needed. I have read your claims about how "AMK lied and misled their customers" however all they are really guilty of is hyperbole and if that is now a crime in this day and age of arguments over crowd and hand sizes, then you better start building a million more prisons. And once again, since you are not, nor do you intend to be a customer, I believe your feigned outrage is simply being used to mask your overt hostility for the company. Also, their business practices would ONLY be considered deceptive if they took money for something they had no intention to deliver. I think they've made it clear they intend to release this kit, come hell or high water, much I am sure to your chagrin. Now as to whether the kit will be accurate or even as you've quoted, "THE most accurate Tomcat produced," well the jury is out and I suspect even if it were THE most accurate, the T fanboys would howl at the outrage, facts be damned. Well, let me explain something to you I DID pre-order the kit, the vendor I pre-ordered TWO from kindly let me out of my obligation and refunded the deposit because of the delays. I *was* going to be a customer, I had *committed* to being a customer, I *have* purchased a MiG-32 and Kfir from them. I'm not speaking for you, I don't care if you order 25 of the damn things from them, I personally do not appreciate the way they treated the community so I personally will continue my criticism, as will others. Thus far AMK has not admitted they acted in a deceptive manner, or even that they straight up lied (IE "fixing issues in the test shots" when they didn't at all). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrea Bolla Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, delide said: Wow, thanks for the new picture! It looks like that the drawing has been scaled down in length till the canopies match? That would mean that the proportion of the entire front would be off, if the total length of the kit is correct. I just tried to extract the overlay from the picture posted above and scaled the underlying image to match the windscreen edge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, Andrea Bolla said: I just tried to extract the overlay from the picture posted above and scaled the underlying image to match the windscreen edge. I see, the photo of the kit has been stretched out, nice job! Looks like the canopy may be too short indeed, that would be a proportion issue of the entire front then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrea Bolla Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, delide said: I see, the photo of the kit has been stretched out, nice job! Looks like the canopy may be too short indeed, that would be a proportion issue of the entire front then. It's possible; several pages ago someone commented about the position of the steps relative to the intake lip... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, niart17 said: Seriously though, it's funny how people think if they are not interested in, or are a little annoyed with a thread that they feel has no value, then their answer isn't "I'm not interested I think I'll skip clicking on this today". Their answer is "This thread makes no sense and has little value to me (therefore can't have value to anyone else...hmmm?) so I think this thread should be removed and/or closed from people posting in it. It's gone on far too long for anyone to find it useful". Meanwhile it's the highest viewed thread on this site. So yeah, obviously nobody is interested in it. That's why they keep coming to it. To show their lack of interest. Reminds me of the old saying by Yogi Berra "nobody goes there, it's too crowded." This thread is like watching a train wreck- I just can’t look away.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, habu2 said: This thread is like watching a train wreck- I just can’t look away.... I hear ya. BUT if you really get down to it and ignore all the back and forth about what should and should not be posted...there really is a lot of very interesting information and conversation about not only this model and the manufacturing techniques used, but also about F-14's in general. It's actually quite an interesting thread. And sure, if goes a little sideways from time to time. But what else is new? Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Jonathan_Lotton said: Well, let me explain something to you I DID pre-order the kit, the vendor I pre-ordered TWO from kindly let me out of my obligation and refunded the deposit because of the delays. I *was* going to be a customer, I had *committed* to being a customer, I *have* purchased a MiG-32 and Kfir from them. I'm not speaking for you, I don't care if you order 25 of the damn things from them, I personally do not appreciate the way they treated the community so I personally will continue my criticism, as will others. Thus far AMK has not admitted they acted in a deceptive manner, or even that they straight up lied (IE "fixing issues in the test shots" when they didn't at all). As I suspected, some people just want to watch the world burn, to (mis)quote Alfred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Andrea Bolla said: I just tried to extract the overlay from the picture posted above and scaled the underlying image to match the windscreen edge. The 3 Grumman F-14A drawings shown above (each over 10,000 X 4,000 pixels) can be purchased ($3.00) and downloaded here: http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/ Here is one of the best side profile pics I've found of the nose section of an F-14D: https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Navy/Grumman-F-14D-Tomcat/842204/L The drawings are a very close match to the photo. The rear canopy on the photo is slightly taller (more blown) than the drawing, but I seem to recall reading that the D did have a taller rear canopy than the A (can any knowledgable Tomcat fans confirm?). I haven't had time to do any analysis since photos of the completed build were released. Areas that caught my eye were the nose, canopy and wing gloves. I'm also curious as to why there is a big gap between the slat and glove. Do the separate slats actually match up to the wing? Do they match the slats on the wings that have them molded closed? I'm waiting to see a build with the wings swept to see how the wing position will impact fixing the rear section. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FlyAndFight Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 This thread has become the Kramer painting of ARC... “It is a loathsome, offensive thread. Yet I can’t look away.” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said: Because, like I said, they lied to their customers and acted in intentionally deceptive business practices I am critical of them because they need to be held accountable, not rewarded. Still, two wrongs never made a right Glt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Zactoman said: I haven't had time to do any analysis since photos of the completed build were released. Looking forward to when you can find the time to do so. Nice to know that the Grumman drawings appear to be fairly accurate. Makes them a reasonable starting point for comparison to both the AMK and Tamiya kits. This is the kind of analysis that I look for. It is, unfortunately, beyond my abilities to do on my own. I am grateful that you and other knowledgeable people can take the time to do the "grunt work" of this kind of analysis. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Zactoman said: The 3 Grumman F-14A drawings shown above (each over 10,000 X 4,000 pixels) can be purchased ($3.00) and downloaded here: http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/ Here is one of the best side profile pics I've found of the nose section of an F-14D: https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Navy/Grumman-F-14D-Tomcat/842204/L The drawings are a very close match to the photo. The rear canopy on the photo is slightly taller (more blown) than the drawing, but I seem to recall reading that the D did have a taller rear canopy than the A (can any knowledgable Tomcat fans confirm?). I haven't had time to do any analysis since photos of the completed build were released. Areas that caught my eye were the nose, canopy and wing gloves. I'm also curious as to why there is a big gap between the slat and glove. Do the separate slats actually match up to the wing? Do they match the slats on the wings that have them molded closed? I'm waiting to see a build with the wings swept to see how the wing position will impact fixing the rear section. Yes, the F-14D did have a different canopy then the one used on the F-14A/B. The difference was that it was slightly taller in the back and the thickness of the plexiglass was thinner (to allow the seat to eject through the canopy). Note: the windscreen stayed the same for all Tomcats, just the canopy's were different. You could put a F-14D canopy on a F-14A/B (it was done, saved one pilots life in one case) but it was illegal to put a F-14A/B canopy on a Delta due to the fact that the plexiglass was thicker and the seat would have a harder time punching through it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, FlyAndFight said: This thread has become the Kramer painting of ARC... “It is a loathsome, offensive thread. Yet I can’t look away.” BAHAHA!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 11 hours ago, Mstor said: That is why I added a caveat to my comment about the overlays. Even drawings from the manufacturer can be off or inaccurate. I just found it interesting that the drawings showed the AMK canopy too be too low compared to the Tamiya and there is photographic evidence confirming it. Again, it does not prove anything. We need measurements of both kits to determine if there is, in fact, a discrepancy, and if so, further research to determine who's is more accurate. Let's just say for now that something is worth following up on. OK? A factory drawing is not a blue print! Blueprints are accurate in shape and layout. Drawings are just a work aid, and not anything more. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 hours ago, FlyAndFight said: This thread has become the Kramer painting of ARC... “It is a loathsome, offensive thread. Yet I can’t look away.” You WIN! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Zactoman said: The 3 Grumman F-14A drawings shown above (each over 10,000 X 4,000 pixels) can be purchased ($3.00) and downloaded here: http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/ Here is one of the best side profile pics I've found of the nose section of an F-14D: https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Navy/Grumman-F-14D-Tomcat/842204/L The drawings are a very close match to the photo. The rear canopy on the photo is slightly taller (more blown) than the drawing, but I seem to recall reading that the D did have a taller rear canopy than the A (can any knowledgable Tomcat fans confirm?). I haven't had time to do any analysis since photos of the completed build were released. Areas that caught my eye were the nose, canopy and wing gloves. I'm also curious as to why there is a big gap between the slat and glove. Do the separate slats actually match up to the wing? Do they match the slats on the wings that have them molded closed? I'm waiting to see a build with the wings swept to see how the wing position will impact fixing the rear section. Thanks... There picture over AMK model. Looks spot on even though AMK model actually has an angle. It would actually fit even better if the model was pictured better: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mario krijan Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, ChesshireCat said: A factory drawing is not a blue print! Blueprints are accurate in shape and layout. Drawings are just a work aid, and not anything more. Gary Word. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Mstor said: I wonder who has contributed more to this thread? Those who actually discuss the model and the potential issues or its features, or those that complain about the thread? Or we can spin this to e.g. 'I wonder who has contributed less to this thread? Those who complain about the way this particular model accuracy is discussed in the thread or those who complain about the former'. Complaining about complaining seems to take a big chunk of the posts, including your good buddy there. This self-indulging us vs them attitude is only going to produce more and more clutter (this post included). Edited September 18, 2019 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, ijozic said: Or we can spin this to e.g. 'I wonder who has contributed less to this thread? Those who complain about the way this particular model accuracy is discussed in the thread or those who complain about the former'. Complaining about complaining seems to take a big chunk of the posts, including your good buddy there. This self-indulging us vs them attitude is only going to produce more and more clutter (this post included). Yes, you're right. I apologize for the post. I thought it would be a humorous idea, but it only contributed to the negativity. I was wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said: There picture over AMK model. Looks spot on even though AMK model actually has an angle. It would actually fit even better if the model was pictured better: Your overlay actually gives weight to the assumption that the canopy is too short and you did this without using the Grumman drawings but the photo of an actual aircraft. Materialize the rear edge of the canopy and see for yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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