habu2 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 These asymmetric scribing mistakes seem like something that would result from rushing a kit to market. However... I don’t see how anyone could say that, at 4+ years in the making, this kit was rushed to market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Zactoman said: On page 2 the VF-2 build has modified slats that are only partially extended. I had saved some pics of that build and that's what I has going on. That's what confused me. Thanks for clarifying that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Was just down in the In Progress forum and looking at the Tamiya F-14 build there. It is amazing the difference in the how fine and clean the Tamiya details are. They put the AMK panel lines and rivets to shame. The AMK details look crude and amateurish compared to Tamiya's. I am really beginning to wonder if I even want to build the kit I bought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Mstor said: Was just down in the In Progress forum and looking at the Tamiya F-14 build there. It is amazing the difference in the how fine and clean the Tamiya details are. They put the AMK panel lines and rivets to shame. The AMK details look crude and amateurish compared to Tamiya's. I am really beginning to wonder if I even want to build the kit I bought. yes you should, and give us an unbiased opinion of how the kit is. so far I haven't seen any in progress builds from regular people that bought the kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janman Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 6 hours ago, dylan said: yes you should, and give us an unbiased opinion of how the kit is. so far I haven't seen any in progress builds from regular people that bought the kit. +1! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 12 hours ago, Hubbie Marsten said: Careful now, fellas, as the British @terrysumner over on Britmodeller has chosen to close the AMK Tomcat thread for posting. It might as well happen to us on here, huh, Terry...? Good move by Julien @Hubbie Marsten Present the actual facts before you go around starting fires where and when they shouldn't belong. @Zactoman No one shut down anything to suppress free speech. That's reaching pretty far. The thread in BM was closed for a simple reason. That specific thread was in their "Rumourmonger" sub-forum and since it is no longer a rumour as the kit has been released, no need to keep it open. The moderators close threads with every product that is finally released all the time. If a discussion is still warranted on that website I'm sure someone will bring it up in a different sub-forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Matvey Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 One more detail regarding slats. The F-14 wing has slight "kink" in the area of second slat rail (counting from fuselage). In other words, the front edge of the wing is not straight line from forward point of view. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Whiskey said: The thread in BM was closed for a simple reason. That specific thread was in their "Rumourmonger" sub-forum and since it is no longer a rumour as the kit has been released, no need to keep it open. The moderators close threads with every product that is finally released all the time. Please don't be so easily manipulated, that is just what he wants you to believe, which is simply not true, usually they never lock the thread once the kits are released!! The Rumourmonger sub forum has 170 pages right now, they are not all active rumours you know, go to the page 169 for example, you can still reply to a thread about the "rumoured" Mirage 2000 by Kinetic!! So don't be so naive and believe everything you are told, otherwise there will be no free speech indeed. I guess it's simply too much trouble to close threads with every product that is finally released all the time, so they just never bothered to do it. Anyway, the advantage is that any planned aftermarket items for a released kit, new decals, correction sets, details sets, etc., can be added at any time, no need to create a new thread for every items or request to unlock! Edited November 7, 2019 by delide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) Just to make a point here fellows. The concept of "free speech", at least here in the U.S. is only pertaining to government influence on speech. It has nothing to do with a privately run forum such as this, and I assume Britmodeler. So MAYBE they are preventing a free exchange of ideas (I have no idea) but they have every right to do so. The only course of action that I'm aware of would be to stop using their service or just accept it for what it is. Just thought I'd point that out. Carry on. I am surprised about the wing rivet detail missing etc... That's not something you see very often on a newly molded kit. I could see it maybe on a set of really old molds and the details got worn, but this is brand new. And I don't think it's a case of a short-shot sample of the kit. I think if it were there would be surface irregularities. To me, that looks like the molds just weren't machined in that area very well. Isn't AMK also a mold making company or do they just do the injection process and have the molds machined elsewhere? Edited November 7, 2019 by niart17 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, delide said: Please don't be so easily manipulated, that is just what he wants you to believe, which is simply not true, usually they never lock the thread once the kits are released!! The Rumourmonger sub forum has 170 pages right now, they are not all active rumours you know, go to the page 169 for example, you can still reply to a thread about the "rumoured" Mirage 2000 by Kinetic!! So don't be so naive and believe everything you are told, otherwise there will be no free speech indeed. I guess it's simply too much trouble to close threads with every product that is finally released all the time, so they just never bothered to do it. Anyway, the advantage is that any planned aftermarket items for a released kit, new decals, correction sets, details sets, etc., can be added at any time, no need to create a new thread for every items or request to unlock! Yes because there's a conspiracy behind every door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Whiskey said: Yes because there's a conspiracy behind every door. No, I'm only pointing out what is not true, that the bolded part is not true, that's not a conspiracy, because believe me or not, there are plenty of active threads about released kits for all to see, even on the 1st/latest page there... My point was that if we are easily manipulated and there will be no different speech to start off with. Edited November 7, 2019 by delide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Whatever guys, but please don't get this thread locked now. Yes, partially because of the novelty of getting to 300, it's a fun distraction from things here. But the main reason is now there is some really useful information being shown and discussed about the actual kit. Zacto is starting to do a really thorough look in to potential pitfalls and suggested fixes. THIS is what these discussion boards are all about. I'd hate to see some quibbling about locked threads on other sites be the downfall of this thread. Just sayin'. Please keep it on target. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 On 9/26/2019 at 7:21 PM, GW8345 said: That is a Bravo, not sure if a VX-9 Delta ever wore that scheme so that maybe why they didn't include it. Diggin deep 😄 I've found that F-14D, XF-254, BuNo. 164599 actually had it. The grey and finish is of course different to XF-240 but the rest is the same. It was included in Fightertown's 48004 which is, unfortunately, unavailable anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flybywire Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 13 hours ago, habu2 said: These asymmetric scribing mistakes seem like something that would result from rushing a kit to market. However... I don’t see how anyone could say that, at 4+ years in the making, this kit was rushed to market. I think it's more of lack of quality control and lack of research work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, niart17 said: Whatever guys, but please don't get this thread locked now. Yes, partially because of the novelty of getting to 300, it's a fun distraction from things here. But the main reason is now there is some really useful information being shown and discussed about the actual kit. Zacto is starting to do a really thorough look in to potential pitfalls and suggested fixes. THIS is what these discussion boards are all about. I'd hate to see some quibbling about locked threads on other sites be the downfall of this thread. Just sayin'. Please keep it on target. +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, flybywire said: I think it's more of lack of quality control and lack of research work. Nah, similar problem as with engine nacelle details. Both sides differ from each other, one is crude, with just simple details and other one seem to be "polished". Not everyone may be aware, but the kit development was a long process. It could be that between preparing responding matrixes for each side the digital model got some improvements. Or there were more than one iterations of matrixes and someone mixed them. Edited November 7, 2019 by Tapchan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tapchan said: Nah, similar problem as with engine nacelle details. Both sides differ from each other, one is crude, with just simple details and other one seem to be "polished". Not everyone may be aware, but the kit development was a long process. It could be that between preparing responding matrixes for each side the digital model got some improvements. Or there were more than one iterations of matrixes and someone mixed them. Not to quibble, but that sounds like a lack of quality control. Improvements made as the design goes should be incorporated across the board. Not just to future designed parts. Just my opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Terry has already established an agreement with AMK to censor posts on ARC. It’s not a conspiracy, Sio shared screenshots of his conversation with Terry on FB last year Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 From this point of view it's quality control issue, agree. We've heared some rumors here that they may have been out of money at some point which made production process take so long. It can be that during this time they kept improving the 3d drawing and afterwards, when they got more funds they completely forgot to update already prepared matrixes. In the rush and under public pression most likely they just missed this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrysumner Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 18 hours ago, Hubbie Marsten said: Careful now, fellas, as the British @terrysumner over on Britmodeller has chosen to close the AMK Tomcat thread for posting. It might as well happen to us on here, huh, Terry...? Good move by Julien Thats not me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, niart17 said: Whatever guys, but please don't get this thread locked now. Yes, partially because of the novelty of getting to 300, it's a fun distraction from things here. But the main reason is now there is some really useful information being shown and discussed about the actual kit. Zacto is starting to do a really thorough look in to potential pitfalls and suggested fixes. THIS is what these discussion boards are all about. I'd hate to see some quibbling about locked threads on other sites be the downfall of this thread. Just sayin'. Please keep it on target. But the irony is that with useful information only you'd be way off your targeted 300 pages. For me it's also about the truth, for a long time people tried to dismiss the kit's issues as illusions/fictions, for me a discussion forum should help to reveal the truth not the opposite, so even unrelated to the kit I just can't let that one by. Now you guys can keep it on target, now that the issues seem to be well acknowledged, I admit have nothing useful to add, personally the fix would be very simple(Tamiya or maybe GWH), I'm only curious to watch what else Zactoman or others will be revealing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 The only time this forum was locked or people banned is when the discourse devolved into name calling, personal attacks and outright nastiness towards others. I am not a moderator (nor do I ever desire to be one), of this forum or any other, but I think the discourse if confined to the actual plastic and what is or is not wrong with it, is perfectly fine. If the personal attacks, name calling etc. are kept out of it we should be good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 What baffles me is how AMK can have one side of the model exhibit something and the other look like it was preliminary at best? If one wing was engraved properly, wouldn't you just transpose those details to the other side (assuming those details are the same)? I can't imagine the details differ from the left wing to the right. The engine nacelles? Perhaps those details do differ from one side to the other? But, again what we are seeing is an example of sloppy work in the design stage AND not indicative of a quality kit. Although the shape errors are vexing, I can at least understand how those could be a function of whatever drawings, etc. AMK may have used. But, the difference in the panel lines is just pure sloppiness and more indicative of a HobbyCrap kit, than something molded in 2019. You also can't justify those kinds of mistakes, since it isn't a problem of interpretation or aesthetic. I always said judge the plastic and the first votes are in and it ain't good for the incumbent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Zactoman said: We're discussing a popular model subject on a model discussion forum and doing so in a civil maner. Why would you want to shut down free speech? The slats do angle downward: You can see 3 different finished builds here; https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235061980-148-amk-usn-vf-31-f-14d-super-tomcat-tomcatters/ The VF-31 build includes a top view. Nice build but note that the angle of the left slat is a bit different than that on the right. On page 2 the VF-2 build has modified slats that are only partially extended. Towards the bottom of page 2 there is a VF-213 build with fully extended slats. I previously asked why there was a big gap between the inboard slat edge and the wing root but nobody with the kit replied. I think I've figured out why. Note the difference between the red line and the slat at the root and towards the wingtip and angle the slat sits at: I don't have measurements but they should be closer to parallel with only a slight angle, something like this: Note how changing the angle reduced the big gap between the slat and the root. To fix this the modeler is going to need to extend the slots the slats fit into and tweak the slat guide rails. Thank you for taking a look, it just looked off to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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