Hubbie Marsten Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, shion said: Modelers engaged by AMK to promote the kit, struggle with it, to the point they had to choose the right pictures and weirdest angles to not show accuracy issues and assembling issues. i.e., "don't show just how fat the rear hinds are?". Yesterday that I rejoiced my day off work, my wife out to work and only the dog to nag about, I was having some fun with the Heatblur F-14B on DCS. The simulation showed how well they've nailed the rear end on their rendition of the aircraft, I was wondering why AMK was such an epic fail. Only trouble is Jester keeps on going AWOL as soon as he thinks his life's in danger; filled the Heatblur forums with complaints regarding this and some of the members there started defending the firm. It suddenly reminded me of some of you here defending AMK, with the denial with regard to the kit issues, than I quit the simulation. But it makes me wonder... Why are there people so biased about stuff that's awful wrong? What's in it for them? I don't usually build my kits by the instruction sheet either, so don't push so hard on Salomon, as he's just new to this forum. Let him just get to know who the loony fellas are on this joint before he's asked to comply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, shion said: very few builds elsewhere. There are several in progress builds of the kit on many of the Facebook modeling pages. Just because YOU don't see them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Here's a thought, how about YOU build the kit and provide the group with actual firsthand knowledge of its problems? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Well... wow, this is really getting weird here. Terry, just pull all the stops out and maybe we can get to 300 in a week or two. It'll get really hard to read, but I'm really interested to see if AMK will really give the first to make 300 pages a kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Hubbie Marsten said: do you mind elaborating on how to fix the rotor issue in the Kitty Hawk UH-1N Simple, you just replace them with the wings from the AMK F-14 kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 hours ago, Hubbie Marsten said: That's quite a smart move, Solo. Congratulations on a very good decision. It makes one less frustrated modeller who only got sold a shapeless, infamous and lame cloud-of-smoke hype - with beautiful dirty wings, that is. Had I been in the AMK camp, I'd have cancelled the F-14D kit flop forever and had just released the dirty wings as a set for the Tamiya kit instead, in order to try and compensate for the awful losses. The dirty wings and the ordnance crap. But that's just me. So what you're saying is that if one DOESN'T sell their AMK Tomcat, they aren't making a smart move or a good decision? And you wonder why the "Just Build It" crowd hurls insults at the "Rivet Counters". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Hubbie Marsten said: Now THIS I'm interested in; do you mind elaborating on how to fix the rotor issue in the Kitty Hawk UH-1N, Dave? Is this issue carried out in the UH-1D kit as well? I robbed the main rotor from the Italeri UH-1N, which is correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, zerosystem said: You really want to bury the company don't you... Yes, he and a few others have made that clear for a while now. It's beyond ridiculous. But, even worse is that when anyone disagrees with their vitriol, they are slammed as being company shills or worse. Shameful and in my opinion, those that continue to berate others should be banned over their repeated personal attacks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Roof said: Here's a thought, how about YOU build the kit and provide the group with actual firsthand knowledge of its problems? Dave, to coin a phrase "those that can't do, criticize" (or in the military parlance, teach). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Mstor said: Well... wow, this is really getting weird here. Terry, just pull all the stops out and maybe we can get to 300 in a week or two. It'll get really hard to read, but I'm really interested to see if AMK will really give the first to make 300 pages a kit. Of course they will. Any press is good Press 😄 go AMK!!! Please release a Mig 1.44 or Su-47 in 1/48. PLEASE!!!@!@@!!!! I will buy 10 of them. each. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, shion said: If you don't have assembling problems yet, why didn't you follow the instruction manual build sequence? And if you look the build photos I posted 2 pages ago, the aera you are showing is one with fewer issues, the builder only used surfacer 1000 to fill the lateral gaps and some polyputty for the beaver tail. Show us how you deal with the whole intakes-bottom fuselage assembly or the joint front fuselage-main body. YEahhhhh. how dare you use your brain! 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 hours ago, shion said: Please show us. Why? You show yours first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 This thread now needs an 18+ warning with all these "show me yours" propositions LOL! Meh, what do I know...I still enjoy building Lindberg and Matchbox kits ! Happy modeling all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, Don said: <...> Meh, what do I know...I still enjoy building Lindberg and Matchbox kits ! Happy modeling all! I have more fun building them, Monogram and Airfix kits! -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 29 minutes ago, GreyGhost said: I have more fun building them, Monogram and Airfix kits! -Gregg Awesome! Glad I'm not alone. Happy modeling! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gb_madcat_sl Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 From Wikipedia: “In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community(such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flybywire Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 19 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said: Of course they will. Any press is good Press 😄 go AMK!!! Please release a Mig 1.44 or Su-47 in 1/48. PLEASE!!!@!@@!!!! I will buy 10 of them. each. I think it'll be a better idea if we just ask other manufacturers like GWH etc. to create those kits for us. AMK has definitely lost its appeal as well as integrity after this F-14 fiasco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, gb_madcat_sl said: From Wikipedia: “In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community(such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.” Maybe you should look up "neffing".... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tapchan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, flybywire said: I think it'll be a better idea if we just ask other manufacturers like GWH etc. to create those kits for us. AMK has definitely lost its appeal as well as integrity after this F-14 fiasco. Actually it's a good idea for AMK to stick to less famous and recognizable shapes. But now as I imagined it I feel that even if subject of this topic was MiG 1.44 it would be the same. Less viewers of course, less crowd but still some MiG fan would find shape innacuracies in "most accurate 1/48 MiG 1.44 ever" (which would be true due to competition of course). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 8 hours ago, shion said: No, I've just want to see a build of the kit here. It's pretty paradoxal, despite the hype about it, no build on this forum, very few builds elsewhere. What happened? I perfectly understand some people who preordered the kit but got problems on the way decided to sell theirs. But it's still paradoxal that a kit with this hype finally have this few WIP and completed builds. And your very behaviour is maybe one of the reasons nobody made a WIP here yet? With your toxic behaviour the WIP build here will be contaminated with hate and BS comment. You already went toxic about fellow modellers from outside, and new with that. You will continue your AMK bashing whatever the builder shows you, you'll always find an excuse to bring back your hate in the top of the discussion I am building one and I wanted to make a WIP build here. But I can already see how this is going to end because of you and your AMK bashers likes Since I actually enjoy building models, with or without challenges (and I don't always follow instructions, even on Tamiya kit) but I despise trolls and manufacturer bashing, I don't see the point to document a build here and have to deal with you haters. So as far as I am concerned your behaviour in this topic is a disservice to the ARC community. You make normal modellers turn someplace else for their WIP and your make ARC look like a nasty and toxic place to visit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erik_g Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, shion said: If you don't have assembling problems yet, why didn't you follow the instruction manual build sequence? Ok, I have built models since I was seven years old. That is 37 years of model building. Do you know for how many of them I have NOT followed the instructed build sequence to the letter? Maybe about 36. Hand up, any actual model builder in here who follows the sequence in the instructions to the letter. Shion, I don´t have the time now, but in 2020 I´ll build the AMK tomcat, just for you, in effing SEQUENCE if that is a REQUIREMENT. You can come over and watch me do it, if you like. Now, could you guys that has NOT ordered an AMK Tomcat, and who do not have any intention to do that ever, just go out and buy the Tamiya F-14D and actually build some models, because I can´t see where this whining will lead to. We know by now that you think the kit is crap, and that we who bought it are idiots. So get on with your lives and get a real hobby. Maybe not model building, I don´t think that is a suitable hobby for some of you. Model building, you see, can be hard work. It can require DRY FITTING and SANDING and the application of PUTTY. It also requires some thinking, because the assembly sequence is probably not the best one if you want to paint stuff or add extra details. I can understand the ire and anger from those who like me actually preordered the kit and was then being ignored and forgotten when the kit was released. I can understand the annoyance from people who received the kit, finding its various flaws. But the HATRED and VITRIOL from some of you who have spent absolutely nothing on the AMK kit? There has been a perfectly good (but not perfect) Tomcat available from Tamiya for a few years now, go and buy that and be happy, instead of perpetuating the negativity. Edited December 11, 2019 by erik_g Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Red Dog said: I am building one and I wanted to make a WIP build here. But I can already see how this is going to end because of you and your AMK bashers likes Since I actually enjoy building models, with or without challenges (and I don't always follow instructions, even on Tamiya kit) but I despise trolls and manufacturer bashing, I don't see the point to document a build here and have to deal with you haters. Thanks for making the effort of documenting a direct build off with the Tamiya kit. Hope the next chapter is not that far off, but I can imagine this process is rather time consuming to say the least. I basically already have my mind set up on the AMK due to it having more options (canopy, speed brakes, wings, front gear) and details with a cheaper price tag to boot, but I'm looking forward to see if there are any major pitfalls in building it. Edited December 11, 2019 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, erik_g said: Ok, I have built models since I was seven years old. That is 37 years of model building. Do you know for how many of them I have followed the instructed build sequence to the letter? Maybe about 36. Hand up, any actual model builder in here who follows the sequence in the instructions to the letter. We pretty much have the same experience in modelling and their 3 reasons I don't follow the instructed build sequence of a kit: - I'm playing by heart, knowing the problems I will face. - Someone having more experience with the kit, released a less problematic build sequence (see the revised HAS Harrier build sequence). - the instructed build sequence makes no sense. And I provided videos, photos and links to several builds. You can see them, read them, and witness the frustation of these builders and the comments they made during the process. Yes, one of the interesting things in model making is the journey and how we handle problems and find solutions but there's a limit, when the process isn't inspiring anymore, when it becomes frustating. Edited December 11, 2019 by shion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erik_g Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I meant "not followed" above. I have not followed the sequence in the instructions for the last 36 years.. I am not following the build sequence in the instructions because of various reasons, like adding a certain antenna at a certain stage will invariably lead to it being broken off during handling. Not building the ejection seat as step one, since I don´t know if it will be replaced by a resin seat later, or just because I don´t want to. (Seats are boring) I will often leave the landing gears off until last, after painting, decaling and weathering. Sometimes leaving parts off will make painting simpler. That´s why I am painting and decaling the forward fuselage on the Tamiya Tomcat separately (will probably not do that on the AMK Tomcat, due to suspected fit issues and the fact that I´ll use the pallets on that one.) Sometimes dry fitting (which someone boasted should not be necessary in a modern kit) reveals fit issues that can be remedied by modifying the build sequence. Also, after so many years of modelling I can just by looking at the parts guess where issues will arise and adapt, for example, the trick of attaching forward and aft fuselage parts before gluing the left/right halves together sometimes fix fit issues. The steps are more guidelines showing which part goes where, if that is not really obvious. So there is absolutely no reason to have hang up on a builder not following the suggested build sequence in the instructions. It´s the result that counts. Regarding fit issues, I´ve seen a builder tackle the Kinetic F-16 with a minimum of filler, just through careful fitting of parts. I was really impressed and try to take the same approach to my building. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, erik_g said: I meant "not followed" above. I have not followed the sequence in the instructions for the last 36 years.. I am not following the build sequence in the instructions because of various reasons, like adding a certain antenna at a certain stage will invariably lead to it being broken off during handling. Not building the ejection seat as step one, since I don´t know if it will be replaced by a resin seat later, or just because I don´t want to. (Seats are boring) I will often leave the landing gears off until last, after painting, decaling and weathering. Sometimes leaving parts off will make painting simpler. That´s why I am painting and decaling the forward fuselage on the Tamiya Tomcat separately (will probably not do that on the AMK Tomcat, due to suspected fit issues and the fact that I´ll use the pallets on that one.) Sometimes dry fitting (which someone boasted should not be necessary in a modern kit) reveals fit issues that can be remedied by modifying the build sequence. Also, after so many years of modelling I can just by looking at the parts guess where issues will arise and adapt, for example, the trick of attaching forward and aft fuselage parts before gluing the left/right halves together sometimes fix fit issues. The steps are more guidelines showing which part goes where, if that is not really obvious. So there is absolutely no reason to have hang up on a builder not following the suggested build sequence in the instructions. It´s the result that counts. Regarding fit issues, I´ve seen a builder tackle the Kinetic F-16 with a minimum of filler, just through careful fitting of parts. I was really impressed and try to take the same approach to my building. Like I said, we pretty much have the same exp. I postpone (if it's possible) all the antennas and LG assemblies to the final assembly phase, after the painting/decaling/weathering. One different thing: the ejection seats. I build them first because: - for me, they serve as benchmark of the quality of the plastic and how it will react with differents cements I will use. - I repeatedly come back to work on the seats when others parts are drying, carving/adding details etc. And about this kit, seeing the differents builds, I think there are 2 main causes for issues in the build: warpage and hyperstatism. There are injection process issues with this kit, and one result is warpage. Some long parts are warped and their assembly with other parts is difficult. See the intakes and how they fit with the bottom fuselage. The other problem - hyperstatism - may be more problematic. There isn't enough degree of freedom in the assembly of the main sections of the kit. The very first thing I do with by example Hasegawa kits, is erasing locating pins, bc it's often better to make this by yourself. Here, it's not possible, kit have a lot of constrained locating parts/zones. If your injection process is Tamiya-like, it's good, if not the builder will struggle and ultimately have to erase/grind/reshape all. Edited December 11, 2019 by shion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
polybebber Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Red Dog said: And your very behaviour is maybe one of the reasons nobody made a WIP here yet? With your toxic behaviour the WIP build here will be contaminated with hate and BS comment. You already went toxic about fellow modellers from outside, and new with that. You will continue your AMK bashing whatever the builder shows you, you'll always find an excuse to bring back your hate in the top of the discussion I am building one and I wanted to make a WIP build here. But I can already see how this is going to end because of you and your AMK bashers likes Since I actually enjoy building models, with or without challenges (and I don't always follow instructions, even on Tamiya kit) but I despise trolls and manufacturer bashing, I don't see the point to document a build here and have to deal with you haters. So as far as I am concerned your behaviour in this topic is a disservice to the ARC community. You make normal modellers turn someplace else for their WIP and your make ARC look like a nasty and toxic place to visit. You politely hit the nail on the head, there are a few idiotic stuffed shirts here who will do their best to keep this thread running forever - sooner or later even the folding sequence of the AMK boxes will be discussed and found unsuitable for the model builder. Lothar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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