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13 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

So what you're saying is that if one DOESN'T sell their AMK Tomcat, they aren't making a smart move or a good decision? And you wonder why the "Just Build It" crowd hurls insults at the "Rivet Counters". 

Darren, that's precisely the quid of the matter; the "Just Build It" won't mix with the "Rivet Counters", hence the unnecessary insult hurling. I'm not into insulting anyone.

I infer that the "Just Build It" crowd oughtn't even care to come to this thread to see what it's posted regarding the AMK kit at all. They should be okay building the kit with all of their issues, just as it is. Why bother coming in here to see what it's being posted?

It's the "Rivet Counters" who have been waiting the releasement of this kit with the most expectancies for I don't know how long, because they cared about building the "Best F-14 Kit ever In the Galaxy's History", as advertised by AMK, hence, they wouldn't get enough with getting any other kit but that, as opposed to the "Just Build It" crowd. To them, if the kit finally happened, then awesome. If not, there were all of the other kits out there - I myself have read them posting that when there was the possibility that the kit didn't happen.

"Rivet Counters" were all frustrated by the fact that the AMK was a fiasco, after all; the Tamiya kit - which happened much before, was a lifetime better. I guess it's tough to get over the fact that, after all the waiting, the involvement and the promises made, the kit is not only wrong, but also it has quite a severe issue which is impossible to fix so far.

I've got the faintest interest in buring AMK; I don't care about that - I don't even think it's in my power to do so. I'm simply stating what it's plain for all to see, a hard fact. If this bothers anyone, I'm sorry. If I'm a manufacturer basher for this, then I think it's because these people won't take the truth about the AMK kit being a fiasco all too well. 

When those who involved in the pre-ordering of the AMK pointed out the issue with the fat hinds very early in this thread, and were told that the issue was just an optical illusion, they should have pressed AMK harder to fix that issue instead of being so condescending. Well, AMK did all kind of stupid moves - like disappearing from this forum and the silly thing stunt they pulled off on Facebook, I've read people saying that AMK had gone silent in order to redo the whole moulds which comprised the rear end and stuff; that they would deliver an accurate kit, as they promised. Then we had all of the "old picture/old show/old iteration/old mould #11" excuses which showed exactly the very same issues present (fat hinds, IFR probe panel, TARPS pod, etc).

Then you had what you get. I'm glad I didn't put up with that kind of utter disrespect as a modeller by AMK - or any other manufacturer. You've got to face it whether you liked or not. This will teach a very good lesson to both them and you.

  

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5 hours ago, shion said:

The other problem - hyperstatism - may be more problematic. There isn't enough degree of freedom in the assembly of the main sections of the kit. 

 

I don't think the term hyperstatism applies to the topic of kit instructions in the way you are using it.

 

However, it applies PERFECTLY to what this thread has become - a type of MAGA mindset.  In this case Make AMK Great Again.

 

Quote

Hyper-statism

 

A political tactic in which a person or group of people will state an idea or belief. After which, they will identify the people who are opposed to the idea or belief. Once this is done, they will begin to over-whelm the opposition with petty insults, pre-conceived [talking points], and exaggerated (and even false) facts. 

 

Edited by habu2
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1 minute ago, habu2 said:

 

I don't think the term hyperstatism applies to the topic of kit instructions.

 

How ever it applies PERFECTLY to what this thread has become - a type of MAGA mindset.  In this case Make AMK Great Again.

 

 

:rolleyes: Oh geesh. That's exactly what this thread needs, some veiled political snipe. Brilliant.

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On 12/11/2019 at 7:55 AM, Hubbie Marsten said:

 

A manufacturer is deemed great only by the quality of kits they turn out - not by modellers posting on a modelling forum. So, why is it that AMK are willing to give (1/48 F-14D) kits away to those reaching the 200/300-page-mark post on this thread? They certainly should be snooping on this thread. How come that they still won't participate in this discussion with regard to the issues in the kit? That's odd - if not suspicious. Sio? Martin? Anything to say with regard to this?

I was sacked from your Facebook, I shall say, "Fan Club" for having asked you the same.    

 

Oh hi,

 

Are you calling me? Yes! I am here. I read most of the comments here.

 

Why we give away kits to those reach 200-300 page? It is just simply celebrating a milestone is reached, just like we are doing this all the time in our Facebook pages.

 

Why we don't participate here? Do you think we should participate with those attacking us? I ever mentioned, most of the bad comments about AMK F-14 are from our competitors. I can say not from big T.

 

Yes! I authorized them to ban those causing troubles in our Facebook pages. We are a small company. We don't that much man power to deal with each single modeler and follow their requirements or expectations.

 

So, I take this chance to talk something about the inaccuracy. I read almost all the comments about our inaccuracy. When we design, we check thousands of the pictures. We design with pictures. And be honest, for those curved surfaces, it is very difficult to judge which shape is right. If you want to compare, compare to those real pictures, but not other manufacturer's kit. Also, don't compare to only one single picture, but try to find out more pictures to compare the shape. Maybe, or may not, if I have some time, I will show you my comparison of the shapes.

 

Cheers!

 

Sio

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3 hours ago, Hubbie Marsten said:

(snip) "Rivet Counters" were all frustrated by the fact that the AMK was a fiasco (snip)

  

So, in 14 words you presume to speak for the feelings of all rivet counters and offer as a fact your opinion of the kit using a highly pejorative and provocative (IMHO) term.

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On 9/28/2019 at 2:36 AM, Sio said:

Oh........... Guys,

 

It is only 247 pages! Let's make it 300 pages, and we will send 2 tomcats as a gift to the first reach 300 pages.

 

The kit is leaving the door to distributors. So, let me announce here ONLY for ARC:

 

The release date is October 31st, 2019!

 

Let's make this happen!

 

Just help a bit more!

 

Come on! Guys

 

Keep it rolling!

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I think this whole thread has pretty much run its course now. The last dozen or so pages have been nothing but people complaining about people complaining about them complaining and now and again you get somebody pipe up about getting the threads page count up ever higher for no particular purpose.

 

I dont think anybody has added anything genuinely new about the kit for a long time now.

 

You, we in fact, all have to right to talk about what we want to talk about and complain about what we want to complain about but is that what this part of this forum is about? And if he doesnt add anything to the substance of ARC then is it really worth it? It just drags the ARC down, which is never a good thing.

Edited by ElectroSoldier
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15 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

I think this whole thread has pretty much run its course now. The last dozen or so pages have been nothing but people complaining about people complaining about them complaining and now and again you get somebody pipe up about getting the threads page count up ever higher for no particular purpose.

 

I dont think anybody has added anything genuinely new about the kit for a long time now.

 

You, we in fact, all have to right to talk about what we want to talk about and complain about what we want to complain about but is that what this part of this forum is about? And if he doesnt add anything to the substance of ARC then is it really worth it? It just drags the ARC down, which is never a good thing.

 

You are, of course, correct. But this thread hasn't been on relevant topic for a very long time. It's now become kind of a joke to get it to 300 pages. It's kind of like a car wreck. You know you aren't supposed to slow down and look, but you do anyway...and then you're sorry you did.

Edited by Darren Roberts
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5 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

You are, of course, correct. But this thread hasn't been on relevant topic for a very long time. It's now become kind of a joke to get it to 300 pages. It's kind of like a car wreck. You know you aren't supposed to slow down and look, but you do anyway...and then you're sorry you did.

Word. 

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2 hours ago, Sio said:

Yes! I authorized them to ban those causing troubles in our Facebook pages. We are a small company. We don't that much man power to deal with each single modeler and follow their requirements or expectations.

 

 

Oh, hi

I've never caused any trouble at all either to you or Martin on your Facebook page. Why does asking genuine questions mean causing trouble to you I can only but surmise. I don't even do Facebook, for starters, and bothered to use my wife's account because that seemed the only option to have a chat with you when you stopped answering on ARC.

 

2 hours ago, Sio said:

So, I take this chance to talk something about the inaccuracy. I read almost all the comments about our inaccuracy. When we design, we check thousands of the pictures. We design with pictures. And be honest, for those curved surfaces, it is very difficult to judge which shape is right. If you want to compare, compare to those real pictures, but not other manufacturer's kit. Also, don't compare to only one single picture, but try to find out more pictures to compare the shape. Maybe, or may not, if I have some time, I will show you my comparison of the shapes.

 

You know, that would help a lot, judging that there already is a modeller on here who's awfully experienced on modelling design, who's trying to figure out the inaccuracy on the rear end. This could as well have been your honest answer to me when I asked you over on Facebook, instead of have me banned - or will you ask the mods to have me banned from this forum as well because of having done so? Really hope that you do make some time to post which pictures you based the design of the rear end on.

 

2 hours ago, seawinder said:

So, in 14 words you presume to speak for the feelings of all rivet counters and offer as a fact your opinion of the kit using a highly pejorative and provocative (IMHO) term.

 

Not speaking in the name of no-one but me. 

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2 hours ago, Sio said:

And be honest, for those curved surfaces, it is very difficult to judge which shape is right. If you want to compare, compare to those real pictures, but not other manufacturer's kit.

Why not? 

 

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1 hour ago, Sio said:

So, I take this chance to talk something about the inaccuracy. I read almost all the comments about our inaccuracy. When we design, we check thousands of the pictures. We design with pictures. And be honest, for those curved surfaces, it is very difficult to judge which shape is right. If you want to compare, compare to those real pictures, but not other manufacturer's kit. Also, don't compare to only one single picture, but try to find out more pictures to compare the shape. Maybe, or may not, if I have some time, I will show you my comparison of the shapes.

 

Hi Sio,

I am very surprised that you would design this kit using just pictures/photos of the real aircraft. Photos can be very misleading if not used correctly. As far as comparing your kit to "other manufacturer's kit", we also compared your kit to "photos of the real thing" and that's how we discovered the inaccuracies. Zactoman has been using your drawings provided with the kit for decal placement as they seem to conform to the 3D CAD posted earlier. He is using drawings of the Tamiya kit based on Tamiya's CAD which was based on the actual plans of the aircraft as provided by Grumman. If the drawings of your kit being used by Zactoman are not correct, then please provide us with correct ones and hopefully Zactoman will be able to find time to reassess.

I must say, though, that I have your kit and the drawings Zactoman is using appear to match the kit very well. And the drawings of the Tamiya kit match that kit as well. So, the problems we are seeing with the AMK kit are based on comparisons with photos of the real airframe and drawings provided with the kit that appear to match your 3D CAD. I would also point out that Zactoman has a  large number of F-14 photos himself as he has designed aftermarket parts for the (also inaccurate) 1/32 Trumpeter kit. In my own personal assessments I have never used just one photo, but instead sought to find as many photos as I could to verify what I was seeing. I also use the Tamiya kit that I have. The problems we have found are not figments of our imagination. I would hope that you can find the time to show your own "comparisons of shapes" as you note above.

As far as the rest of this crazy thread, all I can say is that we have a lot of different people here, all with differing personalities and temperaments. The moderator has shown an extraordinary amount of tolerance here. I hope that you take what is being said here with that in mind. Some of us are truly interested in the critical analysis of the kit's accuracy, especially in light of your continued defense of the kit's accuracy. If you can show us where we are in error in our analysis, then please do.

Cheers!

Mark

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yes 20 more pages to go, but what if we reached 300 and Sio decide not to give a free Tomcat (not that he promise there will be one), so the bashing will go on? 

btw I finally received my two Tomcats and weapon set from Indiegogo yesterday but no signature on it..... ☹️.

Anyway thanks Sio and AMK for a nice kit.

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39 minutes ago, Mstor said:

 

Hi Sio,

I am very surprised that you would design this kit using just pictures/photos of the real aircraft. Photos can be very misleading if not used correctly. As far as comparing your kit to "other manufacturer's kit", we also compared your kit to "photos of the real thing" and that's how we discovered the inaccuracies. Zactoman has been using your drawings provided with the kit for decal placement as they seem to conform to the 3D CAD posted earlier. He is using drawings of the Tamiya kit based on Tamiya's CAD which was based on the actual plans of the aircraft as provided by Grumman. If the drawings of your kit being used by Zactoman are not correct, then please provide us with correct ones and hopefully Zactoman will be able to find time to reassess.

I must say, though, that I have your kit and the drawings Zactoman is using appear to match the kit very well. And the drawings of the Tamiya kit match that kit as well. So, the problems we are seeing with the AMK kit are based on comparisons with photos of the real airframe and drawings provided with the kit that appear to match your 3D CAD. I would also point out that Zactoman has a  large number of F-14 photos himself as he has designed aftermarket parts for the (also inaccurate) 1/32 Trumpeter kit. In my own personal assessments I have never used just one photo, but instead sought to find as many photos as I could to verify what I was seeing. I also use the Tamiya kit that I have. The problems we have found are not figments of our imagination. I would hope that you can find the time to show your own "comparisons of shapes" as you note above.

As far as the rest of this crazy thread, all I can say is that we have a lot of different people here, all with differing personalities and temperaments. The moderator has shown an extraordinary amount of tolerance here. I hope that you take what is being said here with that in mind. Some of us are truly interested in the critical analysis of the kit's accuracy, especially in light of your continued defense of the kit's accuracy. If you can show us where we are in error in our analysis, then please do.

Cheers!

Mark

 

Hi, Mark,

 

Thank you for your support!

 

I never said, our kits are without mistakes. We could be making mistakes as everyone does. Sure, we are not designing only with pictures, but also drawings. Drawings, I know big T has license from Grumman, but any one can confirm they had drawings from Grumman? and even the drawings from Grumman are exactly the same the real F-14? I had been saying a thousand times in public, big T is a company I respect very much and I had been learning a lot from them. I don't want to compare with them. We were just trying to show some ideas in our design.

 

Zactoman, I don't know him! I just know the one developing OV-10 and the one sold our design to some other manufacturer without our authorization. Also, LAU-3 and LAU-68 rocket pods in our ordnance set.

 

Cheers!

 

Sio

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33 minutes ago, flanker27 said:

yes 20 more pages to go, but what if we reached 300 and Sio decide not to give a free Tomcat (not that he promise there will be one), so the bashing will go on? 

btw I finally received my two Tomcats and weapon set from Indiegogo yesterday but no signature on it..... ☹️.

Anyway thanks Sio and AMK for a nice kit.

 

Thank your for your support! Sir

 

Sorry for not signing on the kit! There could be some misunderstanding.

 

So, try to the one reaching 300 page. Then, I can sign for you.

 

There will be 2 not 1. I will send them out for sure, even it could be late.

 

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6 minutes ago, Sio said:

 

...

 

Zactoman, I don't know him! I just know the one developing OV-10 and the one sold our design to some other manufacturer without our authorization. Also, LAU-3 and LAU-68 rocket pods in our ordnance set.

 

Cheers!

 

Sio

 

 

Seriously, 

 

some people complains how this topic and its content hurt image of AMK as a brand,

but when I read this kind of accusation, by a company representant...

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1 hour ago, Hubbie Marsten said:

 

 

Oh, hi

I've never caused any trouble at all either to you or Martin on your Facebook page. Why does asking genuine questions mean causing trouble to you I can only but surmise. I don't even do Facebook, for starters, and bothered to use my wife's account because that seemed the only option to have a chat with you when you stopped answering on ARC.

 

 

You know, that would help a lot, judging that there already is a modeller on here who's awfully experienced on modelling design, who's trying to figure out the inaccuracy on the rear end. This could as well have been your honest answer to me when I asked you over on Facebook, instead of have me banned - or will you ask the mods to have me banned from this forum as well because of having done so? Really hope that you do make some time to post which pictures you based the design of the rear end on.

 

 

Not speaking in the name of no-one but me. 

 

Sorry! I don't know who you are in Facebook. There were some did cause some troubles for sure.

 

I didn't see any one professional in design showing our mistakes. Most of them, are showing with extreme pictures only. If someone I, please introduce to me.

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5 minutes ago, Sio said:

I didn't see any one professional in design showing our mistakes. Most of them, are showing with extreme pictures only. If someone I, please introduce to me.

 

25 minutes ago, Sio said:

Zactoman, I don't know him! I just know the one developing OV-10 and the one sold our design to some other manufacturer without our authorization. Also, LAU-3 and LAU-68 rocket pods in our ordnance set.

 

Just wow.

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On 12/10/2019 at 8:16 PM, Dave Roof said:

 

Why would I need to be "more cautious"? I also never said the kit didn't have issues. I said that many people simply don't care. Me personally, I don't care. I have one, I'll build it and I more than likely won't "fix" anything (unless it's a fitting issue).

Now, the Kittyhawk UH-1N? The fact it has the wrong main rotor bothers me. I have a few and will fix each one. 

Sorry I meant more cautiously optimistic about the sale, LM is no more the only dealer that dropped AMK, I live in Germany, from what I've seen the major dealers here dropped the  brand totally too, so for example I can not buy their Mig-31 kit from the dealer I brought the kit before, or ANY AMK product for that matter. So if one dealer would have the F-14 kit, he would sell it very quickly because he would basically have the market all for himself. This is just my observation, I do not totally understand why this is happening, the situation could be similar elsewhere, it's probably AMK business tactics or whatever, but I would thought that it would rather hurt their sales

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6 minutes ago, dylan said:

well if I was to get a kit for being the first to post on page 300, I would definitely do a wip thread here. 

 

Me too! I'd grab an AMK F-14 right now if it were in my budget and do an unbiased review... unbiased... because I know jack about the Tomcat. So I'd review it from the standpoint of ease of build, clarity of instructions, decals etc. Things model related rather than F-14 specific. But alas I have terrible luck winning things. I will be either post 299 or 301...:crying:

 

 

Model on fellas!

:smiley-transport006:

 

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1 hour ago, Sio said:

Zactoman, I don't know him! I just know the one developing OV-10 and the one sold our design to some other manufacturer without our authorization. Also, LAU-3 and LAU-68 rocket pods in our ordnance set.

 

 

You don't know who Zactoman is? :hmmm:Thought I'd just read you say that you did read almost all the comments about your inaccuracy on the previous page. Too curious that you hadn't seen him post the most interesting and proven input on this thread so far with regard to your inaccuracy. 

 

1 hour ago, Sio said:

Sorry! I don't know who you are in Facebook.

 

Never mind, Sio. It doesn't matter any more. Not at all, believe me.

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