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2 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

If not, what do you disagree with and why?

 

Darren,

Let's no beat about the bushes; every modeller that I know wants to build the most accurate kit there is of any given subject. You've read those threads yourself regarding what the best kit is here on this forum a thousand + 1 times. Even the aftermarket industry came in the rescue when there's a kit which is to be helped in order to correct their issues. So we all do hanker for accuracy.

Here we've got a company which stated that they would deliver the best kit ever of a really popular subject, and conditioned its development to the 5000-mark pre-order. For a while, they shared what progress they achieved, taking advice from modellers reading this thread.

It was until they showed that infamous picture of the kit showing the issue on the rear end that they started deceiving the modellers' trust and confidence. Meanwhile, the Tamiya F-14A kit had beat them to it.

Then all the lies, the cover-ups, the deceiving and the sudden wall of silence ensued. Let's not forget their Facebook Fandom Club farce, as it was a shameless milestone in the history of plastic model industry.

For almost four years the whole modelling community has been waiting on this promise, even those like I who have not committed. Why would anybody wait that much for a kit that it was going to be the second best overall kit in the market? Please go back and read what modellers here posted before that awful picture was uploaded by the AMK camp.

It doesn't matter for how long you've been building kits, Darren. I've been building kits for only 20 years now, compared to you, and I use to be asked commission builds a lot. Those people don't ask me to get a second best overall kit of the subject they want, even when there's a price tag to pay for the most accurate kit there is of the subject they want.

Also, I really don't see what's with surmising what had happened if the AMK kit had come out 15 years ago, when it's troubling enough that it had come out today as it did, when today there's an awful lot more technology out there to resort to now.

I simply won't condone a company who promised a great kit and yet delivered nothing but a poor flop, with all of the pathetic lying and the hopeless deceit which happened in between.

I can easily deal with high price, poor fit, less detail and no extras at all if the kit is worthy, but if the shape is such a joke which is impossible to fix… - again, shape issues that were clearly pointed out to the AMK team early in the development.   

They simply didn't care to fix them because they were stubborn, adamant (or whatever they believed) that modellers would accept anything they turned out instead. Well? That was what happened in the end. I've got the nerve to say it in the open because I won't put up with any sort of disrespect, and I still see neither Sio nor Martin to even show what pictures they based on in order to devise that awful rear end as they promised to. Of course they will never admit that the kit had to be rushed out after Tamiya had beat them to it TWICE!

And all of the lame knob-polishing, you know; it really makes me wonder... :hmmm:

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Second only to Tamiya...
I beat Hasegawa, HobbyBoss, Fujimi and a slew of big monied up companies... I beat them all except Tamiya. Wow I really am a failure!

 

12 minutes ago, Hubbie Marsten said:

 

Darren,

Let's no beat about the bushes; every modeller that I know wants to build the most accurate kit there is of any given subject. You've read those threads yourself regarding what the best kit is here on this forum a thousand + 1 times. Even the aftermarket industry came in the rescue when there's a kit which is to be helped in order to correct their issues. So we all do hanker for accuracy.

Here we've got a company which stated that they would deliver the best kit ever of a really popular subject, and conditioned its development to the 5000-mark pre-order. For a while, they shared what progress they achieved, taking advice from modellers reading this thread.

It was until they showed that infamous picture of the kit showing the issue on the rear end that they started deceiving the modellers' trust and confidence. Meanwhile, the Tamiya F-14A kit had beat them to it.

Then all the lies, the cover-ups, the deceiving and the sudden wall of silence ensued. Let's not forget their Facebook Fandom Club farce, as it was a shameless milestone in the history of plastic model industry.

For almost four years the whole modelling community has been waiting on this promise, even those like I who have not committed. Why would anybody wait that much for a kit that it was going to be the second best overall kit in the market? Please go back and read what modellers here posted before that awful picture was uploaded by the AMK camp.

It doesn't matter for how long you've been building kits, Darren. I've been building kits for only 20 years now, compared to you, and I use to be asked commission builds a lot. Those people don't ask me to get a second best overall kit of the subject they want, even when there's a price tag to pay for the most accurate kit there is of the subject they want.

Also, I really don't see what's with surmising what had happened if the AMK kit had come out 15 years ago, when it's troubling enough that it had come out today as it did, when today there's an awful lot more technology out there to resort to now.

I simply won't condone a company who promised a great kit and yet delivered nothing but a poor flop, with all of the pathetic lying and the hopeless deceit which happened in between.

I can easily deal with high price, poor fit, less detail and no extras at all if the kit is worthy, but if the shape is such a joke which is impossible to fix… - again, shape issues that were clearly pointed out to the AMK team early in the development.   

They simply didn't care to fix them because they were stubborn, adamant (or whatever they believed) that modellers would accept anything they turned out instead. Well? That was what happened in the end. I've got the nerve to say it in the open because I won't put up with any sort of disrespect, and I still see neither Sio nor Martin to even show what pictures they based on in order to devise that awful rear end as they promised to. Of course they will never admit that the kit had to be rushed out after Tamiya had beat them to it TWICE!

And all of the lame knob-polishing, you know; it really makes me wonder... :hmmm:

 

Then buy the Tamiya kit and be happy.

You had expectations and they didnt live up to them and thats why youre so hurt?

And if you are not hurt then just go and buy the Tamiya kit and never another word needs to be uttered.

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8 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Second only to Tamiya...
I beat Hasegawa, HobbyBoss, Fujimi and a slew of big monied up companies... I beat them all except Tamiya. Wow I really am a failure!

 

:rolleyes: You still don't get it, do you...? Which issues found on the Hasegawa and Hobby Boss kits can actually be fixed with a little elbow grease, whereas the rear end on that AMK kit will be able to be fixed not even with a stick of dynamite!

 

12 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Then buy the Tamiya kit and be happy.

You had expectations and they didnt live up to them and thats why youre so hurt?

And if you are not hurt then just go and buy the Tamiya kit and never another word needs to be uttered.

 

It's only that I'm afraid that you could be sold red-painted rocks for apples in future if you keep on taking all the shameless lying and the utter disrespect. Stand your ground and reject the mistreatment and being pulled round by your nose.

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2 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Am I the only one who is getting a sense of complete over reaction here and its now got to the point where its become a farce...

Agree...

1 hour ago, flanker27 said:

It would be nice if this thread gets locked at 299 page.

No...

 

33 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Second only to Tamiya...
I beat Hasegawa, HobbyBoss, Fujimi and a slew of big monied up companies... I beat them all except Tamiya. Wow I really am a failure!

For someone willing to re-scribe and add a little detail, Monogram belongs near the top of that list.

 

(Note that as I post this Photobucket is offline so pictures in the links I'm providing don't show. Try back later)(Yes, I'm still using Photobucket. Not by choice :bandhead2:)

 

Previously you asked what was wrong with the kit. Darren mentioned two of the big issues, the odd shape of the  rear/hips and the refueling probe being at the wrong angle.
There is much more wrong with the kit, some big and some small issues.

 

The biggest issue he didn't mention (IMHO) is that the AMK is thicker/bigger overall (see these 2 posts for pics).

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2980597

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2981680
This is most obvious on the nose section because it is more exposed than the rear fuselage center section. Those not familiar with the Tomcat might not notice but it becomes much more obvious if the AMK kit is sitting next to another brand kit.
I mentioned that the AMK canopy is wider, but the sides are also curved and not almost parallel like they should be. This will be most obvious on builds with the canopy open on all grey builds with the black cockpit sill next to the gray fuselage sides, more so when sitting next to another brand kit.

 

As for the hips it is much more than just the slope of the area next to the v-stab. Time permitting I still plan to properly illustrate (possibly in plastic and putty) what is wrong and how to fix it. Until then here are some red/blue lines that give a hint: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2983301

The fix will have to be a band-aid because accurately fixing it would be almost impossible without replacing the whole rear of the kit.

 

He mentioned surface detail being asymmetrical. Here are a few examples:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2979427

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2980153

 

Other issues that have been mentioned include the Sidewinders being in the wrong locations (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2984376), the extended slats being mounted wrong, something that the modeler can fix (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2980152), the wing gloves/shoulders being thick (it's more the radius which can be sanded to a better shape), etc. (missing bump on the main gear door, missing strut lock hole/mechanism on the side of the intakes, missing access panels on the upper/inner wing, and more that others can add).

 

I've only pieced some of the kit together, but there seem to be a lot of annoying fit issues (I showed the cockpit/gear well fit here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2983929. I hope to show more and fixes for them in time.

 

HTH

 

:cheers:

Edited by Zactoman
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1 hour ago, Hubbie Marsten said:

Here we've got a company which stated that they would deliver the best kit ever of a really popular subject, and conditioned its development to the 5000-mark pre-order. For a while, they shared what progress they achieved, taking advice from modellers reading this thread.

It was until they showed that infamous picture of the kit showing the issue on the rear end that they started deceiving the modellers' trust and confidence. Meanwhile, the Tamiya F-14A kit had beat them to it.

Then all the lies, the cover-ups, the deceiving and the sudden wall of silence ensued. Let's not forget their Facebook Fandom Club farce, as it was a shameless milestone in the history of plastic model industry.

For almost four years the whole modelling community has been waiting on this promise, even those like I who have not committed. Why would anybody wait that much for a kit that it was going to be the second best overall kit in the market? Please go back and read what modellers here posted before that awful picture was uploaded by the AMK camp.

It doesn't matter for how long you've been building kits, Darren. I've been building kits for only 20 years now, compared to you, and I use to be asked commission builds a lot. Those people don't ask me to get a second best overall kit of the subject they want, even when there's a price tag to pay for the most accurate kit there is of the subject they want.

Also, I really don't see what's with surmising what had happened if the AMK kit had come out 15 years ago, when it's troubling enough that it had come out today as it did, when today there's an awful lot more technology out there to resort to now.

I simply won't condone a company who promised a great kit and yet delivered nothing but a poor flop, with all of the pathetic lying and the hopeless deceit which happened in between.

I can easily deal with high price, poor fit, less detail and no extras at all if the kit is worthy, but if the shape is such a joke which is impossible to fix… - again, shape issues that were clearly pointed out to the AMK team early in the development.   

They simply didn't care to fix them because they were stubborn, adamant (or whatever they believed) that modellers would accept anything they turned out instead. Well? That was what happened in the end. I've got the nerve to say it in the open because I won't put up with any sort of disrespect, and I still see neither Sio nor Martin to even show what pictures they based on in order to devise that awful rear end as they promised to. Of course they will never admit that the kit had to be rushed out after Tamiya had beat them to it TWICE!

And all of the lame knob-polishing, you know; it really makes me wonder... :hmmm:

 

Well, I tried my hardest to have a reasonable discussion about the kit itself. It seems you simply can't bring yourself to look at just the model and not the company. I wish you well on your crusade to get the world to hate AMK. I'm headed back downstairs to the bench to start painting said kit, which is turning out rather nicely.

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3 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Geez. I stay outta this topic for like 15 pages and this is where it's at. Exit stage left.....

 

Yeah, it's not about the kit any more. It's about how every modeler should be offended because some company didn't deliver on what they promised. Oh the horror! It must be a Millennial thing to be offended by something like that.

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I would just like to make one point, the modeler's who are saying the shape issue is not big deal are the same one's who will stress over making sure they have the exact FS color for the seats/cockpit/markings/etc or make sure they have the correct configuration/weapon load out.

 

Point is, they aren't worried about if the shape of the aircraft is accurate but will stress over the accuracy of markings/weapons/etc, kind of ironic isn't it.

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14 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

I would just like to make one point, the modeler's who are saying the shape issue is not big deal are the same one's who will stress over making sure they have the exact FS color for the seats/cockpit/markings/etc or make sure they have the correct configuration/weapon load out.

 

Point is, they aren't worried about if the shape of the aircraft is accurate but will stress over the accuracy of markings/weapons/etc, kind of ironic isn't it.

word

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25 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

It sounds to me like its the AMK is to the F-14 as HobbyBoss is to the F-111.

Many good features but with a some flaws, somy of which kill it...

I guess I should feel aggrieved. . . 

 

Perhaps you should, only difference is that Hobby Boss haven't lured modellers into fundraising by assuring them to deliver the best 1/48 Vark kit there is in the universe in return. All of the issues in the Hobby Boss 1/48 FB-111A kit (off the top of my head: flaps, windshield, exhaust cans and bomb bay doors), were much more easily fixed than what those rear hinds on the AMK F-14 kit would be. 

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34 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

I would just like to make one point, the modeler's who are saying the shape issue is not big deal are the same one's who will stress over making sure they have the exact FS color for the seats/cockpit/markings/etc or make sure they have the correct configuration/weapon load out.

 

Point is, they aren't worried about if the shape of the aircraft is accurate but will stress over the accuracy of markings/weapons/etc, kind of ironic isn't it.

I wouldn't say ironic. I'd just say it's what they want out of this hobby. We all have different things that we're obsessed about. The problem comes when others try to dictate what we should/should not deem as important. Unfortunately, there are many on both sides of the discussion that are so vocal they drown out the vast majority who would simply like to enjoy the hobby the way they see fit. It's entertaining and exhausting all at the same time! 😊

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4 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

Why are you laughing? It really is the second best overall 1/48 Tomcat model on the market. The detail is superb. The landing gear bays are the best of any 1/48 Tomcat kit on the market. The dirty wings also. Fit is moderately good, and much better than the Hasegawa kit. Overall shape issues is where it falls flat. But that's only one aspect of why people build models. So while shape accuracy may be the most important thing to you, it doesn't make the AMK Tomcat a "bad" model. It just means it's bad for you. Just for the record, I've been building models longer than you've been alive, and this kit is very good, even with the issues it has. If this kit had come out 15 years ago, it would have made people's heads explode at how nice it was. I think what you (and many others) are having trouble with is separating the merits/issues of the model with the company itself. You are projecting your ill-will against the company (which is perfectly valid and probably warranted) on to the model, which clouds your ability of being objective about it. Do you agree with the following?

 

Price point - positive

Fit - neutral

Detail - positive

Shape - negative

Extras - positive

 

If so, then you have to agree that overall it's a good model. If not, what do you disagree with and why?

 

Well said Darren. Though as far as the kit's Fit, I would say the verdict is still out. I would like to see a few more builds to verify the issues there. What I've seen so far pulls it more toward the negative, but perhaps that is because I value fit quite highly, especially with very complex kits, which the AMK F-14 is. Last thing I need these days is to be struggling with getting major assemblies to fit properly.  I don't have time to mess with such things. Now, if the panel lines were just a bit finer, I would consider using the dirty wings on a Tamiya kit, but the difference in the quality of detail is just too stark. It would look pretty weird.

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1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said:

It sounds to me like its the AMK is to the F-14 as HobbyBoss is to the F-111.

Many good features but with a some flaws, somy of which kill it...

 

You have summed it up nicely. The HobbyBoss F-111 kits are well detailed kits. Problem is it is terribly inaccurate. I have one (FB-111) and will probably build it someday. Why? Because there is NO other kit that is better right now. Now if someone were to release a well detailed and accurate FB-111, the HobbyBoss one would be out of here.

With the AMK F-14D its different. There are, fortunately, more accurate kits. Not quite as detailed, but nice none the less. So, everyone has a choice. They just need to make up their minds what they want out of the kit.

It is indeed unfortunate that such acrimony has been flying back and forth in this thread. I don't understand it myself. As I have stated repeatedly, I am interested in determining the issues with this kit. Fortunately, Zactoman has continued to pick apart this kit and define what is wrong and, in essence, what I have been seeing but lacked the skills to properly express. I would ask people to step back and let tempers cool. Throwing insults back and forth does not reflect well on this forum (if you care about such things). I think it safe to say that the kit, and the company that created it, have their supporters and detractors. There does not seem to be any common ground between the two. Perhaps we can all agree to disagree and get back to either the analysis of this kit, or the, most importantly :whistle:, the race to page 300. :naughty:

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54 minutes ago, Mstor said:

 

Well said Darren. Though as far as the kit's Fit, I would say the verdict is still out. I would like to see a few more builds to verify the issues there. What I've seen so far pulls it more toward the negative, but perhaps that is because I value fit quite highly, especially with very complex kits, which the AMK F-14 is. Last thing I need these days is to be struggling with getting major assemblies to fit properly.  I don't have time to mess with such things. Now, if the panel lines were just a bit finer, I would consider using the dirty wings on a Tamiya kit, but the difference in the quality of detail is just too stark. It would look pretty weird.

It's not horrible fit. I've only used a spot of putty on a couple of places. Some sanding took care of a couple other places. It doesn't touch Tamiya level fit, but it's much better than Hasegawa. That's why I rated fit as neutral. Of course, I build Monogram Tomcats. Anything fits better than that! 🤣

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14 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

Of course, I build Monogram Tomcats. Anything fits better than that!

 

Yea, that's why have have to take your idea of good fit with a grain of salt :thumbsup:

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4 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

It's not horrible fit. I've only used a spot of putty on a couple of places. Some sanding took care of a couple other places. It doesn't touch Tamiya level fit, but it's much better than Hasegawa. That's why I rated fit as neutral. Of course, I build Monogram Tomcats. Anything fits better than that! 🤣

 

Let's make a gradation.

 

An excellent fit, is a fit so good that you can paint the parts first then assemble them without any problem, where you just need to cut and delete the gate, to glue with extra thin cement,  where it's impossible to see the joint after assembly. Example: Tamiya Tomcat.

 

A very good fit, is a fit where you just need to cut and delete the gate, then do some dryfitting to obtain a joint which it's impossible to see after assembly.

Example: Some modern Hasegawa kits.

 

A good fit, is a fit where you've got to sand a little bit and use some strengh and strategic use of extra thin cement, moderate use of dryfitting, maybe some dissolve putty, to obtain a joint impossible to see after assembly.

Example: most modern kits.

 

A neutral fit, is a fit where you need to sand, to use strengh, to use normal (thick cement), dryffitings, and afterwards classic putty to obtain a perfect joint.

Example: some areas of most modern kits.

 

A bad fit, is a fit where you need to extensively sand,  use clamp, erase details, use exposy putty, add renforts, to simply join 2 parts/assemblies. You'll never obtain a perfect joint because you have to choose somewhere or something to hide a particular part of the assembly. Problem is other modellers, with a little experience can easily tell where the joint is and know how hard the assembly was.  It's one of the main reasons many builds stall. In the end you can succeed, but the more fits like this in a kit, the less we see builds of it.

 

 

 

AMK supertomcat kit fit is not horrible, but isn't not good or just "neutral". When you can't achieve a perfect joint, despite extensive use of sanding and putty, when you have to choose somewhere to hide the bad joint, the fit simply is not good or neutral, it is bad.

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3 minutes ago, shion said:

 

Let's make a gradation.

 

An excellent fit, is a fit so good that you can paint the parts first then assemble them without any problem, where you just need to cut and delete the gate, to glue with extra thin cement,  where it's impossible to see the joint after assembly. Example: Tamiya Tomcat.

 

A very good fit, is a fit where you just need to cut and delete the gate, then do some dryfitting to obtain a joint which it's impossible to see after assembly.

Example: Some modern Hasegawa kits.

 

A good fit, is a fit where you've got to sand a little bit and use some strengh and strategic use of extra thin cement, moderate use of dryfitting, maybe some dissolve putty, to obtain a joint impossible to see after assembly.

Example: most modern kits.

 

A neutral fit, is a fit where you need to sand, to use strengh, to use normal (thick cement), dryffitings, and afterwards classic putty to obtain a perfect joint.

Example: some areas of most modern kits.

 

A bad fit, is a fit where you need to extensively sand,  use clamp, erase details, use exposy putty, add renforts, to simply join 2 parts/assemblies. You'll never obtain a perfect joint because you have to choose somewhere or something to hide a particular part of the assembly. Problem is other modellers, with a little experience can easily tell where the joint is and know how hard the assembly was.  It's one of the main reasons many builds stall. In the end you can succeed, but the more fits like this in a kit, the less we see builds of it.

 

 

 

AMK supertomcat kit fit is not horrible, but isn't not good or just "neutral". When you can't achieve a perfect joint, despite extensive use of sanding and putty, when you have to choose somewhere to hide the bad joint, the fit simply is not good or neutral, it is bad.

 

Why do you insist on questioning everyone else's opinion, or implying they're wrong because their comments don't align with your train of thought? Darren rated the fit neutral as he is actually building it and that is how he feels.

 

Your opinion or definition of 'fit' is completely irrelevant. I would take Darren's word over yours any day of the week and three times on Sunday. 

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57 minutes ago, shion said:

 

Let's make a gradation.

 

An excellent fit, is a fit so good that you can paint the parts first then assemble them without any problem, where you just need to cut and delete the gate, to glue with extra thin cement,  where it's impossible to see the joint after assembly. Example: Tamiya Tomcat.

 

A very good fit, is a fit where you just need to cut and delete the gate, then do some dryfitting to obtain a joint which it's impossible to see after assembly.

Example: Some modern Hasegawa kits.

 

A good fit, is a fit where you've got to sand a little bit and use some strengh and strategic use of extra thin cement, moderate use of dryfitting, maybe some dissolve putty, to obtain a joint impossible to see after assembly.

Example: most modern kits.

 

A neutral fit, is a fit where you need to sand, to use strengh, to use normal (thick cement), dryffitings, and afterwards classic putty to obtain a perfect joint.

Example: some areas of most modern kits.

 

A bad fit, is a fit where you need to extensively sand,  use clamp, erase details, use exposy putty, add renforts, to simply join 2 parts/assemblies. You'll never obtain a perfect joint because you have to choose somewhere or something to hide a particular part of the assembly. Problem is other modellers, with a little experience can easily tell where the joint is and know how hard the assembly was.  It's one of the main reasons many builds stall. In the end you can succeed, but the more fits like this in a kit, the less we see builds of it.

 

 

 

AMK supertomcat kit fit is not horrible, but isn't not good or just "neutral". When you can't achieve a perfect joint, despite extensive use of sanding and putty, when you have to choose somewhere to hide the bad joint, the fit simply is not good or neutral, it is bad.


You’re privy to the fit issues because you have the kit in hand and are building it or is this second-hand conjecture from builds you see online?

 

Mark

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8 minutes ago, gb_madcat_sl said:


You’re privy to the fit issues because you have the kit in hand and are building it or is this second-hand conjecture from builds you see online?

 

Mark

 

Because I'm following different passed and actual builds of the kit, and it's a common and continuous complaint I saw and I still see.

And these rants aren't by one individual, but by different personns, in diverse locations, in diverse language, with diverse exp.

And some of them are pro-modellers, meaning they build kits to make a living, so they 've got a pretty full bagage/exp to know if a kit is good or not concerning  fit issues.

And more, they extensively document their struggle and analyse what and where is the reason different parts don't fit, with pictures, videos and comments, you know like Zactoman doing here.

 

So it's not conjecture, if professionals and exp modellers say and show that and why they struggle with this kit assembly, maybe the fit of the kit isn't good at all.

 

 

 

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