AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

[gb_madcat_sl]

14 minutes ago, shion said:

 

Because I'm following different passed and actual builds of the kit, and it's a common and continuous complaint I saw and I still see.

And these rants aren't by one individual, but by different personns, in diverse locations, in diverse language, with diverse exp.

And some of them are pro-modellers, meaning they build kits to make a living, so they 've got a pretty full bagage/exp to know if a kit is good or not concerning  fit issues.

And more, they extensively document their struggle and analyse what and where is the reason different parts don't fit, with pictures, videos and comments, you know like Zactoman doing here.

 

So it's not conjecture, if professionals and exp modellers say and show that and why they struggle with this kit assembly, maybe the fit of the kit isn't good at all.

 

 

 

I see. Do you have links to these builds? I have the kit in hand and would like to have some guidance when I tackle it. 
 

Mark

[DIO]

1 hour ago, shion said:

 

Let's make a gradation.

 

An excellent fit, is a fit so good that you can paint the parts first then assemble them without any problem, where you just need to cut and delete the gate, to glue with extra thin cement,  where it's impossible to see the joint after assembly. Example: Tamiya Tomcat.

 

A very good fit, is a fit where you just need to cut and delete the gate, then do some dryfitting to obtain a joint which it's impossible to see after assembly.

Example: Some modern Hasegawa kits.

 

A good fit, is a fit where you've got to sand a little bit and use some strengh and strategic use of extra thin cement, moderate use of dryfitting, maybe some dissolve putty, to obtain a joint impossible to see after assembly.

Example: most modern kits.

 

A neutral fit, is a fit where you need to sand, to use strengh, to use normal (thick cement), dryffitings, and afterwards classic putty to obtain a perfect joint.

Example: some areas of most modern kits.

 

A bad fit, is a fit where you need to extensively sand,  use clamp, erase details, use exposy putty, add renforts, to simply join 2 parts/assemblies. You'll never obtain a perfect joint because you have to choose somewhere or something to hide a particular part of the assembly. Problem is other modellers, with a little experience can easily tell where the joint is and know how hard the assembly was.  It's one of the main reasons many builds stall. In the end you can succeed, but the more fits like this in a kit, the less we see builds of it.

 

 

 

AMK supertomcat kit fit is not horrible, but isn't not good or just "neutral". When you can't achieve a perfect joint, despite extensive use of sanding and putty, when you have to choose somewhere to hide the bad joint, the fit simply is not good or neutral, it is bad.

 

Nice text, a clever way to set up everyone, but who says so? Who defines those "standards"?

I would never paint any main parts before I stuck them together. What would you do, if the glue went over the acrylic colour, removing it all the way to the plastic underneath?

 

I have not visited this post for a while, but now I am back, I see the same people, trying to convince this time, that the kit is unbuildable!

 

You either have a reason, or you started it and now you just insist trying to prove your point to anyone that does not agree (I honestly hope it is the second).

 

The kit has some negative points. Missing panel lines or inconsistent panel lines is truly annoying. But a bad fit? Seriously?

 

[shion]

26 minutes ago, gb_madcat_sl said:

I see. Do you have links to these builds? I have the kit in hand and would like to have some guidance when I tackle it. 
 

Mark

 

First, there's Zactoman here, he explained how he dealt with the fuselage front-main body joint and some others problematic areas:

 

On 12/12/2019 at 2:38 AM, Zactoman said:

After watching the videos and reading comments about how difficult it is getting the nose to properly mate I decided to have a look. The nose didn't fit great when empty, but not nearly as bad as when stuffed.
The single cockpit part seemed to slide in nicely by itself. It's when I started fitting the gear bay parts that things got bad. After lots of trial and error I got things to fit without bulging the nose section.

First thing was getting the nose gear floor to sit flat on the bottom of the cockpit tub. This required shaving down the two raised ribs as shown. Next I filed and block sanded the round bosses relatively flat  until the floor mated properly.

 

When I tried fitting the bay walls to the floor the rear piece wasn't even close to fitting. I removed a lot of material from the mating area and filed a little off the front until it sat flat on the floor.

Note that the forward bay doesn't sit flat against the floor along the outer edge. This is because the walls overlap the molded in roof detail on the floor piece. Fortunately there is no big gap to be seen when looking inside the bay because removing the overlap would be a huge undertaking.

 

Next I began test fitting each of the walls of the forward bay and trying to slide the assembly into the nose. No joy. I removed a lot of material from each wall part until the assembly fit but was very tight. I then taped together the entire assembly and fine tuned it until it slid into the nose with only a little tension.
The pic below shows the areas I removed more or less material. Note that I beveled all of the edges to reduce the interference.

 

In the end I got the gear bay to fit very nicely and the whole cockpit/gear bay assembly to slide in with minimal interference. I haven't tried adding any of the additional cockpit parts so don't know if they will add further problems, but would advise test fitting before committing, just to be sure.

I've started but not finished test fitting and making adjustments to the nose fuselage attachment area. I'll post an update if/when I can get it to fit properly. I still need to post about the hip fix but am debating whether to just use drawings and words or to actually cut and putty plastic. Time...

 

I hope he'll be able to rehost his pictures.

Search his posts here, they will help you.

 

Second, there's this build: https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=129855

Where the author points some areas of concern and how to deal with them.

 

Third, a video WIP by a japanese exp modeller, see his channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEJCoN5ZRIXKrm0i9aJT-dg/videos

He is very patient and takes time to analyse and show issue reasons.

It may be the more helping of the three because you can straight follow his steps.

 

And concerning the joint front fuselage-main body Zactoman and I are talking about, a relevant WIP of the japanese builder on this subject: 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by shion

[DIO]

9 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

 

 

Well, I tried my hardest to have a reasonable discussion about the kit itself. It seems you simply can't bring yourself to look at just the model and not the company. I wish you well on your crusade to get the world to hate AMK. I'm headed back downstairs to the bench to start painting said kit, which is turning out rather nicely.

 

Well said Darren...

[Dave Roof]

45 minutes ago, shion said:

 

Because I'm following different passed and actual builds of the kit, and it's a common and continuous complaint I saw and I still see.

And these rants aren't by one individual, but by different personns, in diverse locations, in diverse language, with diverse exp.

And some of them are pro-modellers, meaning they build kits to make a living, so they 've got a pretty full bagage/exp to know if a kit is good or not concerning  fit issues.

And more, they extensively document their struggle and analyse what and where is the reason different parts don't fit, with pictures, videos and comments, you know like Zactoman doing here.

 

So it's not conjecture, if professionals and exp modellers say and show that and why they struggle with this kit assembly, maybe the fit of the kit isn't good at all.

 

 

 

 

If all of your comments are based off the work of others, then as far as I'm concerned, your opinion of the kit is no longer relevant. You're neither an expert or a professional if you rely solely on what you read. Darren has his work in museums, squadron displays and several articles in magazines. He has first hand knowledge of the kit and you don't which is why I find your criticism of it laughable.

 

[niart17]

9 hours ago, madmanrick said:

Yeah, keep on laughing as your man continues to go on attacking everyone who even hints at disagreeing with him and and his weird mental hijinx. Exactly the behavior I would expect from a moderator. But, somehow *I* am the rude one? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Tell you what, fracking ban ME, please! Put me out of my misery so you and your man can peg each other when you are left alone in the room.

ummm....2 points to contend here. 1. I am not a moderator of any sorts, not really even in my own household. (I try in earnest there but I have all daughters) I have zero desire to be one here so there's that. 2. I'm only assuming you're talking about Hubbie? Not my man whatsoever! I did say with very few exception the thread didn't have anything worthy of banning. In my humble opinion, he's probably one of the few that's bumping that line a little too hard, and if you notice, I will comment about his or other's childishness behavior occasional when I feel it's too far. But again, not my call whatsoever. I am more of a sticks and stones kind of person. I never really cared for banning anyone unless there are actual direct threats and/or laws being broken. While I understand the practice as it is here, as it tends to TRY to keep the peace. But I don't hold the same opinion on that. Not my site, not my rules. But I certainly am not a "teacher, he stuck his tongue at me" kind of person either. 

 

My point of that response was to show you that EVERYONE is capable of posting things that could potentially come across as rude. I don't find you any more rude than anyone else or anything like that. Actually I think your probably a stand-up guy and we'd likely get along just fine at a contest or something. I just really don't care for the practice of banning. Being from the area I was raised in, I've always felt social pressures is what helps maintain the peace, not authoritative over site. That's all.

 

So anyway....about that page 300....Christmas is looking like a potential target date of hitting that. Anyone want to put down predictions?

 

Bill

 

P.S. almost forgot to comment on that last part....BWWWHAAHAHAAA...ok. carry on.

Edited December 20, 2019 by niart17

[shion]

21 minutes ago, Dave Roof said:

 

If all of your comments are based off the work of others, then as far as I'm concerned, your opinion of the kit is no longer relevant. You're neither an expert or a professional if you rely solely on what you read. Darren has his work in museums, squadron displays and several articles in magazines. He has first hand knowledge of the kit and you don't which is why I find your criticism of it laughable.

 

 

As if you absolutely need to buy and own a kit to have a pretty extensive bunch of information about it.

In fact, you're actually denying the raison d'être of this section or more this forum and modelling forums in general.

 

Nobody need to be an expert or a pro and if I remembered right, several experts -meaning people who works daily on the real a/c- and pro-modellers, were attacked too when they criticized this kit.

 

And last but this time the least, do you remember what you said to me few years ago, during the design phase of this project, when AMK show their clear parts design and I pointed out the potential issues with these design choices?  Now you've got in your hands the resulted clear parts with the predicted issues. A comment?

 

[madmanrick]

39 minutes ago, niart17 said:

 

Listen, brother....I apologize I was out of line.

 

 

All I will add is that my "complaint" all along has been that there are a few select individuals that frequent this thread and attack anyone who disagrees with their "perceptions" of this kit and their perceptions of how "out of line" AMK has been through this ordeal. These very same individuals have repeatedly stated that they don't own the kit, don't intend to buy the kit and their only "mission" at this point seems to be to help ensure that AMK doesn't survive to release another kit. I find that behavior to cross the line and to violate the TOS of this website. However, like you I am not a moderator on this site and can barely moderate myself on good days.

 

My opinion has been that the ONLY individuals AMK owed anything to, was those people who put money on the line. As far as I am aware, with a few limited exceptions notwithstanding, AMK has done all they were expected to do. They have provided a kit that people have paid for. It does not appear (and I say that since I haven't built any of mine yet and only fondled the plastic) that the kit is "the most accurate Tomcat" ever and in my opinion it seems to suffer from some very inexplicable errors and omissions. But, I repeat what kit is perfect? Even the much vaunted Tamiya Tomcats have their own peccadillos, although to be fair their issues are more along the lines of design choices, rather than errors etc. So in an effort to wrap this up, I have NO issues with 99.9% of the people who have commented on this thread. They don't require MY permission to like or hate this kit. I may not agree, but that is my right as well. I DO have an issue with people attacking others, including companies under the guise of their self-imposed superiority. End of rant.

 

P.S. Since stated you are not a moderator, are you aware you are listed on the ARC Staff Directory as a moderator?

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/staff/

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to those who may celebrate something other.

Rick

[Hubbie Marsten]

10 hours ago, madmanrick said:

Yeah, keep on laughing as your man continues to go on attacking everyone who even hints at disagreeing with him and and his weird mental hijinx. Exactly the behavior I would expect from a moderator. But, somehow *I* am the rude one? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Tell you what, fracking ban ME, please! Put me out of my misery so you and your man can peg each other when you are left alone in the room.

 

Made my point...now I removed it.

 

Wow... Rickie, you can't even stand up for what you just posted that you needed to remove it?

Oh, and added to that strange homophobic fixation, you know; that sure says a lot about you.

[niart17]

54 minutes ago, madmanrick said:

P.S. Since stated you are not a moderator, are you aware you are listed on the ARC Staff Directory as a moderator?

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/staff/

 

Oh MAN! I had no idea I had such POWER! YEEEEESSSSS....bow down all that come before me. Beg for the right to....oh sorry...gotta a little carried away.

 

hmm...not sure why that would show that way. I've never been invited or asked or told or hinted at being a mod. Unless you consider being a moderator of a group build something like a century ago. Other than that I'm going to say it's a mistake. Or IS IT? bwwwahaaa haaa haaahaaaaahaaa....oh sorry, that power trip thing again. 

[niart17]

Come to think of it, that's likely why no one has called me a complete A-hole here yet...or at least not typing it!

[IAGeezer]

 What a day I had! My 2 Tomcats arrived from Victory (Thanks Bob!),  so I'm sprue-snippin' and test fittin' away, then a pal stops by, and brings in a Norden bombsight!!!! The wife says, "Where are you gonna put that?", and I say, "In the basement with all my other stuff!". Heady stuff, for me at least....

 

 The kit test fits just great so far, with lots of "Click, click" involved. Lots of neat engineering choices they made, and the issues that have been beaten to death on this forum are nowhere near as horrible as has been alleged. The greatest challenge I see is my ability to do this kit justice.

 

 I'm looking forward to seeing some builds here in the near future !

[habu2]

1 hour ago, niart17 said:

Come to think of it, that's likely why no one has called me a complete A-hole here yet...or at least not typing it!

lol best post yet !

[niart17]

5 minutes ago, habu2 said:

lol best post yet !

thanks....uhhhh, wait what? 

[habu2]

6 hours ago, shion said:

 

Let's make a gradation.

 

Let’s make an analogy. 
 

I do a lot of photography. I have a lot of gear.  I take pretty good pics and have been published. Not bragging, just setting up the following:

 

People see my pics and ask “what kind of camera???”  I tell them it’s not the camera it’s the photographer. Some people get excellent photos with a cellphone and others can spend thousands of $$$ on high end autofocus autoexposure blah blah blah and their pics are still crapola.   (I’ve done both lol)

 

The analogy?  Give two people the exact same camera and you will get different results in the aesthetic and technical qualities of their photos. Give two people the exact same kit and you will get different results in the aesthetic and technical qualities of their build. One modeler can fit two parts perfectly while another leaves a gap. Sure there are better or worse fitting kits overall, and I’m not addressing shape/accuracy here, but one can’t make blanket statements about “gradation” and then rate an entire kit by that blanket standard. 
 

PS - Modelers have stashes and AMS. Photographers have pixel peepers and AGS - Acquired Gear Syndrome. 😂

[madcop]

8 minutes ago, habu2 said:

Let’s make an analogy. 
 

I do a lot of photography. I have a lot of gear.  I take pretty good pics and have been published. Not bragging, just setting up the following:

 

People see my pics and ask “what kind of camera???”  I tell them it’s not the camera it’s the photographer. Some people get excellent photos with a cellphone and others can spend thousands of $$$ on high end autofocus autoexposure blah blah blah and their pics are still crapola.   (I’ve done both lol)

 

The analogy?  Give two people the exact same camera and you will get different results in the aesthetic and technical qualities of their photos. Give two people the exact same kit and you will get different results in the aesthetic and technical qualities of their build. One modeler can fit two parts perfectly while another leaves a gap. Sure there are better or worse fitting kits overall, and I’m not addressing shape/accuracy here, but one can’t make blanket statements about “gradation” and then rate an entire kit by that blanket standard. 
 

PS - Modelers have stashes and AMS. Photographers have pixel peepers and AGS - Acquired Gear Syndrome. 😂

HI habu2

Bl...y well true. As simple as you said !  We take pics with our guts , and so do we build models ! NO GUTS NO PICS NO MODELS NO GLORY !

[ElectroSoldier]

4 hours ago, Dave Roof said:

 

If all of your comments are based off the work of others, then as far as I'm concerned, your opinion of the kit is no longer relevant. You're neither an expert or a professional if you rely solely on what you read. Darren has his work in museums, squadron displays and several articles in magazines. He has first hand knowledge of the kit and you don't which is why I find your criticism of it laughable.

 

 

4 hours ago, shion said:

 

As if you absolutely need to buy and own a kit to have a pretty extensive bunch of information about it.

In fact, you're actually denying the raison d'être of this section or more this forum and modelling forums in general.

 

Nobody need to be an expert or a pro and if I remembered right, several experts -meaning people who works daily on the real a/c- and pro-modellers, were attacked too when they criticized this kit.

 

And last but this time the least, do you remember what you said to me few years ago, during the design phase of this project, when AMK show their clear parts design and I pointed out the potential issues with these design choices?  Now you've got in your hands the resulted clear parts with the predicted issues. A comment?

 

 

I wouldnt walk to far along that line Dave Roof.
How many people in this thread offered up their opinions about the kit while it was in development.

They never put fingers on plastic either.

[shion]

1 hour ago, habu2 said:

Let’s make an analogy. 
 

I do a lot of photography. I have a lot of gear.  I take pretty good pics and have been published. Not bragging, just setting up the following:

 

People see my pics and ask “what kind of camera???”  I tell them it’s not the camera it’s the photographer. Some people get excellent photos with a cellphone and others can spend thousands of $$$ on high end autofocus autoexposure blah blah blah and their pics are still crapola.   (I’ve done both lol)

 

The analogy?  Give two people the exact same camera and you will get different results in the aesthetic and technical qualities of their photos. Give two people the exact same kit and you will get different results in the aesthetic and technical qualities of their build. One modeler can fit two parts perfectly while another leaves a gap. Sure there are better or worse fitting kits overall, and I’m not addressing shape/accuracy here, but one can’t make blanket statements about “gradation” and then rate an entire kit by that blanket standard. 
 

PS - Modelers have stashes and AMS. Photographers have pixel peepers and AGS - Acquired Gear Syndrome. 😂

 

The fact is the modellers I used as reference here, know their stuff.

 

Let's take a example: like I said before, one of them build and finished the Hasegawa Tomcat recently.

We all know the reputation of the Has Tomcat.

So if he can do this and if he struggles on another kit, maybe it's an indication of how the build of these another kit go?

 

Same thing with an another mentioned modeller, someone, watching him fighting with the kit, asked him if he's building a Monogram Tomcat.

Let's take a look at what he did.

1rst the surface of the kit is not good, not liking the wrong raised LO formation lights, he decided to sand them and to resurface the whole kit (with few surprises)

 

 

 

 

 

Now he's got this, after a surfacer coat:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems (in my opinion) a pretty extensive work to make the kit reaches the standard of the author other builds (see here: https://www.facebook.com/pg/modelarskykoutek/photos/?ref=page_internal)

 

Same thing with the third, and there are others builders.

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by shion

[GreyGhost]

Bill, you're an A-hole!

 

Whoops! Was that out loud? 

 

-Gregg

[ElectroSoldier]

29 minutes ago, shion said:

 

 

So if he can do this and if he struggles on another kit, maybe it's an indication of how the build of these another kit go?

 

 

 

 

Do you actually build models yourself, or are you an expert modeller because you have seen somebody do it on a blog?

 

I only ask because you seem to imply that all models are much of a muchness... They are all the same, and if you dont struggle on one you wont struggle on any or vice versa.

Model making rarely goes like that.

Edited December 20, 2019 by ElectroSoldier

[Mstor]

6 hours ago, niart17 said:

So anyway....about that page 300....Christmas is looking like a potential target date of hitting that. Anyone want to put down predictions?

 

RAFFLE!!!

Guess the date and time and win... ummmm, what? I know! Our undying admiration!

No? I've got an idea. Hey Sio, we need another one of your F-14s.

[niart17]

1 hour ago, GreyGhost said:

Bill, you're an A-hole!

 

Whoops! Was that out loud? 

 

-Gregg

I would ban you for that BUT you didn't say COMPLETE A-hole...so we're good. 

[Mstor]

1 hour ago, shion said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is kind of off topic, but does anyone know which modeling jig this guy is using? It looks real nice and I would like to get a better one than the one I have currently.

[niart17]

BTW, the count down can begin. 10 pages left!

 

I'm betting we will hit 300 on Tuesday morning...say around 12 central US time.

[Dave Roof]

6 hours ago, shion said:

 

And last but this time the least, do you remember what you said to me few years ago, during the design phase of this project, when AMK show their clear parts design and I pointed out the potential issues with these design choices?  Now you've got in your hands the resulted clear parts with the predicted issues. A comment?

 

 

Yeah, it's really not that big of a deal. First, once the clear parts are put in place, the bent frame is easily corrected. Second, there is another full canopy making the first problem a non issue.