Mr Matt Foley Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 7 hours ago, GW8345 said: It's a little early to be drinking ain't it? The GW in my user name stands for the first initial of my first and last name and anyone who knows anything about the F-14 knows what the 8345 means. George Washington? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Golf Whiskey ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 40 minutes ago, Mr Matt Foley said: George Washington? Gross and weird Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 On 3/11/2019 at 7:40 AM, jgrease said: This speculating and guessing is silly and pointless. If and when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions. I have to disagree with both of these statements (which seem contradictory). >This speculating and guessing is silly and pointless: This thread and the analysis included has been valuable to me because I have learned lots about the details of the F-14 that I otherwise wouldn't have known. I'd imagine this is true for many of the other participants and viewers of the thread as well. I've gathered a bunch of reference, both on my own and saved much of that the others have posted (thank you guys!). This will help me in building and making a more accurate model. In my case, this thread will help me if I decide to make aftermarket parts for the kit. >If and when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions: If not for this thread and what I have learned from it, I would not be able to make an informed buying decision. At this point I doubt we'll see any changes to the tooling. I also doubt we'll see any clear photos/views that will answer our questions about possible geometry issues. It will be interesting when the kit is released and we get to evaluate the actual plastic. Have they said anything recently on FB about a possible release date? On 3/11/2019 at 1:09 PM, habu2 said: At my age bladder issues are a real concern. 24 minutes ago, GW8345 said: Gross and weird Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Zactoman said: Have they said anything recently on FB about a possible release date? Nope. I even asked after thanking Sio for "allowing" us to post some of their pics here. Wanted to be nice about it. I too have learned lot about the F-14 from this thread. I would also dare say that AMK has learned a few things too. If they did, in fact, make changes to the molds, and the fact that there is now the bump over the horizontal stab pivot bears that out, then the feedback here and other places probably played a role in bringing that about. So this kind of thread, when it doesn't degenerate into rude behavior, can be quite useful. I've also learned a great deal on how to turn a critical eye towards the shapes and contours of models using photos of the real thing. Granted, there are limits to this kind of analysis. Photos can be deceiving. Hence our frequent requests for more photos at different angles. And here's the thing. Even once the kit is released, if one doesn't know what the kit should look like, based on the real aircraft, you still can't make an informed judgement (yes, I just realized that is exactly what Zactoman said). Oh well, I just wish they'd release the d**n thing. Unless AMK takes it back to the drawing board for try number three (or four or whatever), we probably won't be seeing more photos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Zactoman - this thread is overwhelmingly based on speculation - I'm sure if we were to count the posts that actually contained information from AMK and compared it to the posts that start with "I sure hope..." and the posts that used the AMK photos and comparisons to real-world photos there would be little doubt this is an EXTREMELY speculative thread. All of the hard information has been provided by AMK - nobody else. You may have learned stuff about the kit from this thread, but all of that info came from the manufacturer, not from the countless wish lists posted here. If you want real information about the F-14 go buy Danny Coremans' book. As I said - the speculation is silly and pointless. "I sure hope AMK does this or that" is meaningless and doesn't change anything AMK has done or will do. Did AMK take feedback from folks and use that feedback? It would appear that they did at some points but not always. It sure seems like the only thing this thread was good at is shutting down the interaction between AMK and the folks that were interacting with them. Further, I stated "when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions". That is a statement of fact - until there is a box with a product available from AMK nobody has any way of knowing how the final product will look or what will be in the box. "If not for this thread and what I have learned from it, I would not be able to make an informed buying decision." - ?!? Ok, if that works for you then good on you! Nothing contradictory in my two statements - they're based on reality and not on guessing or some iphone photos of a test shot on a table in the Philippines or a bunch of hopes and dreams from the folks on ARC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Matt Foley Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, jgrease said: Zactoman - this thread is overwhelmingly based on speculation - I'm sure if we were to count the posts that actually contained information from AMK and compared it to the posts that start with "I sure hope..." and the posts that used the AMK photos and comparisons to real-world photos there would be little doubt this is an EXTREMELY speculative thread. All of the hard information has been provided by AMK - nobody else. You may have learned stuff about the kit from this thread, but all of that info came from the manufacturer, not from the countless wish lists posted here. If you want real information about the F-14 go buy Danny Coremans' book. As I said - the speculation is silly and pointless. "I sure hope AMK does this or that" is meaningless and doesn't change anything AMK has done or will do. Did AMK take feedback from folks and use that feedback? It would appear that they did at some points but not always. It sure seems like the only thing this thread was good at is shutting down the interaction between AMK and the folks that were interacting with them. Further, I stated "when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions". That is a statement of fact - until there is a box with a product available from AMK nobody has any way of knowing how the final product will look or what will be in the box. "If not for this thread and what I have learned from it, I would not be able to make an informed buying decision." - ?!? Ok, if that works for you then good on you! Nothing contradictory in my two statements - they're based on reality and not on guessing or some iphone photos of a test shot on a table in the Philippines or a bunch of hopes and dreams from the folks on ARC. No need to get lathered over it. This whole topic thread is filled with good information as well as the follies of AMK & pre-order mania and delays. Time for me to unfollow again.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgrease Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Not "lathered" at all. This is about a plastic model airplane. I can write without getting upset. Honest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Matt Foley said: No need to get lathered over it. This whole topic thread is filled with good information as well as the follies of AMK & pre-order mania and delays. Time for me to unfollow again.......... Oh, please tell me how to unfollow and not get notifications! My in-box explodes every so often with responses from this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: Oh, please tell me how to unfollow and not get notifications! My in-box explodes every so often with responses from this thread. Up at the top of this page, on the right side of the this threads window, is a black rectangle with the word "Following" in it. Click on it. A popup will display. Click on the red "Unfollow" button at the bottom, right of the popup. Done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Mstor said: Up at the top of this page, on the right side of the this threads window, is a black rectangle with the word "Following" in it. Click on it. A popup will display. Click on the red "Unfollow" button at the bottom, right of the popup. Done. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 How long lasted process of developing of real F-14 aircraft? Wasn't it a little shorter than AMK's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tony.t Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 40 minutes ago, Solo said: How long lasted process of developing of real F-14 aircraft? Wasn't it a little shorter than AMK's? F-111B was cancelled in July 1968 and the F-14A prototype first flew in December 1970, twenty-nine months later. About as long as it takes me to build a kit these days. This AMK creation is worth buying as a piece of history: as controversial as TFX, longer to come to fruition than the real VFX, and may be the swan-song of the company. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foxmulder_ms Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 hours ago, tony.t said: F-111B was cancelled in July 1968 and the F-14A prototype first flew in December 1970, twenty-nine months later. About as long as it takes me to build a kit these days. This AMK creation is worth buying as a piece of history: as controversial as TFX, longer to come to fruition than the real VFX, and may be the swan-song of the company. Tony hahahahahaaaa, now, that is funny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 12 hours ago, jgrease said: Zactoman - this thread is overwhelmingly based on speculation - I'm sure if we were to count the posts that actually contained information from AMK and compared it to the posts that start with "I sure hope..." and the posts that used the AMK photos and comparisons to real-world photos there would be little doubt this is an EXTREMELY speculative thread. All of the hard information has been provided by AMK - nobody else. You may have learned stuff about the kit from this thread, but all of that info came from the manufacturer, not from the countless wish lists posted here. If you want real information about the F-14 go buy Danny Coremans' book. As I said - the speculation is silly and pointless. "I sure hope AMK does this or that" is meaningless and doesn't change anything AMK has done or will do. Did AMK take feedback from folks and use that feedback? It would appear that they did at some points but not always. It sure seems like the only thing this thread was good at is shutting down the interaction between AMK and the folks that were interacting with them. Further, I stated "when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions". That is a statement of fact - until there is a box with a product available from AMK nobody has any way of knowing how the final product will look or what will be in the box. "If not for this thread and what I have learned from it, I would not be able to make an informed buying decision." - ?!? Ok, if that works for you then good on you! Nothing contradictory in my two statements - they're based on reality and not on guessing or some iphone photos of a test shot on a table in the Philippines or a bunch of hopes and dreams from the folks on ARC. On threads like this I tend to skip over (ignore) that which isn't relevant such as wish lists. It saves a lot of frustration. I do have Danny's book. It is a great reference and it helped in making my intake correction set. When I did the correction I focused almost exclusively on the intakes though. Now I am much more familiar with the rest of the airframe and have greatly expanded my reference library which is a good thing. AMK did ask for feedback. Had they provided better pictures the errors might have been caught before they tooled which would have made everybody happier. I don't think things fell apart from the back and forth regarding accuracy so much as the ugly pre-order/delay issues. It's late in the game and tooling has already been done. Big problems have been pointed out. If they fix them I'm sure they will want us to know and the results will end up on this thread. If not, we have a good idea of what we'll get. I'm not sure what your point is about the pictures being test shots, taken by an iPhone or being in the Philippines. Though the pics are not informative enough to fully diagnose the exact problem(s), they do clearly show that there are problems (no guessing involved). Please have a look at my post about making revisions to kits here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/296183-148-ov-10a-bronco/&do=findComment&comment=2863429 This was regarding the OV-10 Bronco kit that I was helping to develop (which AMK happened to be doing the tooling for) but seems relevant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keroburner89 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 This thread is truly spectacular; we've gone from discussing a new release, to CAD drawings, elation, some Tomcat trivia, fan fare, discourse, plastic teases, criticism, abuse, controversy, tribulations, decal shots, test shots, mold shots, laughing, crying, lock outs... heavens we're now even talking Mianzi! It is for these very reasons, that I religiously visit this post... The 3 pre-orders I did of this kit has paid itself off in this thread alone. The entertainment has been glorious. ✌️ Peace all, and I thank you for the 169 pages of endless entertainment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, Keroburner89 said: This thread is truly spectacular; we've gone from discussing a new release, to CAD drawings, elation, some Tomcat trivia, fan fare, discourse, plastic teases, criticism, abuse, controversy, tribulations, decal shots, test shots, mold shots, laughing, crying, lock outs... heavens we're now even talking Mianzi! It is for these very reasons, that I religiously visit this post... The 3 pre-orders I did of this kit has paid itself off in this thread alone. The entertainment has been glorious. ✌️ Peace all, and I thank you for the 169 pages of endless entertainment. You call this entertainment . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keroburner89 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, B.Sin said: You call this entertainment . Sadly sarcasm doesn't articulate itself well over the internet... But there is an element of truth in it, entertaining in various and questionable ways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gun_Metal Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 12 hours ago, B.Sin said: You call this entertainment . 1st time posting but long time lurker, so be gentle. But I agree this thread is fun 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) On 3/13/2019 at 6:30 PM, niart17 said: Very refreshing to see this. People automatically assumed you were speaking ill because it wasn't their views when in fact you were pointing out what you knew about your own culture. True, not everyone from a particular culture falls into the same boat, BUT it's called a culture for a reason. Because people are "cultured" to behave and think in a certain manor. I work for a company that does a LOT of business with Chinese companies and my observations parallel what you'd posted. It's not an affront to them or their culture, it's just how the business mindset has been in that country. Are there exceptions? certainly. But I think your insight has at least some ounce of possibility. Bill Yes exactly! It's only a possibility, wrong or not, we'll never know. It always astonishes me to see people on the outside feel offended, "on behalf of" those who are actually subjected to it/who are actually living through it. As a minority myself, I could appreciate their kind intentions or “correctness”, but like Mark I can see the reality quite clearly, it's wrong to be paint it that simple despite it's "correctness". Edited March 14, 2019 by delide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delide Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) Hmmm, even when Zactoman said that he find the information useful to his work, still the argument must go on, still he must be taught to know better, he must be taught to know what is truly useful?? For me the only negativity about this thread, is the lack of openness from some fellow modellers. What seems pointless to you, may not be pointless to me, why is it so difficult to understand that people can have their own ways/views?? BTW my impression is that AMK shut down the interaction, because they suspected unfair criticism from competitors. I can not know if that’s true, but IMO it wouldn’t have gone half bad, if their work is actually great and somewhat on time, afterall GWH has a thread with CADs of their Su-35 on this forum too, if anything I’d say it boosted their sales as they intended, so what caused the different outcomes? (Or is there anything coming out?) Edited March 14, 2019 by delide typos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 hours ago, delide said: afterall GWH has a thread with CADs of their Su-35 on this forum too Which thread is that? I don't remember there being a thread here about the GWH Su-35 started by any official representative of GWH. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mstor said: Which thread is that? I don't remember there being a thread here about the GWH Su-35 started by any official representative of GWH. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I think the thread being referred to is this one: And you are correct the images posted within the above thread were NOT posted by GWH, but by a member of this site, who may or may not be involved in providing information to GWH to help produce the kit. The CAD images I saw did have the GWH imprint on them, but you can't assume because they are "official" GWH images, that they are posted by the company. Besides AMK (who haven't officially been here in months and months, unless they've been lurking), the only other "official" company rep I've seen posting here regularly is Raymond Chung from LM/Kinetic. Who by the way did make some comments early on in this thread in regards to the dispute that LM had with AMK, as I remember it it was back around page 75 or so of this thread. That dispute iirc involved distribution, not design/development/production per se. I do not remember any criticism of any particular kit AMK is or has produced, by anyone who has identified themselves as a rep for another model company on this forum. Edited March 15, 2019 by madmanrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flybywire Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 15 hours ago, delide said: Hmmm, even when Zactoman said that he find the information useful to his work, still the argument must go on, still he must be taught to know better, he must be taught to know what is truly useful?? For me the only negativity about this thread, is the lack of openness from some fellow modellers. What seems pointless to you, may not be pointless to me, why is it so difficult to understand that people can have their own ways/views?? BTW my impression is that AMK shut down the interaction, because they suspected unfair criticism from competitors. I can not know if that’s true, but IMO it wouldn’t have gone half bad, if their work is actually great and somewhat on time, afterall GWH has a thread with CADs of their Su-35 on this forum too, if anything I’d say it boosted their sales as they intended, so what caused the different outcomes? (Or is there anything coming out?) "For me the only negativity about this thread, is the lack of openness from some fellow modellers. What seems pointless to you, may not be pointless to me, why is it so difficult to understand that people can have their own ways/views??" - We are exactly on the same level of thinking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
punder Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 On 3/13/2019 at 3:08 PM, foxmulder_ms said: hahahahahaaaa, now, that is funny. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find jokes about the downfall of a small and enthusiastic company to be very funny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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