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AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

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the AMK forward fuselage looks very nice!

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On 4/30/2019 at 12:37 PM, Darren Roberts said:

 

I consider myself to be a serious F-14aphile, and I will be purchasing one. You make many good points in your post, but it is tainted with the hyperbole of someone who seems to have an ax to grind against AMK. Unless you put money down, AMK has done nothing to harm you personally. Why waste energy venting against a company that produces plastic toys? As I've said, the kit is what it is. If you don't like it, don't purchase it. If you still want to pick one up to see what it's like, go for it. I just don't understand the passion that's being leveled against the kit and company. 

 

There could be perhaps a SMALL argument made that by setting expectations (both about kit accuracy and delivery timetable), AMK *has* harmed their potential customers from a business/marketing standpoint.

 

AMK has boasted proudly that their kit would be the single most accurate Tomcat kit ever. Tomcat enthusiasts would obviously clamor for such an item, and it shouldn't come as any surprise when the fanbase takes the company to task when their product (prototype shots though they may be) doesn't deliver. That was a claim that Sio and company made in good faith, riding the waves of enthusiasm from those who (somehow) didn't feel their Tomcat modeling needs were being met. They made this claim and were unable to back it up. That was mistake #1.

Secondly, the goalpost that was the release date was a line drawn in the sand and then moved back more than some prior presidential administrations. Once or even twice could be construed as an unforseen mistake. *everyone* is subject to the unknowns, after all... but it seemed to happen a lot, with deadline after deadline passing with no plastic in hand to show for it. That was mistake #2.

 

Thirdly, on top of all that, besides some prototype shots that never really seemed to change or improve, the only feedback that we ever got was "It's coming soon guys, we promise!" with a lot of dodging and ducking of questions from potential customers. EMCON and a lack of transparency don't do AMK any favors. It shakes the faith of the potential customer base and leaves them wondering if AMK can deliver on any of their promises at all.

 

Does AMK owe anyone any transparency or explanations for their silence or delay? No. No money has changed hands yet (that I know of), but when you make the claim that you're gonna release the best tomcat kit ever, and make initial attempts to engage the customer base with 3D models and continual progress with the prototype shots, when you suddenly go silent because you've hit snags it puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Most customers would much rather hear "Hey, we've read your feedback and have taken some things back to the drawing board. We want it to be right, so we're correcting it." than a company that ignores the outcry or worse still, hems and haws about it without really saying what's going on.

 

so, I DO think there has been some harm. AMK's credibility has been shot down like a BF-109 over London, and a lot of people (even if they haven't paid money) made an emotional investiture to be excited about something... only to get hoofed right in the tackle for doing so. As a matter of principle, people SHOULD make their displeasure at these tactics known. We should discourage poor business practices in social media interactions and ultimately vote with our wallets when the product (finally) lands.

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6 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 

There could be perhaps a SMALL argument made that by setting expectations (both about kit accuracy and delivery timetable), AMK *has* harmed their potential customers from a business/marketing standpoint.

 

AMK has boasted proudly that their kit would be the single most accurate Tomcat kit ever. Tomcat enthusiasts would obviously clamor for such an item, and it shouldn't come as any surprise when the fanbase takes the company to task when their product (prototype shots though they may be) doesn't deliver. That was a claim that Sio and company made in good faith, riding the waves of enthusiasm from those who (somehow) didn't feel their Tomcat modeling needs were being met. They made this claim and were unable to back it up. That was mistake #1.

Secondly, the goalpost that was the release date was a line drawn in the sand and then moved back more than some prior presidential administrations. Once or even twice could be construed as an unforseen mistake. *everyone* is subject to the unknowns, after all... but it seemed to happen a lot, with deadline after deadline passing with no plastic in hand to show for it. That was mistake #2.

 

Thirdly, on top of all that, besides some prototype shots that never really seemed to change or improve, the only feedback that we ever got was "It's coming soon guys, we promise!" with a lot of dodging and ducking of questions from potential customers. EMCON and a lack of transparency don't do AMK any favors. It shakes the faith of the potential customer base and leaves them wondering if AMK can deliver on any of their promises at all.

 

Does AMK owe anyone any transparency or explanations for their silence or delay? No. No money has changed hands yet (that I know of), but when you make the claim that you're gonna release the best tomcat kit ever, and make initial attempts to engage the customer base with 3D models and continual progress with the prototype shots, when you suddenly go silent because you've hit snags it puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Most customers would much rather hear "Hey, we've read your feedback and have taken some things back to the drawing board. We want it to be right, so we're correcting it." than a company that ignores the outcry or worse still, hems and haws about it without really saying what's going on.

 

so, I DO think there has been some harm. AMK's credibility has been shot down like a BF-109 over London, and a lot of people (even if they haven't paid money) made an emotional investiture to be excited about something... only to get hoofed right in the tackle for doing so. As a matter of principle, people SHOULD make their displeasure at these tactics known. We should discourage poor business practices in social media interactions and ultimately vote with our wallets when the product (finally) lands.

You make excellent, valid points, and I agree with all of them. However, does it really require 176 pages? The same people (on both sides of the argument) have simply repeated the same things over and over again. That's where I have a disconnect. Does posting five times that AMK botched the rear section make the error more egregious? Does posting a rebuttal to that five times lessen the error? We all know the short-comings of the kit in so far as we can see from the pictures, and we all know that AMK totally screwed up the marketing aspect of it. There's really nothing left to be said until (if) the kit is released.I'm just having a hard time understanding why people are getting so ramped up about it. It is what is. 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

You make excellent, valid points, and I agree with all of them. However, does it really require 176 pages? The same people (on both sides of the argument) have simply repeated the same things over and over again. That's where I have a disconnect. Does posting five times that AMK botched the rear section make the error more egregious? Does posting a rebuttal to that five times lessen the error? We all know the short-comings of the kit in so far as we can see from the pictures, and we all know that AMK totally screwed up the marketing aspect of it. There's really nothing left to be said until (if) the kit is released.I'm just having a hard time understanding why people are getting so ramped up about it. It is what is. 

 

I agree with you about Skull Leader's post, well said. As far as the continued discussions, AMK has, from time to time, displayed parts. We don't know if they are "new improved" or the same old. Some people look at them and pronounce that such and such problem has been fixed. Others then look more closely and find that, no, the problem(s) has not been fixed. So, the discussions continue.

Now, just posting over and over the same old lament that AMK has not released the kit yet is, in my book, a waste of time. When AMK show parts at shows, I become interested because I want to see if they have changed anything. That and any pronouncements by AMK are of interest to me.

Then there are those that just like to post about how useless it is to post about he same old thing :whistle: (sorry Darren, couldn't resist, I don't really include you in that group)

So, to me, there are valid reasons to, from time to time, continue discussions in this thread and for some, it is an interesting subject.

Edited by Mstor

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At this point I have to wonder if we will ever see a truly objective detailed review of the AMK kit when (if) it does come out, or whether all the, what, now six years of slathering over it will have tainted the ability to do so.  If the kit is absolutely perfect I’ll be elated.  But given the history around it to date, we need a really thorough, unbiased, knowledgeable review of it.

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Aah, the agony and the ecstasy.

 

After four years of uncertainty, is this thing going to pop up and disappear all within a short time ?

 

Aah, snooze and you lose, like the dawg's nose ain't been sniffing for nigh on thirty-forty moonths 

 

The hell of it all. And nostrils flared as two Tamiyaas wheeled past the beastie's nose.

 

and noo a thing from the Great Wall beckons.

 

I was digging down towards China, thinking the wee kitsets might pop up in ma face, but alas nought.

 

Oh, the agony, the sheer agony. The horror of it all.

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

You make excellent, valid points, and I agree with all of them. However, does it really require 176 pages? The same people (on both sides of the argument) have simply repeated the same things over and over again. That's where I have a disconnect. Does posting five times that AMK botched the rear section make the error more egregious? Does posting a rebuttal to that five times lessen the error? We all know the short-comings of the kit in so far as we can see from the pictures, and we all know that AMK totally screwed up the marketing aspect of it. There's really nothing left to be said until (if) the kit is released.I'm just having a hard time understanding why people are getting so ramped up about it. It is what is. 

 

Yes and no... the fact that it's gone on for 176 pages is a testament to how long AMK has dragged everyone along. The "dog pile" effect is unfortunate, I'll agree with that. Especially when the "me too/me three" people don't add any kind of new insight, but such is the nature of the internet. People have the right to be heard, but I do agree that more than one post each (unless in response to someone else) without new info OUGHT to be sufficient. Also the hyperbole regarding Tamiya and GWH, or any other company really doesn't really do anyone any favors. I may be guilty of a little of that myself... I can't be bothered to look back through 176 pages to see, lol. It's inevitable, given the circumstances, but it shouldn't overshadow discussion about THIS kit.

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18 hours ago, tony.t said:

Aah, the agony and the ecstasy.

 

After four years of uncertainty, is this thing going to pop up and disappear all within a short time ?

 

Aah, snooze and you lose, like the dawg's nose ain't been sniffing for nigh on thirty-forty moonths 

 

The hell of it all. And nostrils flared as two Tamiyaas wheeled past the beastie's nose.

 

and noo a thing from the Great Wall beckons.

 

I was digging down towards China, thinking the wee kitsets might pop up in ma face, but alas nought.

 

Oh, the agony, the sheer agony. The horror of it all.

 

 

 

 

Indeed, the horror, the horror.

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21 hours ago, Sleepy said:

At this point I have to wonder if we will ever see a truly objective detailed review of the AMK kit when (if) it does come out, or whether all the, what, now six years of slathering over it will have tainted the ability to do so.  If the kit is absolutely perfect I’ll be elated.  But given the history around it to date, we need a really thorough, unbiased, knowledgeable review of it.

 

I'll be able to give an objective review once (if) it comes out. I have no emotional connection one way or the other. I'll be building it as part of my manufacturer build project. I evaluate each kit on separate merits (with some humor thrown in to lighten things up a bit). 

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Ok, today I celebrate second anniversary of my AMK's Tomcat preorder. So I am starting my third year of expectation and hope, that this kit will be released on one very beautiful day...

🙂

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The best thing to come out of this thread in the last three months is the link to the sprue shots of the 1/48 Eduard P-51

That's saying something 

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This should be a case study for model companies in how to mismanage customer expectations as well as how to fail to rectify the situation.

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I think the lesson for companies is not to be so open and share so much for the development of a kit unless you’re prepared to be criticized, especially if you don’t intend to fix things.  Other companies announce a kit, maybe show few CAD drawings, and then soon before the kit is released, show a buildup or sprues, and then release the kit.  There are only a couple of specific announcements over the timeline from initial announcement to kit release.  Live-streaming the development, especially if it’s over a period of years, is just asking to get constantly beat up.

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Making preorder action, selling thousands of such virtual kits for real money, and then forgetting about customers for 2 years… it is really strange and unusual.

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5 hours ago, Solo said:

Making preorder action, selling thousands of such virtual kits for real money, and then forgetting about customers for 2 years… it is really strange and unusual.

 

in my country, we call it fraud!

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10 minutes ago, glorystomper said:

 

in my country, we call it fraud!

this

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1 hour ago, glorystomper said:

 

in my country, we call it fraud!

 

That it is.  But guess what?  There is nobody on earth who is going to pursue fraud perpetuated by a company in China against individual consumers scattered all over the world, for money in the double digits to the left of the decimal point.  So they can get away with it free and clear. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sleepy said:

 

That it is.  But guess what?  There is nobody on earth who is going to pursue fraud perpetuated by a company in China against individual consumers scattered all over the world, for money in the double digits to the left of the decimal point.  So they can get away with it free and clear. 

 

 

except for the credit Card company. they are very diligent about these things. if there are enough complaints from the customers about the pre-orders not being delivered then the CC companies will simply cut them off from doing any business with them. I am very surprised that anyone with a still outstanding pre-order hasn't complained to their respective CC company and gotten a refund that way.

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176 pages of blathering about how wonderful the kit is going to be in spite of copious evidence to the contrary.  I’m not surprised.

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95% of which are comments by whiners such as yourself, that a). have no skin in the game and b). get their thrills by watching the world burn.

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Actually I'd say it's a pretty equal ratio of people who are "bashing" the kit and company's business practices, AKA "whiners" and those that take it way too personally "such as yourself" and attack those people by calling them whiners. I fail to see the maturity in insulting people who are concerned and/or upset about a company. But hey, whatever.

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2 hours ago, niart17 said:

Actually I'd say it's a pretty equal ratio of people who are "bashing" the kit and company's business practices, AKA "whiners" and those that take it way too personally "such as yourself" and attack those people by calling them whiners. I fail to see the maturity in insulting people who are concerned and/or upset about a company. But hey, whatever.

 

I was gonna say it’s a three way split between bashing the kit, bashing the company, and bashing the bashers....

 

🙈  🙉  🙊

 

But hey, whatever.   😎

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1 hour ago, habu2 said:

 

I was gonna say it’s a three way split between bashing the kit, bashing the company, and bashing the bashers....

 

🙈  🙉  🙊

 

But hey, whatever.   😎

 

Yeah, but don't forget about the bashers bashing the bashers that are bashing the bashers! Those guys are too much! Oh, and F-14's are still stupid! 😄 

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