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AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

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4 hours ago, Mstor said:

I really cant tell if this is something based off original F-14B docs or something Heatblur put together using computer generated images for the cockpit stuff.

 

Ralfidude's first Youtube stream on the forthcoming Tomcat featured one of the Heatblur developers and this was discussed.

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6 hours ago, jester292 said:

I must ask, what is your personal issue with AMK? Did you preorder (prepay?) for the kit? Why do you spend so much time and effort trying to make other people dislike AMK?

 

 

I must ask, what is your personal issue with AMK? Did you preorder (prepay?) for the kit? Why do you spend so much time and effort trying to make other people dislike AMK?

 

My perswonal issue with AMK is that I dislike their lying about everything related to us as modellers; back in time they've lied that they were working on a living sample of the SuE in an Argentine naval base (possibly Commander Espora Base), gathering all the required info in order to deliver "THE MOTHER OF ALL SuEs", in the time the Heller 1/48 kit was the only game in town.

No sooner than Kinetic beat them to it we had lies from AMK stating that the project was mysteriously shelved (yeah, right... :rolleyes:)

Next time it was EXACTLY the same with their promised "BEST FOXBAT KIT EVER"; guess what? Kitty Hawk beat them to it once again, so they forgot about their silly promises even though the Kitty Hawk kit was mediocre (but beat them to it with the scale?) :doh:

It doesn't come as a surprise AT ALL that AMK were backpedalling miserably about their promised "Super-Arch-Mega F-14 kit" after Tamiya had beaten them to it - TWICE!  :rofl:Not a much more serious company is to beat them to it -

It doesn't quite matter whether I pre-paid or not, as much as I couldn't care less than a rat's arse whether other modellers on here might dislike AMK or not. I speak for myself, and nobody else.

 

6 hours ago, jester292 said:

I couldn’t care less what AMK says, does, or markets. But it’s fascinating to me that you personally cannot tolerate anyone liking, or being patient with, AMK.  Just trying to understand your frustration with those who don’t share your hatred for AMK. 

 

My problem is not with anyone who likes AMK; not at all, even though I'm quite sure that if AMK ever thought about pulling off the pre-order option, it was surely owing to the great amount of modellers polishing their knob, going like: "Oh, yes; IF AMK release an F-14 kit in the level of quality of their MiG-31, THEN I'll pee on my pants just out of thrill and excitement!" 

Well, you can see many of those same modellers on here who've changed their minds lately regarding AMK because of all this (you know who you are). And could you ever blame them? I can't.

So, Jester, please don't give me the sorry line that you couldn't care less what AMK says, does, or markets when you chose to support AMK on their stupid pre-order prerrogative: "Uh... listen up, sports. IF we can secure a 5000-pre-order mark, THEN we are gonna be given the green light" 'cause I think I'm gonna be more prone to believe if you say that the Earth is flat. 

Any other manufacturers have ever asked to pre-order in order to start development? Any other manufacturer that you recall of pulling this idiot private club on Facebook, threatening not to share their info outside that platform lest you'd be banned?

I did think of ever doing that not even when I used to play Counter Strike online! Really immature of them.

It's my own belief, and I don't expect to cause any sensation with it.

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1 hour ago, Doppelgänger said:

 

 

 

My perswonal issue with AMK is that I dislike their lying about everything related to us as modellers; back in time they've lied that they were working on a living sample of the SuE in an Argentine naval base (possibly Commander Espora Base), gathering all the required info in order to deliver "THE MOTHER OF ALL SuEs", in the time the Heller 1/48 kit was the only game in town.

No sooner than Kinetic beat them to it we had lies from AMK stating that the project was mysteriously shelved (yeah, right... :rolleyes:)

Next time it was EXACTLY the same with their promised "BEST FOXBAT KIT EVER"; guess what? Kitty Hawk beat them to it once again, so they forgot about their silly promises even though the Kitty Hawk kit was mediocre (but beat them to it with the scale?) :doh:

It doesn't come as a surprise AT ALL that AMK were backpedalling miserably about their promised "Super-Arch-Mega F-14 kit" after Tamiya had beaten them to it - TWICE!  :rofl:Not a much more serious company is to beat them to it -

It doesn't quite matter whether I pre-paid or not, as much as I couldn't care less than a rat's arse whether other modellers on here might dislike AMK or not. I speak for myself, and nobody else.

 

 

My problem is not with anyone who likes AMK; not at all, even though I'm quite sure that if AMK ever thought about pulling off the pre-order option, it was surely owing to the great amount of modellers polishing their knob, going like: "Oh, yes; IF AMK release an F-14 kit in the level of quality of their MiG-31, THEN I'll pee on my pants just out of thrill and excitement!" 

Well, you can see many of those same modellers on here who've changed their minds lately regarding AMK because of all this (you know who you are). And could you ever blame them? I can't.

So, Jester, please don't give me the sorry line that you couldn't care less what AMK says, does, or markets when you chose to support AMK on their stupid pre-order prerrogative: "Uh... listen up, sports. IF we can secure a 5000-pre-order mark, THEN we are gonna be given the green light" 'cause I think I'm gonna be more prone to believe if you say that the Earth is flat. 

Any other manufacturers have ever asked to pre-order in order to start development? Any other manufacturer that you recall of pulling this idiot private club on Facebook, threatening not to share their info outside that platform lest you'd be banned?

I did think of ever doing that not even when I used to play Counter Strike online! Really immature of them.

It's my own belief, and I don't expect to cause any sensation with it.

 

 

Breath :) 

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1 hour ago, Doppelgänger said:

 

 

 

My perswonal issue with AMK is that I dislike their lying about everything related to us as modellers; back in time they've lied that they were working on a living sample of the SuE in an Argentine naval base (possibly Commander Espora Base), gathering all the required info in order to deliver "THE MOTHER OF ALL SuEs", in the time the Heller 1/48 kit was the only game in town.

No sooner than Kinetic beat them to it we had lies from AMK stating that the project was mysteriously shelved (yeah, right... :rolleyes:)

Next time it was EXACTLY the same with their promised "BEST FOXBAT KIT EVER"; guess what? Kitty Hawk beat them to it once again, so they forgot about their silly promises even though the Kitty Hawk kit was mediocre (but beat them to it with the scale?) :doh:

It doesn't come as a surprise AT ALL that AMK were backpedalling miserably about their promised "Super-Arch-Mega F-14 kit" after Tamiya had beaten them to it - TWICE!  :rofl:Not a much more serious company is to beat them to it -

It doesn't quite matter whether I pre-paid or not, as much as I couldn't care less than a rat's arse whether other modellers on here might dislike AMK or not. I speak for myself, and nobody else.

 

 

My problem is not with anyone who likes AMK; not at all, even though I'm quite sure that if AMK ever thought about pulling off the pre-order option, it was surely owing to the great amount of modellers polishing their knob, going like: "Oh, yes; IF AMK release an F-14 kit in the level of quality of their MiG-31, THEN I'll pee on my pants just out of thrill and excitement!" 

Well, you can see many of those same modellers on here who've changed their minds lately regarding AMK because of all this (you know who you are). And could you ever blame them? I can't.

So, Jester, please don't give me the sorry line that you couldn't care less what AMK says, does, or markets when you chose to support AMK on their stupid pre-order prerrogative: "Uh... listen up, sports. IF we can secure a 5000-pre-order mark, THEN we are gonna be given the green light" 'cause I think I'm gonna be more prone to believe if you say that the Earth is flat. 

Any other manufacturers have ever asked to pre-order in order to start development? Any other manufacturer that you recall of pulling this idiot private club on Facebook, threatening not to share their info outside that platform lest you'd be banned?

I did think of ever doing that not even when I used to play Counter Strike online! Really immature of them.

It's my own belief, and I don't expect to cause any sensation with it.

 

Your anger is epic. I haven’t sent them money, but even if I had it would be entirely my choice. I just have too many other priorities to be wound up over the marketing campaign of a model airplane company. Ultimately I was wondering why you’re so mad at them. Thanks for the answer but I still don’t see why it’s taken personally. 

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On 2/8/2019 at 3:53 AM, dylan said:

I can already see the transition from the vertical portion to the area sloping up towards the vertical stab has not been fixed. Sio says that they have made some changes, but the whole shape is still very off IMO.

I agree that it is still off. I hoped to put together some illustrations accompanied with photos to show the problems that I see, but I've been too busy.

The way I see it in order to truly fix the problems they would need to re-tool both upper and lower fuselage halves, the stabs and the rear exhaust cover pieces as the fairing on those parts is the wrong profile.

This would be expensive and time consuming so they seem to have decided to just add the bump (which I question the shape of).

In the end it looks like we'll get a kit that with some elbow grease, sandpaper and putty, could be fixed if the modeler cares enough.

 

On 2/8/2019 at 10:11 PM, dylan said:

I am posting these mostly for the guys that are not on Facebook, and also for discussion.

Thank you from someone not on Facebook. :thumbsup:

Seems silly to exclude the majority of the modeling community and potential customers from updates of a kit that they got everybody hyped about.

 

On 2/8/2019 at 10:11 PM, dylan said:

I will take a few shots of the Tamiya kit from similar angles later.

Looking forward to the comparison. It's unfortunate that the rear exhaust cover pieces weren't included on the updated photos.

 

4 hours ago, gtypecanare said:

Edited 4 hours ago by gtypecanare
coding

As in "Learn to code"? :coolio:

 

51 minutes ago, Geoff M said:

Why did they unlock this?

This is the most replied to subject on the ARC jet modeling forum as well as the second most viewed. It has been the most hyped kit release for what seems like years.

The thread was unlocked so we could discuss the kit development and related issues. Yes, some tend to get a little overly emotional (to whom I suggest watching the "Stay on target" video posted above...), but they are still discussing related issues. Nobody is forcing you to read their comments.

 

:cheers:

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I find this thread fascinating.  I have been exposed to more 'inside baseball" about the scale plastic modeling industry than in most years combined by this one thread (thanks goes to all of of the ARC community for this).

 

Sure there are some a$$-hat comments, of which one or two could be attributable to me, but overall, it has been quite educational.  I do understand when things get political, the thread (deservedly so) gets a "go sit in the corner" moment. And I  fully support when a 'industry parter" asks, that the thread is re-opened.  Hopefully it will stay that way until the kit is released. 

 

Indeed, it is just a plastic kit, but when we see the promise that was delivered with the MiG-31, a number of us that had put faith (and hard earned cash, into unscrupulous online hobby stores) into AMK's word of the "best ever", it had a level of authenticity to it. All while blindly ignoring both their SuE and Kfir "issue".  As an aside, this is reminiscent of the original lily drone, (which one of my friends did invest in).

 

I still hope AMK knocks the ball out of the park on this.  But, even though I was "in for three" with victory models (given AMK's price point), i suspect that I will be putting cash in GWH's hands, when all is said and done.  

 

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17 hours ago, erik_g said:

You guys might not be losing sleep over the Tomcat, but I sure did, when this was published last night.. 
http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/index.html
 

Why oh why did I stay up reading about AWG-9 in the middle of the night.. dead tired now.. 


It´s the OTHER Tomcat I have pre-ordered.... 😄

I wouldn't believe everything you read in that link, I read a few things in that link and there are numerous errors.

 

For one, the F-14 never carried the "Smokewinder" and the only time it carried Mk 81's was in the early 70's during testing. The Tomcat also never carried the Mk 82AIR, the F-14B could only carry 4 Mk 20 Rockeye's, not 10 (which they are claiming), nor could did it carry Zuni's (and you would NEVER put a rocket pod on the belly, that's a sure fire way to get a compressor stall!), we also didn't carry the BDU-33 (we carried Mk 76's)

 

It also stated that the wing station Phoenix's had their own cooling system, this is wrong, the wing Phoenix's were dependent on the cooling system in the right hand Phoenix Fairing. The gun held 678 rounds and (as I just stated) the Phoenix cooling system (for the F-14A and B) was contained in the right hand Phoenix Faring, the left hand Faring was for aerodynamic purposes only.

 

Also, their weapons loading diagram is a farce!!!!

Edited by GW8345

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1 hour ago, GW8345 said:

I wouldn't believe everything you read in that link, I read a few things in that link and there are numerous errors.

 

For one, the F-14 never carried the "Smokewinder" and the only time it carried Mk 81's was in the early 70's during testing. The Tomcat also never carried the Mk 82AIR, the F-14B could only carry 4 Mk 20 Rockeye's, not 10 (which they are claiming), nor could did it carry Zuni's (and you would NEVER put a rocket pod on the belly, that's a sure fire way to get a compressor stall!), we also didn't carry the BDU-33 (we carried Mk 76's)

 

It also stated that the wing station Phoenix's had their own cooling system, this is wrong, the wing Phoenix's were dependent on the cooling system in the right hand Phoenix Fairing. The gun held 678 rounds and (as I just stated) the Phoenix cooling system (for the F-14A and B) was contained in the right hand Phoenix Faring, the left hand Faring was for aerodynamic purposes only.

 

Also, their weapons loading diagram is a farce!!!!

 

 

If there is one thing i learned in this hobby, it's NEVER say never.

 

aircraft_46.jpg

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39 minutes ago, SpiritZeroThree said:

 

 

If there is one thing i learned in this hobby, it's NEVER say never.

 

aircraft_46.jpg

That is not a Mk 82AIR, that is a Mk 83 Mod 4 with a BSU-85/B. The Mk 82AIR is a 500 lb bomb, the above is a 1,000 lb bomb.

 

The USN/USMC has not used the Mk 82AIR in 40+ years, it is only used by the USAF in America.

 

V/R

A retired Tomcat Ordie.

Edited by GW8345

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GW knows his stuff for sure! Great picture btw!

Edited by Whiskey

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3 hours ago, GW8345 said:

I wouldn't believe everything you read in that link, I read a few things in that link and there are numerous errors.

 

For one, the F-14 never carried the "Smokewinder" and the only time it carried Mk 81's was in the early 70's during testing. The Tomcat also never carried the Mk 82AIR, the F-14B could only carry 4 Mk 20 Rockeye's, not 10 (which they are claiming), nor could did it carry Zuni's (and you would NEVER put a rocket pod on the belly, that's a sure fire way to get a compressor stall!), we also didn't carry the BDU-33 (we carried Mk 76's)

 

It also stated that the wing station Phoenix's had their own cooling system, this is wrong, the wing Phoenix's were dependent on the cooling system in the right hand Phoenix Fairing. The gun held 678 rounds and (as I just stated) the Phoenix cooling system (for the F-14A and B) was contained in the right hand Phoenix Faring, the left hand Faring was for aerodynamic purposes only.

 

Also, their weapons loading diagram is a farce!!!!

 

May I direct you to the appropriate forum to highlight these issues?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=395

 

Mark

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I never say never. Never. 

Edited by habu2

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5 hours ago, Zactoman said:

Thank you from someone not on Facebook. :thumbsup:

Seems silly to exclude the majority of the modeling community and potential customers from updates of a kit that they got everybody hyped about.

 

 

:cheers:

well Sio booted me off the facebook group for sharing those, so these might be the last of em. I tried to take a couple of quick shots similar to the amk photos for you. I might re shoot them later this week when I have more time

 

DSC_0348-L.jpg

 

51538385_10218548129843148_6531442666373

 

DSC_0349-L.jpg

 

51623594_10218548128963126_4597810847404

 

AMK have lost a lot of customers here, and there was many comments attacking them on their facebook page before they finally decided to speak up and ask us not to discuss the kit. I can see that they are being managed by someone who has no real experience with this type of thing. first there was many delays and then when we finally saw plastic we pointed out flaws so  they tried to cover them up by not replying or by stating that they were early molds/3d printed copies. even saying that there was an optical illusion.

most of us that are unhappy with the way this is being handled are so because Sio thinks we are fools and that we will believe his outright lies. to top it all off he has the audacity to suggest that we shouldn't discuss the kit on model forums. and then threatens to remove us from the group if we do. I STRONGLY DISAGREE with that.

 

having said all that, I suggest that we try to keep the discussion to the kit and the associated details. AMK seem quite capable of falling on their faces without our help.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, GW8345 said:

I wouldn't believe everything you read in that link, I read a few things in that link and there are numerous errors.

 

For one, the F-14 never carried the "Smokewinder" and the only time it carried Mk 81's was in the early 70's during testing. The Tomcat also never carried the Mk 82AIR, the F-14B could only carry 4 Mk 20 Rockeye's, not 10 (which they are claiming), nor could did it carry Zuni's (and you would NEVER put a rocket pod on the belly, that's a sure fire way to get a compressor stall!), we also didn't carry the BDU-33 (we carried Mk 76's)

 

It also stated that the wing station Phoenix's had their own cooling system, this is wrong, the wing Phoenix's were dependent on the cooling system in the right hand Phoenix Fairing. The gun held 678 rounds and (as I just stated) the Phoenix cooling system (for the F-14A and B) was contained in the right hand Phoenix Faring, the left hand Faring was for aerodynamic purposes only.

 

Also, their weapons loading diagram is a farce!!!!


Well, it´s for the forthcoming DCS module of the Tomcat, so it won´t reflect actual Tomcat service. But it should be based off NATOPS and other documentation as well as some input from Tomcat people. I am in touch with the guy who wrote the manual through Twitter, so I´ll forward your comments.

As for the smokewinder, that is probably just for fun and game..

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6 hours ago, GW8345 said:

I wouldn't believe everything you read in that link, I read a few things in that link and there are numerous errors.

 

For one, the F-14 never carried the "Smokewinder" and the only time it carried Mk 81's was in the early 70's during testing. The Tomcat also never carried the Mk 82AIR, the F-14B could only carry 4 Mk 20 Rockeye's, not 10 (which they are claiming), nor could did it carry Zuni's (and you would NEVER put a rocket pod on the belly, that's a sure fire way to get a compressor stall!), we also didn't carry the BDU-33 (we carried Mk 76's)

 

It also stated that the wing station Phoenix's had their own cooling system, this is wrong, the wing Phoenix's were dependent on the cooling system in the right hand Phoenix Fairing. The gun held 678 rounds and (as I just stated) the Phoenix cooling system (for the F-14A and B) was contained in the right hand Phoenix Faring, the left hand Faring was for aerodynamic purposes only.

 

Also, their weapons loading diagram is a farce!!!!

 

I think they were relying on the original NATOPS, like e.g.:

 

RRXF7Hz.png

 

They have a few former pilots and RIO's supporting them so they are aware that the Bombcats didn't actually use most of these or that the numbers carried of some types were reduced operationally due to separation issues or what not, but it's a flight simulation game, not a documentary, so extra weapon options are provided as a bonus (as long as they're in the manual).

 

This particular manual for the upcoming Tomcat module just got posted a day or two ago so there are errors in it naturally, but they're welcoming any feedback and are working on it.

 

Sorry for the OT, but in the absence of news from AMK..

Edited by ijozic

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3 hours ago, dylan said:

I tried to take a couple of quick shots similar to the amk photos for you. I might re shoot them later this week when I have more time

 

Thank you for the photos.

 

I'm no Tomcat expert, is the side view "sponson" thickness the issue? Or the the inflatable bag end angle at cross section?

 

I was under the impression the big deal was the top view too curvy contours leading to what a booty.

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10 hours ago, Zactoman said:

I agree that it is still off. I hoped to put together some illustrations accompanied with photos to show the problems that I see, but I've been too busy.

The way I see it in order to truly fix the problems they would need to re-tool both upper and lower fuselage halves, the stabs and the rear exhaust cover pieces as the fairing on those parts is the wrong profile.

This would be expensive and time consuming so they seem to have decided to just add the bump (which I question the shape of).

In the end it looks like we'll get a kit that with some elbow grease, sandpaper and putty, could be fixed if the modeler cares enough.

 

Thank you from someone not on Facebook. :thumbsup:

Seems silly to exclude the majority of the modeling community and potential customers from updates of a kit that they got everybody hyped about.

 

Looking forward to the comparison. It's unfortunate that the rear exhaust cover pieces weren't included on the updated photos.

 

As in "Learn to code"? :coolio:

 

This is the most replied to subject on the ARC jet modeling forum as well as the second most viewed. It has been the most hyped kit release for what seems like years.

The thread was unlocked so we could discuss the kit development and related issues. Yes, some tend to get a little overly emotional (to whom I suggest watching the "Stay on target" video posted above...), but they are still discussing related issues. Nobody is forcing you to read their comments.

 

:cheers:

... the most viewed, the most hyped, and yet the most unseen styrene ever.....

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3 hours ago, dylan said:

well Sio booted me off the facebook group for sharing those, so these might be the last of em. I tried to take a couple of quick shots similar to the amk photos for you. I might re shoot them later this week when I have more time

 

DSC_0348-L.jpg

 

51538385_10218548129843148_6531442666373

 

DSC_0349-L.jpg

 

51623594_10218548128963126_4597810847404

 

AMK have lost a lot of customers here, and there was many comments attacking them on their facebook page before they finally decided to speak up and ask us not to discuss the kit. I can see that they are being managed by someone who has no real experience with this type of thing. first there was many delays and then when we finally saw plastic we pointed out flaws so  they tried to cover them up by not replying or by stating that they were early molds/3d printed copies. even saying that there was an optical illusion.

most of us that are unhappy with the way this is being handled are so because Sio thinks we are fools and that we will believe his outright lies. to top it all off he has the audacity to suggest that we shouldn't discuss the kit on model forums. and then threatens to remove us from the group if we do. I STRONGLY DISAGREE with that.

 

having said all that, I suggest that we try to keep the discussion to the kit and the associated details. AMK seem quite capable of falling on their faces without our help.

 

 

 

... first, wrong marketing/business strategy, followed by wrong customer/modeler treatment... what's next...

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I really hope they get their act together. It would be nice to finally see this kit on shelves. Guess I’ll have to secure a couple Tamiya kits instead. 

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Zacto- i would appreciate your input on this- am i correct in saying that the major flaw of the "hip" area is more the cross section as opposed to the planform? It seems to me that said area slopes down too much, which then makes the whole thing look too curvy from certain angles. This is where i for one really appreciate the red lines drawn over the kit vs the real thing, so as to see if i can execute some sort of fix. I am thinking that perhaps some polyester resin followed by sanding to alter the shape would be a possible solution?  Obviously far from ideal but a possibility for those inclined to do so?

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This thread mystifies me.  163 pages and 4100 posts, all about a kit that isn’t even out yet.  At this point, does it even matter if the AMK kit ever comes out?  If the AMK kit ever does come out and people won’t buy because it’s rife with errors, who cares?  It’s AMK’s loss.  The Tamiya kit is out there for anyone looking for a new tool alternative to the old Hasegawa kits.  

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Hmm... until AMK release the actual kit I believe that everything (and a lot more) really has been said in this thread by now.

 

(But yes I know, I could just stop following this thread...)

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11 hours ago, dylan said:

well Sio booted me off the facebook group for sharing those, so these might be the last of em. I tried to take a couple of quick shots similar to the amk photos for you. I might re shoot them later this week when I have more time

 

DSC_0348-L.jpg

 

51538385_10218548129843148_6531442666373

 

DSC_0349-L.jpg

 

51623594_10218548128963126_4597810847404

 

 

 

 

Good photos, thanks Dylan. Looking at the first two, it would seem that the AMK kit still has an outward curve in the area ahead of the stab pivot, where on the Tamiya kit you can see that that area is straight and flat. Your Tamiya photo is not quite at the same angle as the AMK one and is further away. If you do retake the pics if you could move a little closer and come in from the rear a little more.

Here's a pic of the area in question on an F-14D:

f-14d_159600_christine_parts_112_of_354

Note how the area in front of the pivot and almost all the way to the "gas bag" is flat, not curved outward. Also how small the bump over the stab pivot is (yes I know, part is missing, but you can get the general idea of its shape from the panels).

As Zactoman has stated, we also need to see the engine fairing part attached to the rear as I believe there were problems with the profile there too. Finally, they may have actually exaggerated the bump over the pivot, but it is hard to tell.

Edited by Mstor

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