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AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:48 AM, gb_madcat_sl said:

I apologise if my previous post caused any negative feelings but this is just my observation of what’s been going on with regard to AMK’s posts so far and seen through my eyes as a Chinese person born and raised in a Chinese majority country. 

 

Mark

 Very refreshing to see this. People automatically assumed you were speaking ill because it wasn't their views when in fact you were pointing out what you knew about your own culture. True, not everyone from a particular culture falls into the same boat, BUT it's called a culture for a reason. Because people are "cultured" to behave and think in a certain manor. I work for a company that does a LOT of business with Chinese companies and my observations parallel what you'd posted. It's not an affront to them or their culture, it's just how the business mindset has been in that country. Are there exceptions? certainly. But I think your insight has at least some ounce of possibility.

 

Bill

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40 minutes ago, Solo said:

How long lasted process of developing of real F-14 aircraft? Wasn't it a little shorter than AMK's?

 

F-111B was cancelled in July 1968 and the F-14A prototype first flew in December 1970, twenty-nine months later.

 

About as long as it takes me to build a kit these days. 

 

This AMK creation is worth buying as a piece of history: as controversial as TFX, longer to come to fruition than the real VFX, and may be the swan-song of the company.

 

Tony 

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3 hours ago, tony.t said:

 

F-111B was cancelled in July 1968 and the F-14A prototype first flew in December 1970, twenty-nine months later.

 

About as long as it takes me to build a kit these days. 

 

This AMK creation is worth buying as a piece of history: as controversial as TFX, longer to come to fruition than the real VFX, and may be the swan-song of the company.

 

Tony 

 

 

hahahahahaaaa, now, that is funny. 

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12 hours ago, jgrease said:

Zactoman - this thread is overwhelmingly based on speculation - I'm sure if we were to count the posts that actually contained information from AMK and compared it to the posts that start with "I sure hope..." and the posts that used the AMK photos and comparisons to real-world photos there would be little doubt this is an EXTREMELY speculative thread. All of the hard information has been provided by AMK - nobody else. You may have learned stuff about the kit from this thread, but all of that info came from the manufacturer, not from the countless wish lists posted here. If you want real information about the F-14 go buy Danny Coremans' book. As I said - the speculation is silly and pointless. "I sure hope AMK does this or that" is meaningless and doesn't change anything AMK has done or will do. Did AMK take feedback from folks and use that feedback? It would appear that they did at some points but not always. It sure seems like the only thing this thread was good at is shutting down the interaction between AMK and the folks that were interacting with them.

Further, I stated "when the kit is released we'll all be able to make informed buying decisions". That is a statement of fact - until there is a box with a product available from AMK nobody has any way of knowing how the final product will look or what will be in the box. "If not for this thread and what I have learned from it, I would not be able to make an informed buying decision." - ?!? Ok, if that works for you then good on you! Nothing contradictory in my two statements - they're based on reality and not on guessing or some iphone photos of a test shot on a table in the Philippines or a bunch of hopes and dreams from the folks on ARC.

On threads like this I tend to skip over (ignore) that which isn't relevant such as wish lists. It saves a lot of frustration.

 

I do have Danny's book. It is a great reference and it helped in making my intake correction set. When I did the correction I focused almost exclusively on the intakes though. Now I am much more familiar with the rest of the airframe and have greatly expanded my reference library which is a good thing.

 

AMK did ask for feedback. Had they provided better pictures the errors might have been caught before they tooled which would have made everybody happier. I don't think things fell apart from the back and forth regarding accuracy so much as the ugly pre-order/delay issues.

 

It's late in the game and tooling has already been done. Big problems have been pointed out. If they fix them I'm sure they will want us to know and the results will end up on this thread. If not, we have a good idea of what we'll get.

 

I'm not sure what your point is about the pictures being test shots, taken by an iPhone or being in the Philippines. Though the pics are not informative enough to fully diagnose the exact problem(s), they do clearly show that there are problems (no guessing involved).

 

Please have a look at my post about making revisions to kits here:  http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/296183-148-ov-10a-bronco/&do=findComment&comment=2863429

This was regarding the OV-10 Bronco kit that I was helping to develop (which AMK happened to be doing the tooling for) but seems relevant.

 

:cheers:

 

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This thread is truly spectacular; we've gone from discussing a new release, to CAD drawings, elation, some Tomcat trivia, fan fare, discourse, plastic teases, criticism, abuse, controversy, tribulations, decal shots, test shots, mold shots, laughing, crying, lock outs... heavens we're now even talking Mianzi!

 

It is for these very reasons, that I religiously visit this post... The 3 pre-orders I did of this kit has paid itself off in this thread alone. The entertainment has been glorious.

 

✌️ Peace all, and I thank you for the 169 pages of endless entertainment. 

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26 minutes ago, Keroburner89 said:

This thread is truly spectacular; we've gone from discussing a new release, to CAD drawings, elation, some Tomcat trivia, fan fare, discourse, plastic teases, criticism, abuse, controversy, tribulations, decal shots, test shots, mold shots, laughing, crying, lock outs... heavens we're now even talking Mianzi!

 

It is for these very reasons, that I religiously visit this post... The 3 pre-orders I did of this kit has paid itself off in this thread alone. The entertainment has been glorious.

 

✌️ Peace all, and I thank you for the 169 pages of endless entertainment. 

You call this entertainment .

 

 

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2 minutes ago, B.Sin said:

You call this entertainment .

 

 

 

Sadly sarcasm doesn't articulate itself well over the internet... 

 

But there is an element of truth in it, entertaining in various and questionable ways.

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12 hours ago, B.Sin said:

You call this entertainment .

 

 

 

1st time posting but long time lurker, so be gentle. But I agree this thread is fun 😄

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2019 at 6:30 PM, niart17 said:

 Very refreshing to see this. People automatically assumed you were speaking ill because it wasn't their views when in fact you were pointing out what you knew about your own culture. True, not everyone from a particular culture falls into the same boat, BUT it's called a culture for a reason. Because people are "cultured" to behave and think in a certain manor. I work for a company that does a LOT of business with Chinese companies and my observations parallel what you'd posted. It's not an affront to them or their culture, it's just how the business mindset has been in that country. Are there exceptions? certainly. But I think your insight has at least some ounce of possibility.

 

Bill

Yes exactly! It's only a possibility, wrong or not, we'll never know. It always astonishes me to see people on the outside feel offended, "on behalf of" those who are actually subjected to it/who are actually living through it. As a minority myself, I could appreciate their kind intentions or “correctness”, but like Mark I can see the reality quite clearly, it's wrong to be paint it that simple despite it's "correctness".

Edited by delide

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Posted (edited)

Hmmm, even when Zactoman said that he find the information useful to his work,  still the argument must go on, still he must be taught to know better, he must be taught to know what is truly useful??
 
For me the only negativity about this thread, is the lack of openness from some fellow modellers. What seems pointless to you, may not be pointless to me,  why is it so difficult to understand that people can have their own ways/views??

BTW my impression is that AMK shut down the interaction, because they suspected unfair criticism from competitors. I can not know if that’s true, but IMO it wouldn’t have gone half bad, if their work is actually great and somewhat on time, afterall GWH has a thread with CADs of their Su-35 on this forum too, if anything I’d say it boosted their sales as they intended, so what caused the different outcomes? (Or is there anything coming out?)

Edited by delide
typos

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2 hours ago, delide said:

afterall GWH has a thread with CADs of their Su-35 on this forum too

 

Which thread is that? I don't remember there being a thread here about the GWH Su-35 started by any official representative of GWH. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

Which thread is that? I don't remember there being a thread here about the GWH Su-35 started by any official representative of GWH. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

I think the thread being referred to is this one:

 

And you are correct the images posted within the above thread were NOT posted by GWH, but by a member of this site, who may or may not be involved in providing information to GWH to help produce the kit. The CAD images I saw did have the GWH imprint on them, but you can't assume because they are "official" GWH images, that they are posted by the company. Besides AMK (who haven't officially been here in months and months, unless they've been lurking), the only other "official" company rep I've seen posting here regularly is Raymond Chung from LM/Kinetic. Who by the way did make some comments early on in this thread in regards to the dispute that LM had with AMK, as I remember it it was back around page 75 or so of this thread. That dispute iirc involved distribution, not design/development/production per se. I do not remember any criticism of any particular kit AMK is or has produced, by anyone who has identified themselves as a rep for another model company on this forum. 

Edited by madmanrick

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15 hours ago, delide said:

Hmmm, even when Zactoman said that he find the information useful to his work,  still the argument must go on, still he must be taught to know better, he must be taught to know what is truly useful??
 
For me the only negativity about this thread, is the lack of openness from some fellow modellers. What seems pointless to you, may not be pointless to me,  why is it so difficult to understand that people can have their own ways/views??

BTW my impression is that AMK shut down the interaction, because they suspected unfair criticism from competitors. I can not know if that’s true, but IMO it wouldn’t have gone half bad, if their work is actually great and somewhat on time, afterall GWH has a thread with CADs of their Su-35 on this forum too, if anything I’d say it boosted their sales as they intended, so what caused the different outcomes? (Or is there anything coming out?)

"For me the only negativity about this thread, is the lack of openness from some fellow modellers. What seems pointless to you, may not be pointless to me,  why is it so difficult to understand that people can have their own ways/views??" - We are exactly on the same level of thinking.

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On 3/13/2019 at 3:08 PM, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

hahahahahaaaa, now, that is funny. 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't find jokes about the downfall of a small and enthusiastic company to be very funny.

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20 hours ago, madmanrick said:

I think the thread being referred to is this one:

 

And you are correct the images posted within the above thread were NOT posted by GWH, but by a member of this site, who may or may not be involved in providing information to GWH to help produce the kit. The CAD images I saw did have the GWH imprint on them, but you can't assume because they are "official" GWH images, that they are posted by the company. Besides AMK (who haven't officially been here in months and months, unless they've been lurking), the only other "official" company rep I've seen posting here regularly is Raymond Chung from LM/Kinetic. Who by the way did make some comments early on in this thread in regards to the dispute that LM had with AMK, as I remember it it was back around page 75 or so of this thread. That dispute iirc involved distribution, not design/development/production per se. I do not remember any criticism of any particular kit AMK is or has produced, by anyone who has identified themselves as a rep for another model company on this forum. 

Thanks! I think it is too X-)

 

Sorry about the confusion, by "GWH has a thread about their kit" I meant we have a thread about GWH's kit, in my view it's similar regarding the posted pre-release infomation,  yet the reception was different. Official or not, that is hardly going to shield from criticisms, my point is that if you have truly done a great job, then you can remove a lot of ground for criticism. On the other hand if it all went wrong, it's unfair to blame it on the modelers, or even on the competitors, after all it could be a bigger blow if they got the plastic out first.

 

Yes, it's not a easy bussiness to make money at all. I hardly know a thing about the fallout between AMK and Raymond/Kinetic, but that seems to be a pity, as Raymond has been very sucessful at improving the design and quality of his kits, his team is also quite productive, AMK could certainly borrow a page or two from his book. But surely that was never meant to be, especially looking at the 1/48 Magister, Kfir, SUE, Kinetic released them all first I think, the Magister quite a bit earlier,  so I'd guess AMK wanted to do 1 on 1 anyway, unfortunately there is not going to be 2 winners.

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5 hours ago, delide said:

Sorry about the confusion, by "GWH has a thread about their kit" I meant we have a thread about GWH's kit

 

Ahhh, I thought you meant that GWH had some sort of thread that they started and participated in. Mea culpa. 

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On 3/13/2019 at 10:27 PM, Keroburner89 said:

This thread is truly spectacular; we've gone from discussing a new release, to CAD drawings, elation, some Tomcat trivia, fan fare, discourse, plastic teases, criticism, abuse, controversy, tribulations, decal shots, test shots, mold shots, laughing, crying, lock outs... heavens we're now even talking Mianzi!

 

It is for these very reasons, that I religiously visit this post... The 3 pre-orders I did of this kit has paid itself off in this thread alone. The entertainment has been glorious.

 

✌️ Peace all, and I thank you for the 169 pages of endless entertainment. 

 

Just remember...I started the 100th page.

 

Back to unfollow.....

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At the end of the day if the kit was at least close none of the discussion re its back end would be happening no matter who posted the photos.

AMK are obviously upset a competitor posted images of the kit but if the kit was actually correct and they did their job properly like the did on the Mig-31, who would even be talking about the issues?

We would be commenting on how many we had additionally ordered not on its pooched rear end.

Instead i bought another 3 Tamiya F-14D’s and hope the GWH kit is as good as their SU-35...

The big issue now is that if its released as is they will still sell quite a few to guys who want a cheaper option to Tamiya in the US.

But like Eduard found out with the 109 debacle the guys who buy multiples who love that aeroplane ie the F-14 your big customer base wont touch it.

I now own 6 Tamiya F-14A’s and 7 F-14D’s and i wont be buying 1 Amk kit if released as is.

The big F-14 lovers wont touch it...that will hurt them massively.

 

 

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2 hours ago, dehowie said:

At the end of the day if the kit was at least close none of the discussion re its back end would be happening no matter who posted the photos.

AMK are obviously upset a competitor posted images of the kit but if the kit was actually correct and they did their job properly like the did on the Mig-31, who would even be talking about the issues?

We would be commenting on how many we had additionally ordered not on its pooched rear end.

Instead i bought another 3 Tamiya F-14D’s and hope the GWH kit is as good as their SU-35...

The big issue now is that if its released as is they will still sell quite a few to guys who want a cheaper option to Tamiya in the US.

But like Eduard found out with the 109 debacle the guys who buy multiples who love that aeroplane ie the F-14 your big customer base wont touch it.

I now own 6 Tamiya F-14A’s and 7 F-14D’s and i wont be buying 1 Amk kit if released as is.

The big F-14 lovers wont touch it...that will hurt them massively.

 

 

wow lots of $$$$ in those Tamiya F-14's

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Posted (edited)
On 3/16/2019 at 5:10 AM, delide said:

Thanks! I think it is too X-)

 

Sorry about the confusion, by "GWH has a thread about their kit" I meant we have a thread about GWH's kit, in my view it's similar regarding the posted pre-release infomation,  yet the reception was different. Official or not, that is hardly going to shield from criticisms, my point is that if you have truly done a great job, then you can remove a lot of ground for criticism. On the other hand if it all went wrong, it's unfair to blame it on the modelers, or even on the competitors, after all it could be a bigger blow if they got the plastic out first.

 

Yes, it's not a easy bussiness to make money at all. I hardly know a thing about the fallout between AMK and Raymond/Kinetic, but that seems to be a pity, as Raymond has been very sucessful at improving the design and quality of his kits, his team is also quite productive, AMK could certainly borrow a page or two from his book. But surely that was never meant to be, especially looking at the 1/48 Magister, Kfir, SUE, Kinetic released them all first I think, the Magister quite a bit earlier,  so I'd guess AMK wanted to do 1 on 1 anyway, unfortunately there is not going to be 2 winners.

Well, it come to my name on it so I just put my 2 cents here.

 

During their hottest Mig-31 release, the supply was not reliable (something they said we could offer but it does not) and seems some hidden agenda was behind AMK and their distributor in HK, for the Mig-31 instance, we have to offer 200+ Su-33 to retain LuckyModel long established goodwill. Therefore, after consideration, we decide to depart from AMK and their distributor supply.

 

If we don't sell the item, we could lose some sales and profit. But working with the hyper-promoted, uncertain supply, it is better for us step back and let other company to offer the brand. 

 

As of now, seems my decision to drop out the brand does more good than harm for us, as we don't have to adjust the delivery time again and again and spending endless hours to reply the customer for something we are not sure. 

 

We are still helping some 'startup' brand like Bombcat to move their way up to the road, but it will totally depends on the solid information and activities. The coming IL-28 from Bombcat is another example of incubation program with our direct support and help. We make sure it reach the market on a reasonable time frame. 

 

This is not the first time we deal with this, if anyone "old" enough to learn the F-16 from Kinetic (where we still don't own it) back in 2007/8, LuckyModel list the pre-order for 6 months and then we announce the recall preorder program and the customer were well informed of refund or retain the pre-order. Finally, the kit release in 2008 Oct/Nov timeframe which we expected the release in April 2008. 

 

In my book, 3 words are essential : Honest, Integrity and Trust. 

Edited by Raymond Chung

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2 hours ago, Raymond Chung said:

In my book, 3 words are essential : Honest, Integrity and Trust.

 

:clap2:Well said Raymond. An interesting peek into what goes on behind the scenes.

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"The big F-14 lovers wont touch it...that will hurt them massively."

 

Surely, sales will depend on the quality (or otherwise) of the kit once it is actually released, rather than on the thousands of comments made before that date........... 

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On 3/14/2019 at 10:46 PM, Mstor said:

 

Which thread is that? I don't remember there being a thread here about the GWH Su-35 started by any official representative of GWH. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

Would like to clear one point here.

 

I have to state: I am not an official representative of G.W.H

 

My work is completely freelance for many different companies all around the world, in some cases they are competitors, but this does not affect my work in any way. A 100% discretion is kept all the way through the projects (this is rule Number One for me!!!), any information is released only and when the producer company gives permission for it! People do ask me what is in the making, and they are very angry with me in many cases that I don’t reveal the current work but at the same time they know that any project I do for them would be kept under similar lock and key!  

 

This post by me is only connected to this discussion on AMK F-14 through the suggestion above.

 

Together with Haneto we were the two persons behind the G.W.H Su-35S kit development / research / design. There was simply no point in opening a new topic on ARC as there was already one. Great Wall Hobbies did not have its own topic, there was no point in having one, we were doing all the communication for the company from the moment G.W.H given the green light to do so. All the images were of course provided by G.W.H  HQ or from test examples that I had to show what can be expected by modellers when the kit is released. In a way it was the official G.W.H topic while from another point of view it was not officially started by G.W.H

 

I wish luck to AMK with this project and believe that a choice for modellers on the market is very important! So there is plenty of space left on the shelfs beside the Tamiya, Hasegawa . . . F-14 box for other manufacturers and everyone can make up their own mind which one they would like to buy.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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11 hours ago, Raymond Chung said:

 In my book, 3 words are essential : Honest, Integrity and Trust. 

 

Amen to that.

 

Now...back to unfollow.......

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On 3/12/2019 at 3:58 AM, Tapchan said:

Seeing this mass urge for detailed wings I bet the GWH will try to please the audience too.

 

There is already two kits with full flaps and slat detail available happy to donate wings to a Tamiya kit.

The HB kit wings have scribing very close to Tamiya quality and they fit....

The HB kit is from a shape view still a nice F-14 especially compared to the photos of AMK’s current version.

A Tamiya HB kit wing swap is easily achievable ending with two very similar F-14’s in terms of scribing quality and the shape of both certainly dont have the issues that may or may not effect the final AmK kit.

I still doubt there scribing quality has improved that much over the Mig-31 leading to any part swapping as a mismatch when or if you try to swap them with a Tamiya kit.

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