AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

[nzsabredogfan]

I am over the AMK Tomcat. Just ask HobbyEasy if I can get a shop credit. Really have enough Tamiya/Hasegawa ones in stash, but if it turns out to be ok  once released, may reorder one in future. I did like some of their earlier kits.

 

Cheers Steve

[Zactoman]

7 minutes ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:

Like 100% true believers?

[habu2]

30 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

 

 

If I squint my eyes really hard ... it looks like a Tomcat to me. 

 

😎

 

[madmanrick]

Naah the hips are too fat.

[Darren Roberts]

13 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:

In all seriousness...

Are there any legit AMK supporters/defenders anymore?

Like 100% true believers? 

 

I wouldn't call myself a defender, but neither am I going to bash them. If they release the Tomcat, I'll get it. It looks decent even with the problems. If it never gets released, then so be it. 

[ya-gabor]

How do you define a good kit? What are acceptable mistakes? What is a brake point in getting or not getting a kit?

 

A quite note (and maybe a parallel): I have been doing for the past few weeks the brand new Eduard MiG-21 bis kit which everyone praised at the beginning of the decade as a perfect representation of the Fishbed. I am not speaking of the nose issue, back in 2011 Mr Sulc asked me to give him a list of problems which should be corrected for future releases. I did for him a several page list of things to do. In the past years put both the MF and bis kit aside (waiting for a good opportunity), but now with that Hungarian marking I have to do it (if for nothing else just to see what I have designed for them on that decal).

 

I can safely say now that about 40 % of the original kit remains untouched, (forget the nose) mostly wrong panels, wrong measurements, wrong shape items, lack of detail, wrong details . . .    In many cases they simply assumed that everything is symmetrical on left and right while on the real aircraft they are not. And made the design as simple as possible with too many compromises (be it technological or financial). This is not solely about the 21 bis version but about MF, SMT and all the others too. Now the sad thing is that the same silly mistakes were repeated 2 years ago on the 72nd scale version even that they were told of the problems and had plenty of time (how many years it is since 2011 to 2018??) to correct the design on the 72nd. In the end it is a straight downscale of the 48th kit. :((

 

 

SO how do you define a good kit? How responsible are manufacturers in listening to opinions, what do they do and what not even if told? Will we buy the kit? and make do with problems be they minor or bigger?

 

Best regards

Gabor  

[ya-gabor]

29 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

It is really personal. Isn't it?

 

It was a fun week to be and to see Tomcats in operation (real war operation) out in the Indian ocean on board JFK. But from this I am not an expert on the F-14 even though I like it very much.

 

But with the Fishbed I think I know most if not all inches of it and can show with hard photo evidence what I have corrected and why on those 60% of the kit. Sure it is a personal thing just as for similar Tomcat experts who knows well what they are talking about.

 

But the point was not about this. Where do you draw the line in accepting mistakes of a kit?

 

Best regards

Gabor  

P.s. Glad you like the GWH Su-35 kit. It was just as much fun researching and desinging it as experiencing a take off from JFK! 

[Raptor01]

Just release it “ They will come” 🤣

 

John

[Laurent]

33 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

Where do you draw the line in accepting mistakes of a kit?

Simple. It depends on each individual's knowledge on the subject.

[Mstor]

I define what is acceptable as far as accuracy by what else is available and how accurate any other kits are in comparison. If I have the choice of the Tamiya, soon the GWH (which is an unknown at this time) and the AMK kit, it will come down to which is the more accurate representation. After that I look at what features the kit offers. The AMK (and I would hope the GWH) offer dirty wings, something I like. I have a Tamiya F-14A which I bought the KASL wing set for. Certainly, AMK's wings would probably be much easier to deal with than the resin KASL ones. Same for the GWH I would think.

So, when it comes down to it, when the GWH D kit is released I will compare it to the AMK (if it is ever released) and Tamiya kits and decide which gives me the most accuracy with the features I want (even if they need to be available aftermarket) and make a decision. Needless to say, I will wait until the GWH kit is released. If it is near, as, or more accurate than the Tamiya kit, I will probably get it, even if the AMK kit hasn't been released yet. Based on AMK's history, I have little confidence at this point that their product will live up to their hype.

[Mr Matt Foley]

4 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

How do you define a good kit? What are acceptable mistakes? What is a brake point in getting or not getting a kit?

 

I'll wait until you guys buy it, assess it and then make my decision to spend my money on it. 😉

[nzsabredogfan]

My thanks to HobbyEasy team for arranging a shop credit. With good people like them I will pre order kits in future. Will be using the shop credit towards a Kittyhawk UH-1N  which has its own problems, and most likely will cause some more along the build by myself. Why buy it and give up on the AMK Tomcat, because it’s available, appears to be the best version out at this stage, and it has some cool looking paint jobs over service life. Above all I am a plasticholic with too many unmade/part finished kits. 

 

Modelling has come along way since the late 70s, only wish I could complete them as quick and be as happy with the result now of those less than accurate kits like the Matchbox Tomcat.

 

Have a great day cheers Steve from NZ

[dehowie]

6 hours ago, Mr Matt Foley said:

 

I'll wait until you guys buy it, assess it and then make my decision to spend my money on it. 😉

 

Personally experts are the last people i listen to now..i still listen but with three grains of salt and a dose of reality.

Why?

Well take a look at whats already happening with the Eduard P-51 and this is nothing to do with what was a botched kit the first release of the 109G.

Its over reaction caused by being to close to a subject.

 Example.

So a panel of experts self appointed who love the Fairy Dingbat Mk7 to bits, have spent there lives collecting information etc, know every block and factory variance take a look at the kit.

So when the ultimate or maybe even the first Hasetamiduard version is released they buy it with glee!

There joy immediately turns to horror when they find the rpm indicator and manifold pressure gauges are reversed, the pilots joystick has the pickle misplaced and the main wheels have Michelin badges instead of goodyear.

To add insult to injury the guncamera port is misplaced by 3 inches on the wing leading edge and is square instead of round. 

Oh the horror!

To many these would be insignificant errors meaning nothing to 98.9% of the community.

However the Dingbats take it upon themselves to launch a campaign across forums to highlight the stupidly poor research and glaring mistakes by Hasetamiduard.

These errors are amplified page after page with vitriol by the Dingbat experts driven by disappointment  to bring a campaign of hate because there most famous beautiful aircraft, the love of their lives has been slighted by an incompetent bunch of amatuers parading as a model company.

Now this has happened here and elsewhere that insignificant errors which have no visual impact on the “look” of a kit compared to the prototype have been shredded.

So to me I temper what experts say, I use your own eyes to asses exactly how you think the kit looks and decide from there. Use the experts opinions to educate yourself from their wonderful knowledge on the finer points or like those experts you will never finish a kit. 

Gross errors are one thing which the Mk1 eyeball can spot at 20 paces ie Eduard 109G, AMK F-14 aft fuselage etc but listening to experts is rife with issues as you may find there hyper realistic goals will kill much of your enjoyment of the hobby.

 

[Neo]

I dont care anymore i just want my kit

[DONG]

1 hour ago, dehowie said:

 

Personally experts are the last people i listen to now..i still listen but with three grains of salt and a dose of reality.

Why?

Well take a look at whats already happening with the Eduard P-51 and this is nothing to do with what was a botched kit the first release of the 109G.

Its over reaction caused by being to close to a subject.

 Example.

So a panel of experts self appointed who love the Fairy Dingbat Mk7 to bits, have spent there lives collecting information etc, know every block and factory variance take a look at the kit.

So when the ultimate or maybe even the first Hasetamiduard version is released they buy it with glee!

There joy immediately turns to horror when they find the rpm indicator and manifold pressure gauges are reversed, the pilots joystick has the pickle misplaced and the main wheels have Michelin badges instead of goodyear.

To add insult to injury the guncamera port is misplaced by 3 inches on the wing leading edge and is square instead of round. 

Oh the horror!

To many these would be insignificant errors meaning nothing to 98.9% of the community.

However the Dingbats take it upon themselves to launch a campaign across forums to highlight the stupidly poor research and glaring mistakes by Hasetamiduard.

These errors are amplified page after page with vitriol by the Dingbat experts driven by disappointment  to bring a campaign of hate because there most famous beautiful aircraft, the love of their lives has been slighted by an incompetent bunch of amatuers parading as a model company.

Now this has happened here and elsewhere that insignificant errors which have no visual impact on the “look” of a kit compared to the prototype have been shredded.

So to me I temper what experts say, I use your own eyes to asses exactly how you think the kit looks and decide from there. Use the experts opinions to educate yourself from their wonderful knowledge on the finer points or like those experts you will never finish a kit. 

Gross errors are one thing which the Mk1 eyeball can spot at 20 paces ie Eduard 109G, AMK F-14 aft fuselage etc but listening to experts is rife with issues as you may find there hyper realistic goals will kill much of your enjoyment of the hobby.

 

 

Well said and pretty much true, we seem to base our kit buying on what the so called experts say when we should just buy what we like. I buy what I like and base it on an honest review of the kit for fit, ease of build etc not on whether it's 2mm short in lenght or span. I like the F-4 and every kit manufacturer has made at least one error big or small.

 

Now back to AMK they're biggest mistake was they should've said nothing and just released the kit now it's just a big PR s#$tstorm because it's been 4 years and nothing. If they had just released the kit they're stock as a kit maker wouldn't have taken a beating for 192+ pages.

 

This is just my opinion and thoughts I have no need for this kit (have 6 Tamiya) just an observation on 192+ pages of other opinions.

 

Don

 

[niart17]

10 hours ago, dehowie said:

 

Personally experts are the last people i listen to now..i still listen but with three grains of salt and a dose of reality.

Why?

Well take a look at whats already happening with the Eduard P-51 and this is nothing to do with what was a botched kit the first release of the 109G.

Its over reaction caused by being to close to a subject.

 Example.

So a panel of experts self appointed who love the Fairy Dingbat Mk7 to bits, have spent there lives collecting information etc, know every block and factory variance take a look at the kit.

So when the ultimate or maybe even the first Hasetamiduard version is released they buy it with glee!

There joy immediately turns to horror when they find the rpm indicator and manifold pressure gauges are reversed, the pilots joystick has the pickle misplaced and the main wheels have Michelin badges instead of goodyear.

To add insult to injury the guncamera port is misplaced by 3 inches on the wing leading edge and is square instead of round. 

Oh the horror!

To many these would be insignificant errors meaning nothing to 98.9% of the community.

However the Dingbats take it upon themselves to launch a campaign across forums to highlight the stupidly poor research and glaring mistakes by Hasetamiduard.

These errors are amplified page after page with vitriol by the Dingbat experts driven by disappointment  to bring a campaign of hate because there most famous beautiful aircraft, the love of their lives has been slighted by an incompetent bunch of amatuers parading as a model company.

Now this has happened here and elsewhere that insignificant errors which have no visual impact on the “look” of a kit compared to the prototype have been shredded.

So to me I temper what experts say, I use your own eyes to asses exactly how you think the kit looks and decide from there. Use the experts opinions to educate yourself from their wonderful knowledge on the finer points or like those experts you will never finish a kit. 

Gross errors are one thing which the Mk1 eyeball can spot at 20 paces ie Eduard 109G, AMK F-14 aft fuselage etc but listening to experts is rife with issues as you may find there hyper realistic goals will kill much of your enjoyment of the hobby.

 

Understand what you're saying, BUT just keep in mind, those "dingbat" experts are usually pretty close to being right. And even though I don't fall into the 1.1% that you mention of people that sweat the pickle on the control dumaflappie, there are people that do. So I think maybe welcoming their observations and perhaps easing up a bit on the elementary school playground dingbat name calling might be in order. You can still choose to follow and/or ignore their information as you see fit. And as has been said over and over and over again, this hobby has many different facets and they are ALL equally valuable. It ranges from those that slap glue on and paint with a roller to get a model or toy they want all the way to the pickle switch experts and even people that do nothing but collect boxes that happen to have plastic parts inside. I just wish there were a lot more post that read like "thanks for the information. Personally I don't find that level of detail important but I appreciate you pointing it out" and much less that read like "quit your bellyaching and build the stupid model. You're sucking the joy out of modeling". To those "dingbats" their joy IS finding exactly where the joystick pickle switch is. I find their level of passion quite interesting and very useful. I might not share in their disappointment at times. But I do relish in their corrections often. Especially when you have people like Zasctoman who takes that knowledge and puts forth action to create beautiful correction parts. That is afterall what the hobby is, right? At least to some, it's more about fellowship with like-minded people who share a joy of a hobby.

Edited August 3, 2019 by niart17

[Mr Matt Foley]

10 hours ago, dehowie said:

So to me I temper what experts say, I use your own eyes to asses exactly how you think the kit looks and decide from there. Use the experts opinions to educate yourself from their wonderful knowledge on the finer points or like those experts you will never finish a kit. 

Gross errors are one thing which the Mk1 eyeball can spot at 20 paces ie Eduard 109G, AMK F-14 aft fuselage etc but listening to experts is rife with issues as you may find there hyper realistic goals will kill much of your enjoyment of the hobby.

 

 

I was actually being sarcastic, the shape is most important thing to me. Even then, I'm not much of a Tomcat fan and I still have a Tamiya F-14D sitting on my shelf beckoning my attention. Great points Dehowie, I appreciate and agree with much of your perspective.

[Tapchan]

On 8/2/2019 at 3:36 PM, ya-gabor said:

How do you define a good kit? What are acceptable mistakes? What is a brake point in getting or not getting a kit?

 

3. There are actually many factors. If I look at the model shape and it seem odd to me (just like AMK F-14 rear fuselage) then it's not ok. If it fits just like Revell's 32nd Super Hornet then it's also not ok. Wrong/misplaced panel lines? Well, if they really hurt my sense of correctness then I believe proper painting and wash (unpronouncing panel lines) may really do the job, thus no need to scratch the kit off of wanted list. I never mean to join any competitions with my models and the only thing that can hurt my eyes from shelf-distance are visibly wrong shapes. Plus the cost and alternatives - if you want F-4 then you have Italeri, Hasegawa, Academy and ZM. If you want F-14 then you can choose among Italeri, Academy, Hasegawa, HB, Tamiya, GWH(soon) and AMK(soon™). But when you go for SU-24 or MiG-23 then you may have limited choices. If the cost of kit is high and shapes are visibly incorrect then i'll search for alternatives. If GWH provide same level of detail as AMK but with less shape issues then i'll spare some €€ extra to get this better kit. 

 

2. As mentioned above - panel lines, especially minor ones. Or rivets on HB's F-14/F-18 wings (i can get rid of them easily). Wrong shape of HB's F-14 intakes (if somebody wouldn't give me a link with the description of a problem I'd never know of it's existence). Again the answer depends on kit alternatives and pricing. Also small fitting issues are acceptable, if they don't require more tools and effort than some sanding or a bit of styrene/putty.

 

1. Good kit... good kit is the one having little to no fitting issues and correct overall shape. Good kit offers me a good choice in undercarriage and decals thus does not require much aftermarket. Good kit provides me seated pilot/s and well fitting panels if I'd like to make it in-flight. And of course provides basic PE parts.

In other words good kit is the one after building which (and looking at) I say "it was a pleasure to build and totally worth it's price" while not thinking "i wish not to deal with these intakes area ever again".

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Tapchan

[Don]

There is no "one size fits all" definition as far as I'm concerned. Its completely and totally subjective to the individual modeler as to what constitutes a "good kit" because we all have different metrics for "good" and we all get enjoyment in this hobby in different ways. To each their own...there's  room for all.

 

As far as AMK goes, just release the bloody thing already and be done with it. If there are indeed glaring inaccuracies in the kit then AMK can take their lumps just like any other manufacturer does and move on. Or go ahead and scrap the whole project if criticism and negative reviews is to much to handle. Honestly its long past getting off the pot at this stage.

 

Happy modeling all!

[bushande]

On 8/3/2019 at 1:25 PM, niart17 said:

Understand what you're saying, BUT just keep in mind, those "dingbat" experts are usually pretty close to being right. And even though I don't fall into the 1.1% that you mention of people that sweat the pickle on the control dumaflappie, there are people that do. So I think maybe welcoming their observations and perhaps easing up a bit on the elementary school playground dingbat name calling might be in order. You can still choose to follow and/or ignore their information as you see fit. And as has been said over and over and over again, this hobby has many different facets and they are ALL equally valuable. It ranges from those that slap glue on and paint with a roller to get a model or toy they want all the way to the pickle switch experts and even people that do nothing but collect boxes that happen to have plastic parts inside. I just wish there were a lot more post that read like "thanks for the information. Personally I don't find that level of detail important but I appreciate you pointing it out" and much less that read like "quit your bellyaching and build the stupid model. You're sucking the joy out of modeling". To those "dingbats" their joy IS finding exactly where the joystick pickle switch is. I find their level of passion quite interesting and very useful. I might not share in their disappointment at times. But I do relish in their corrections often. Especially when you have people like Zasctoman who takes that knowledge and puts forth action to create beautiful correction parts. That is afterall what the hobby is, right? At least to some, it's more about fellowship with like-minded people who share a joy of a hobby.

Where's the darned like button when you need it.

Exactly THAT! Every word!

[Dave Roof]

Posted on Fishbone's Facebook page..........

 

[habu2]

What are “RACCONS” ???

 

[Mr Matt Foley]

17 minutes ago, habu2 said:

What are “RACCONS” ???

 

 

Ha! My thoughts exactly....But...will they have them in hand? (The kit.....not "Raccons")

[Don]

A rather prominent spelling error in the AMK poster advertising their F-14D...

 

...come on you have to admit that's kind of funny. Chuckle worthy at least. Its like they just can't catch a break with this one.

 

Three Raccoons Modeling  FB page for anyone interested:

 

https://www.facebook.com/raccoon.squadron/

[madmanrick]

So the operative question is what exactly are they going to build during this "build-off", pre-production "kits," the production kit (released, finally!) or something other?