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AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

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15 minutes ago, niart17 said:

And I'm not even going to mention the fact that the spine looks like it stops waaay too short and meets the top of the tail section at about the point where the raised section for the wing fold panel lines converge instead of far behind it like the real plane.

Bill

 

Never noticed that. but there it is

 

15 minutes ago, niart17 said:

 Because you know, that IS fun to me. Not because of ego or malice, but because I enjoy studying these things.

Bill

 

I totally agree Bill. I think zactoman and myself are of the same mindset. I know the shape is off and would like to discover how. it's not about slandering AMK.

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39 minutes ago, niart17 said:

And I'm not even going to mention the fact that the spine looks like it stops waaay too short and meets the top of the tail section at about the point where the raised section for the wing fold panel lines converge instead of far behind it like the real plane. Ooops...I guess I will mention that. Might even throw up a PS image just for fun. Because you know, that IS fun to me. Not because of ego or malice, but because I enjoy studying these things.

 

But I will also say that slide molded nose process is very interesting. I love seeing the machines work like that. I'd love to see some more of the molding of this kit because there is a lot of interesting mold concepts going on there.

 

Bill

 

Good catch.

A nearly one inch misplacement.

 

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1 hour ago, niart17 said:

Exactly! IF there are no shape issues (still a big if) on the finished product that were there from the original CAD and test shots, I wonder if you guys who keep downing the line drawers will continue that or perhaps you might say "hey guys, thanks for HELPING AMK put out a great more accurate model that I too can enjoy". Time will only tell. But I'd say that AMK might have one of the largest on-line community of QC and research departments ever. It would be really wonderful if they'd realize that and perhaps be happy the line drawers are there. Or I guess you could name call. That might work too I suppose.

 

Haha, I guess that will never happen, I see even more downing coming IF no issue was to be found 😱  But it doesn't matter, I for one will continue to draw colorful lines as I see fit. 😀

 

I'd admit that despite the size, we/online community can not beat professional research though, like Grumman's support in Tamiya case, or on site research, I think if any manufactorer's standard is to produce the best kits ever, then they need to have a professional approach to research, being a professional/best tool maker is great but not enough.

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2 hours ago, niart17 said:

And I'm not even going to mention the fact that the spine looks like it stops waaay too short and meets the top of the tail section at about the point where the raised section for the wing fold panel lines converge instead of far behind it like the real plane. Ooops...I guess I will mention that. Might even throw up a PS image just for fun. Because you know, that IS fun to me. Not because of ego or malice, but because I enjoy studying these things.

 

But I will also say that slide molded nose process is very interesting. I love seeing the machines work like that. I'd love to see some more of the molding of this kit because there is a lot of interesting mold concepts going on there.

 

Bill

 

Bill, could you post some pics that illustrate this? For some reason I'm not seeing it. :hmmm:

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Posted (edited)

Seriously?  you experts just "discovered" something new?

 

Look at all of the pics of the plastic, don't cherry pick.  Better yet just wait for the plastic.  The spine is fine and it extends past the wing plate area, look at the bare plastic photos as the painted versions hide the curvature. 

 

giphy.gif

 

Edited by zerosystem

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2 minutes ago, zerosystem said:

Seriously?  you experts just "discovered" something new?

 

Look at all of the pics of the plastic, don't cherry pick.  Better yet just wait for the plastic.  The spine is fine and it extends past the wing plate area, look at the bare plastic photos as the painted versions hide the curvature. 

 

 

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/12UMa0PQ2pL8LC" width="480" height="217" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/axe-12UMa0PQ2pL8LC">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

No reason to jump on him. If he sees an issue, let him present evidence. He could be in error or not. That's why I asked for photos (btw, I'm not seeing the photo you posted).

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12 minutes ago, Mstor said:

 

Bill, could you post some pics that illustrate this? For some reason I'm not seeing it. :hmmm:

 

Take a look at the spine and where it ends.

Take as a reference both inclined lines. 

 

68770663_1316972091800948_63628678027553

 

68561582_1311060892392068_29762440678992

 

Now look at a real tomcat:

 

48552332752_9500da793a_o.jpg

 

direct-overhead-view-of-an-f-14b-tomcat-

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I think it is the lighting on the top view pic you show. The one above that shows the spine of the Tamiya kit on top with the spine of the AMK on not really visible underneath it. Here is a better view of the AMK spine. You can see that it extends further.

53714774_10218765655161145_8107035475992117248_n.jpg.ee1e018925a9d228dd00361e7ab4f8c7.jpg

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Mstor has it right,

 

There are some other images on the AMK fan page on Facebook that better illustrate it.  The spine on the real thing (in most photos) stops just ahead of the trailing edge of the inner strakes, both the AMK and Tamiya kits show similar ending locations. 

imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-OfzExI5S6rhjKe.jpg.12c433189ad574b8ed055a07c7187baa.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Look page 183, there are numerous pics in every angle of a built kit.

It's not the lighting.

 

Side:65260444_2366035280123333_79271383656174

 

Top

 

65225795_2366035423456652_45098607190254

 

64923651_2366035606789967_84428511047812

 

65157725_2366035736789954_64618919803213

 

65237115_2366035860123275_53813040085163

 

65629270_2366036006789927_50914082502056

 

62235357_2366036206789907_41347917778004

 

Last pic shows it the most.

Edited by shion
pics provided

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Posted (edited)

well, I've spotted that before, and It was my greater concern that "the curve". It really look on some pictures that it isn't there, but it is, although it looks to be too shallow, will be interesting to see it in person

 

69024558_10220021979048457_6002784092620

 

68471015_215726232725355_367940839983913

Edited by skuki

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And yet, the last photo of the real plane posted by Shion above shows the spine go beyond the trailing edge. It's not a huge deal and it's only short by a bit. BUT it is off a little. You can see where the shadow actually curves around the curve on the very back of the spine. It's further back. It's not a slam against a company so there's no reason to see it as such. Just a casual observation. And no, I'm NOT an F-14 expert but I can look at a photo and tell when two things are the same. Bash away at me all you need to. I'm good with that or whatever.

 

Bill

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And as far as Tamiya showing that area the same? That's all fine. But I'm not intending to buy a scale model of another scale model. It's a scale model of an actual plane. Comparing it to Tamiya to determine accuracy is kind of pointless isn't it? Just sayin'

 

BTW, I'm not saying that I am definitely right. Only that it's how it appears to me. Take it for what it's worth.

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Posted (edited)

 

again various photos, dots and lines.... we need to get the kit to conclude something

 

by looking at the picture from previous post it is total fail, and from this pictures it look like it is spot on

 

68862850_10220005374393351_8877426036208

 

68996904_10220005379073468_6909502721607

Edited by skuki

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Regarding the ongoing debate...:bandhead2:

 

Niart has already pretty much nailed it here. Research and analysis can be a fun hobby in itself.

 

I've learned a lot about the Tomcat both from other members doing their analysis and from doing my own analysis. My Tomcat photo reference library has gone from a couple hundred pics, mostly of intakes and fuel tank pylons, to well over a thousand pics covering all areas of the plane.
In essence, I've learned about the Tomcat in part because of this conversation.
That's a good thing isn't it?

 

There are lots of members here that appreciate knowing the issues with kits, so that they can decide to fix them on their builds, so that they can decide to make a purchase, so that they can learn more about the actual aircraft.

 

Some people simply have a harder time seeing shapes and details than others, particularly when they are subtle details. But those subtle details can be the difference between a kit that looks right or one where something just looks off a bit.
This is where comparative photos, red lines and illustrations can really help. Unfortunately making those illustrations and red line comparisons can be very time consuming. Thank you to those who take the time to do them. :cheers:
Also a big thank you to the subject matter experts, ordies, mechanics, pilots, etc, that share their wealth of knowledge with us. :thumbsup:

 

This is a modelling discussion forum where we discuss plastic models and the subject that they are depicting.
Focus on the plastic and not the participants of the discussion.

None of us would prefer an inaccurate kit to a more accurate kit.

 

:cheers:

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Posted (edited)

My only concern is that I have never seen such a long debate before for a model that is still unreleased. Which is making me think that firstly there is a reason for it and secondly that the bad marketing practices of AMK gave space to this happening...

 

I honestly hope that this is a lessons learnt session for them.

 

Finally, for all my rivet counting friends, I am pretty sure that issues can be found with every single model out there. So plenty of space for them to enjoy!

Edited by DIO

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Remember the discussion about both canopies?

 

Single part option:

 

68906352_1316974395134051_41263765109384

 

 

68757162_1316974465134044_72521068253806

 

 

 

 

Both options

 

 

 

69426715_1316974415134049_17345139310801

 

68878245_1316974571800700_48988876210626

 

 

Multipart option showing the problem underlined previously:

 

68815500_1316974378467386_11978030409716

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Great pics. It does also show that the break in angle at the rear of the canopy may be slightly under-defined, but that's pretty minor. (ducking for cover)

 

True, no kit is perfect. And I for one am glad. How much fun would it be to measure a kit and say "Yup, everything is exactly where it is."?

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45 minutes ago, niart17 said:

top view compare 2.jpg

 

It does look like the kit spine goes flat where you have the red line:

51104d58d109b3deb78d5867c1bf6c81800a4c69

 

That panel line should have a very slight curve:

159610_F14_7560606628_zpsldssvzr0.jpg

f-14d_159600_christine_parts_064_of_354_

 

I'd consider this a minor flaw compared to some of the other issues.

I will say this, the areas that don't have problems do look nice.

 

:cheers:

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Posted (edited)

I agree Zacto, there are some really beautiful things happening with this kit. I'm still hoping for a good way of making the frame-to-glass canopy assembly work well. To me if you can pull that off it really would sell that there is an aircraft metal to glass transition there. Something that even the best painting can't quite get the look of. I'm curious, is there a weather stripping material that's visible on some F-14's  that one could paint the very edge of the glass to represent and it take away that "thick clear edge" effect? I'm Jonesing to play with that.

Edited by niart17

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1 hour ago, shion said:

Look page 183, there are numerous pics in every angle of a built kit.

It's not the lighting.

 

Side:65260444_2366035280123333_79271383656174

 

Top

 

65225795_2366035423456652_45098607190254

 

64923651_2366035606789967_84428511047812

 

65157725_2366035736789954_64618919803213

 

65237115_2366035860123275_53813040085163

 

65629270_2366036006789927_50914082502056

 

62235357_2366036206789907_41347917778004

 

Last pic shows it the most.

 

 

You are not correct. Spine continues further down than you "see".

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This is NOT a great pic to use and this could be completely imagined...BUT to me, in some pics it appears that the spine may actually go past that panel line and there is a slightly raised area aft of it that is curved. That's why the panel line may appear curved. Again, this is VERY minor, but I would be curious to compare to a real plane.

 

 

spine closeup.jpg

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34 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

You are not correct. Spine continues further down than you "see".

Prove it.

 

2 minutes ago, niart17 said:

This is NOT a great pic to use and this could be completely imagined...BUT to me, in some pics it appears that the spine may actually go past that panel line and there is a slightly raised area aft of it that is curved. That's why the panel line may appear curved. Again, this is VERY minor, but I would be curious to compare to a real plane.

 

 

We need to find pics of the real A/C showing how the transition spine/fuselage is, it's tricky because we need the good angle between  A/C fuselage and the sun/

 

Maybe this pic describes very well the transition (high res and cliquable as always):

 

040506-N-1407C-006.jpg

 

Same here:

 

010401-N-0295M-001.jpg

 

051105-F-5480T-005.jpg

 

051105-F-5480T-008.jpg

 

030529-N-0295M-014.jpg

 

So on the real A/C, the turtleback stay notably curved very far till the red line you drawed.

 

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