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AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

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3 minutes ago, skuki said:

I bet that complainers are drooling over the pictures but don't want anybody to know

 

the kit will be best seller!!!

 

BTW Skuki, I never did get to posting this but your Tamiya F-14 build you have going on in the in progress section is AMAZING! I know you and I have some different opinions about this model etc... but dude, that's awesome what you've got going on there. Keep it up. 

 

Sorry guys, I know it's not the right thread I just had to say that.

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2 minutes ago, niart17 said:

 I know you and I have some different opinions about this model etc...

 

Maybe we don't 😅 I've just said that we can't tell yet, better to wait and then destroy it if it deserves 😆

 

Hey thanks, regarding my build! Not to make it completely offtopic I will repeat here that I need for that build AMK spread WINGS!! AMK included some details on the wing mechanism that are very useful for Kazan wing box detail set, and ofc, I have slats and flaps that will enhance the complexity of all that open panels....
 

I accept offers! 😄

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4 hours ago, bushande said:

Hmmmmm .... it might be the angle (which I rather doubt ...) but if it is not the curve / size of the hips (still think it is that too) that cause the impression of a misshaped rear; in this photo it looks a lot like the angle the rear is falling off from the tail root towards the kink is by way far too steep. Might be the angle of the photo, as said, but at least on this shot it looks far far too steep. If that should really be the case and it should indeed be this "phenomenon" that causes the hips to look too wide then it will be rather hard to do a correction with sole scratchwork - at least for me and my meager abilities. Sanding off too broad hips and flatten them is one thing, correcting a too steep angle ..... oooouuuuch .. I sure hope it is just the optics and the image. I just have to see once the damn bird is on the table.

Yes, it's a cross section issue. I think it's very common, when you try to make a 3D shape just from 3 view drawings. The angle may not be the same but if you look at the slope of that area near the air bag on the real thing, it's clearly designed to fit a thin wing profile of a fighter, when the wing sweeps back. The kit on the other hand, it looks like it's designed to fit the wing of a B-24 or worse, it's a face palm moment for me right there... what was Grumman even thinking! 😤

 

wing.jpg.48ff31070548cf109528db4323f93bc7.jpg

 

 

I kind of envy the guys who can't see the difference or don't mind. But I'm tired to see the argument that no kit is perfect over and over again, if we all make a drawing of ourself, our girl friend/wife or a movie character... none of us will get it perfect either, but I trust that some will come close, some very close, and some will make it looks more like a raw potato, right? Model kits are the similar, they are 3D instead of 2D interpretations of the real thing, while none is perfect, some will be very close to the real thing, from what I've seen, I would not chose AMK but Tamiya to draw a picture for me. Sure, it's not all about the look/shape, model kits have other aspects like engineering or whatever matters to you, so I get it that some will love the kit, but I think equally it shouldn't be that hard to understand that some will like the Tamiya's F-14 better.

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6 minutes ago, delide said:

Yes, it's a cross section issue. I think it's very common, when you try to make a 3D shape just from 3 view drawings. The angle may not be the same but if you look at the slope of that area near the air bag on the real thing, it's clearly designed to fit a thin wing profile of a fighter, when the wing sweeps back. The kit on the other hand, it looks like it's designed to fit the wing of a B-24 or worse, it's a face palm moment for me right there... what was Grumman even thinking! 😤

 

wing.jpg.48ff31070548cf109528db4323f93bc7.jpg

 

 

I kind of envy the guys who can't see the difference or don't mind. But I'm tired to see the argument that no kit is perfect over and over again, if we all make a drawing of ourself, our girl friend/wife or a movie character... none of us will get it perfect either, but I trust that some will come close, some very close, and some will make it looks more like a raw potato, right? Model kits are the similar, they are 3D instead of 2D interpretations of the real thing, while none is perfect, some will be very close to the real thing, from what I've seen, I would not chose AMK but Tamiya to draw a picture for me. Sure, it's not all about the look/shape, model kits have other aspects like engineering or whatever matters to you, so I get it that some will love the kit, but I think equally it shouldn't be that hard to understand that some will like the Tamiya's F-14 better.

 

Just an FYI, the picture of the kit is missing the sealing bag. The gap won't be near that open with the part in place. 

 

It does look like the horizontal stab is a bit too low. On the kit, it lines up with the bottom edge of the fuselage side. On the actual airframe, it's a bit above that. 

 

Edited by Darren Roberts

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6 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

Just an FYI, the picture of the kit is missing the sealing bag. The gap won't be near that open with the part in place. 

No, I am not taking about gaps, I'm talking about the slop at the rear edge of the seal bag, the red lines are not gaps, but my imaginary wing profiles. 

Edited by delide

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8 minutes ago, delide said:

Yes, it's a cross section issue. I think it's very common, when you try to make a 3D shape just from 3 view drawings. The angle may not be the same but if you look at the slope of that area near the air bag on the real thing, it's clearly designed to fit a thin wing profile of a fighter, when the wing sweeps back. The kit on the other hand, it looks like it's designed to fit the wing of a B-24 or worse, it's a face palm moment for me right there... what was Grumman even thinking! 😤

 

wing.jpg.48ff31070548cf109528db4323f93bc7.jpg

 

 

I kind of envy the guys who can't see the difference or don't mind. But I'm tired to see the argument that no kit is perfect over and over again, if we all make a drawing of ourself, our girl friend/wife or a movie character... none of us will get it perfect either, but I trust that some will come close, some very close, and some will make it looks more like a raw potato, right? Model kits are the similar, they are 3D instead of 2D interpretations of the real thing, while none is perfect, some will be very close to the real thing, from what I've seen, I would not chose AMK but Tamiya to draw a picture for me. Sure, it's not all about the look/shape, model kits have other aspects like engineering or whatever matters to you, so I get it that some will love the kit, but I think equally it shouldn't be that hard to understand that some will like the Tamiya's F-14 better.

You deserve this more 🙂

 

 

😛

 

uOUhonN.png

 

 

Seriously dude, please... Not same angle, not same lens/distance, it is even missing *huge* part. Get real. 

 

Pictures I saw last 2 days erased all the question marks in my mind. This kit is looking gorgeous. 

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4 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

You deserve this more 🙂

 

 

😛

 

uOUhonN.png

 

 

Seriously dude, please... Not same angle, not same lens/distance, it is even missing *huge* part. Get real. 

 

Pictures I saw last 2 days erased all the question marks in my mind. This kit is looking gorgeous. 

Nice selection of color, I will use them for my drawings :-) Seriously, you love the kit, I got it long time ago, good for you then. 

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43 minutes ago, Dave Roof said:

 

 

Yeah, I got a good laugh out of that as well. That comparison simply proved either the kit, or the drawings are wrong. One portion of the kit lines up, while another is completely off. Sadly, the guy behind Fishbone didn't do any favors for AMK with that one.

 

All in all though, I think the kit looks pretty good and is proportionately correct.

 

I doubt it is.

 

I will explain.

Yesterday I tried several times to do the same set with the Tamiya and the Hasegawa kits and the 1/48 drawings from Model Art profile N°6 F-14 Tomcat.

This book:

 

modelart_profile-6-f14_boxart_t.jpg

 

I put the fuselage top part (for the HAS kit) and both fuselage top parts (aft and front for the TAM one) precisely on the top drawing and took a look from above to see if profiles match, especially the now famous aft curves.

Both kits match with the drawings.

 

I tried a second experiment, recreate the exact same angle than the photo I post before.

It confirmed what I thought: with this (slight) angle, if drawings and kit part match, it's impossible to see the drawing at the opposite side, because the plastic part hides it.

 

The first thing that struck me seeing this photo was the weird left strake placement, which doesn't match with the perspective. 

That only translates the fact plastic part and drawing don't match.

Second thing that struck me was the fact you can see part of the aera above the wing seals on the right side, which is impossible if drawings and plastic parts match.

If you can see this part of the drawings, it means either the plastic part is too narrow  or the drawings are too wide.

 

Problem is both differences, concern big parts and are in two different axis.

If the kit were longer and wider than drawings, it could possibly be proportionnaly correct.

Here, it seems to be longer in one axis and narrower in another  one, so  the kit has few chances of being proportionnaly correct.

 

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@Terrysumner If it's not too much to ask, would you be able to stick on some vertical zebra stripes from the airbag area towards the back?    Maybe with some cut up strips of tamiya tape or such.  And then take a similar photo?   Just wanted to see the shape better or how difficult it would be to correct.  Thanks!

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1 hour ago, skuki said:

I bet that complainers are drooling over the pictures but don't want anybody to know

 

the kit will be best seller!!!

 


All the pictures absolutely did inspire a sale

My second Tamiya F-14D arrives from SprueBrothers on thursday 

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3 minutes ago, crackerjazz said:

@Terrysumner If it's not too much to ask, would you be able to stick on some vertical zebra stripes from the airbag area towards the back?    Maybe with some cut up strips of tamiya tape or such.  And then take a similar photo?   Just wanted to see the shape better or how difficult it would be to correct.  Thanks!

You gotta be kidding me...

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Oh sorry if it sounded too complex.  Or maybe it is then don't worry.   I was trying to look for it earlier and just found it now -- it's a Zoukei Mura Phantom curvature comparison in a thread and Laurent posted this pic below.  I was just thinking of something similar.

academyF4J.jpg

Edited by crackerjazz

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1 hour ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

Just an FYI, the picture of the kit is missing the sealing bag. The gap won't be near that open with the part in place. 

 

It does look like the horizontal stab is a bit too low. On the kit, it lines up with the bottom edge of the fuselage side. On the actual airframe, it's a bit above that. 

 

I meant in the parked/fully swept position, the slope of that rear edge of the sealing bag doesn't need to be made that steep to accommodate the wing, I also guessed that less slope would be desirable, so that the sealing bag could be blown up less to seal the wing in other forward positions, but that my guess indeed... What might really matter is the shape of that area, I think one could compare the shape(slope at the rear, thickness) of the sealing bags with Tamiya ones, as the slope of sealing bag directly affect the slope of the forward section of the fairings, to some of us it looks too steep and therefore this area looks weird.

 

image00A.jpg

 

I think the horizontal stab should be OK, it seems to be too low, because the stab of the kit is not the same scaled diameter/is thicker than the real one.

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Funny how people can determine the shape of the rear is correct by pictures but those who think the shape is off must wait to have the kit in hand because none of the pictures are of the same angle, lens/distance, etc.

 

Edited by GW8345

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7 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

So you were able to determine from pictures that the shape is correct but others are not able to determine from pictures that the shape maybe off, got it.

 

 

precisely. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

precisely. 

 

 

I'm not basing my conclusion on pictures, I'm basing it on 15 years of working on the actual aircraft.

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I think the weasel crews said it best.

 

Wild_Weasels_patch.jpg

Edited by zerosystem

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Thank you for the pics Terry.

It looks as though they might have the windscreen corners correct but it's hard to tell from the pics of the unpainted plastic. How does it look to you when viewing the actual model?

 

My schedule is pretty busy but I'll try to make some time later to play with my crayons.
I'm seeing multiple small (and some bigger) problems that when combined add up to a goofed up rear end. I think the major problem when viewed from most angles is the entire upper surface between the stab and v-stab is too angled and has the wrong contours which makes that surface appear larger than it should be in most angles (as others have noted). As Delide pointed out, the angle problem is very apparent starting at the bladder intersection (green lines are just approximate):

Bag_edge_1_zpsopnb7ysk.jpg

Bag_edge_2_zpswfsdd35t.jpg

 

As I pointed out here the kit is completely missing the kink at the bladder intersection edge, a feature that is very apparent on Tomcats once you know to look for it.
Unfortunately simply building up the surface to raise the corner will result in other problems, such as the wing colliding with the bladder when swept. Which takes me back to my previous thought that there is some overall geometry problem with the layout and not just a few small problems with the rear section.

 

:cheers:

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Something that looks odd to me is what I'd call a "thumb pinch" just fore of the tail surface pivot that just looks too pronounced. It's possible that's just a surface reflection that makes it look too bold in that last pic, but in most of the other shots it looks like there's a concave surface that's over done. Not sure if I'm explaining that very well.

 

Edit, I believe what I'm seeing is a result of what Zacto is saying (If I understand his post) the angle is too steep so in order to get the transition to the flattened side panel, they had to make a curved dip. It looks more like a smooth transition on the pics of the real plane. That also explains why the vent up close to the tails isn't in the right projected plane. it's angled too much as well. On the real plane it's more "on top" of the surface.

 

Edited by niart17

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2 hours ago, GW8345 said:

I'm not basing my conclusion on pictures, I'm basing it on 15 years of working on the actual aircraft.

Please continue to share your thoughts and opinions with us. Personally I very much appreciate hearing  what folks who have actual hands on experience with the real aircraft have to say. Odds are good if folks like you see something missing or off...then it probably is.

 

Thanks for sharing and happy modeling!

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To end all debate someone please post comparisons to the official Grumman loft line or outer mold line drawings....PLEASE.

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After all that debate and comments that raise the modelers' required abilities to a height of a different dimension, I am expecting to see your models guys.

 

Should be amazing, almost perfect, belonging to another universe 🤣🤣🤣

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9 hours ago, Zactoman said:

 (green lines are just approximate):


Nooooo..... really? not the greeeeens

thank god that the comparison pictures are perfect

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3 minutes ago, ChesshireCat said:

I think it's time to move on to something interesting.

Gary

 

Like X 1000

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