AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

[skuki]

2 hours ago, Tapchan said:

If you are thinking about doing it in starting position then you should add some $$ for pilots which Tamiya includes.

and add to tamiya 50 eur for kasl wings ... also for the very same starting position

Edited September 9, 2019 by skuki

[Tapchan]

If you analyze it closer then you'll see that difference is not only in "1mm" but also in the slope. Meanwhile airbag seem to be pretty similar,  the further part does not contain sharp verge (see how soft the shadow-light transition is on real aircraft. 

[Zactoman]

Direct overlays like this are not necessarily conclusive! However, some assumptions can be made about where further study is needed.
Some conclusions can be made based upon overlays like this and previous observations combined.

 

Some explanation of what I'm showing.
I began with the first F-14D pic, which is unfortunately taken from slightly behind but seems to be roughly mid-fuselage height at eye-level. It is taken at a far enough distance that it can be roughly trusted for the lines drawn (X axis OKish, Y axis likely offset a bit).

To confirm, I placed the second F-14 pic, taken from a similar angle and the lines matched up pretty close. (F-14 pics are from HERE in the "arrival" section)

The kit pictures have been re-sized and rotated to match using the reference points shown with blue circles.
Keep in mind that the kit pics are a completely different focal length and perspective. The kit pic with deflated bags looks closer to level while the full bag pic looks taken from slightly above.
Keep in mind that the kit does not have the intake/engine tunnel parts attached so there is at least a wall thickness of plastic missing from the bottom edge of the kit.

 

 

I don't want to draw many new conclusions from this other than saying it confirms my suspicion that the lower edge of the bag line is at the wrong angle (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/285277-amk-148-f-14/&do=findComment&comment=2949760) and the surface above the stab slopes down too much. I think it pretty clearly shows the the surface under the stab also needs some re-work but fortunately the line of intersection with the intake/engine tunnel part looks good.

 

I do have some areas of concern that need further study. The kit does look top-heavy but his is likely (mostly?) due to focal distance/parallax. At the same time the under-surface looks heavy toward the front yet light towards the rear.

 

I'm hoping to see more pics of the completed kit or better yet a partial completed kit with the stabilizers removed.

 

[Mstor]

Excellent analysis Zactoman. Thanks. Definitely clarifying the issues in this area. I too look forward to more pics and to getting a kit in my own hands to look at with my own eyes.

[Zactoman]

 

9 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

At least we are not discussing the top view anymore. I take it 

😄

I'm still hoping @shion replies to this post with an answer (and measurement).

 

On 9/7/2019 at 3:58 AM, Zactoman said:

But where is the widest point on the rear section of the AMK kit? At the bladder intersection or further behind?

 

It appears that the kit has the widest point just in front of the stab pivot when it should be closer the the bag intersection. It's not much, but combined with the upper surface makes the hips look that much wider.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Zactoman

[B.Sin]

1 hour ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

I like this comparison very much too. Thanks for sharing.

 

And again this shows the differences is around 1mm. Seriously if this 1mm bothers you that much all the power to you. I am definitely not going to dismiss a kit for this "error". The edge is just sharper in the model and hard light is not helping either in case of the model picture. Daylight (diffused light) + lighter gray paint and weathering, it will look pretty good imho. 

 

At least we are not discussing the top view anymore. I take it 😄

 

As I wrote before. I love to see a 3-way comparison once the Great Wall is out. That will be epic. 

 

Right now, I prefer AMK but I think GWH can beat them both. 

Any  idea when GWH will release their kit?

[gb_madcat_sl]

1 hour ago, B.Sin said:

Any  idea when GWH will release their kit?

 

No idea. Not a squeak from them about their 1/48 kit. Maybe @haneto may have a clue?

 

Mark

[haneto]

1 hour ago, gb_madcat_sl said:

 

No idea. Not a squeak from them about their 1/48 kit. Maybe @haneto may have a clue?

 

Mark

Sorry I have no idea since GWH's western aircraft items are out of my design scope.

But I personally do not think it's a good idea to participate in the competition especially other maker's new product is just for sale.

 

Maybe 1-2 years later? who knows.

Let's wait for the announcement in All Japan Model and Hobby Show in Tokyo end of this month.

[Alex Matvey]

8 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

This is *great* comparison. Only one I find here close to "apples vs apples". 

 

If you don't mind could you start both red and blue line at the same height then it will become apparent the "difference" is maybe only 1mm. 

So, what the problem? There is no any assessment if it "good" or "bad". Just fact I noticed.  You like it - you buy it.

[B.Sin]

1 hour ago, haneto said:

Sorry I have no idea since GWH's western aircraft items are out of my design scope.

But I personally do not think it's a good idea to participate in the competition especially other maker's new product is just for sale.

 

Maybe 1-2 years later? who knows.

Let's wait for the announcement in All Japan Model and Hobby Show in Tokyo end of this month.

Thank's Haneto.

[dryguy]

Wow Zactoman that's an excellent analysis! I think the error on the lower surface of the engine side fairing will certainly be less noticeable than the upper surface error. I am hoping that any other errors are at least less visible than than say the Hasegawa kit.

[dehowie]

13 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:

So, in summary

There are shape issues. It may be major to some, inconsequential to others, however the issue is there. 

In a shocking turn of events, it's not a perfect kit, as no kit is. 

However it's not the new-standard for F-14 kits either. 

FWIW it should also be about $25-30 on average cheaper than the Tamiya kit, much like how the Academy F-15 was cheaper than the Hasegawa F-15

If "close enough" is worth the $20-$30 to you then it's close enough

 

 

Well for anyone outside the USA the reverse may be true.

I can buy and have bought over 10 Tamiya F-14’s in Japan for an average price of 5400Yen.

The AMK kit is pre ordering for 6300 Yen after starting a lot higher so 10USD more expensive trying to encourage sales.

AMK will be losing money big time given the Mig-31 in Japan is 9800 Yen.

To pre order an AMK kit to my home address was around 90USD so hugely more expensive and almost identical price to Tamiya.

Price has and always will regional so any conclusions drawn based off the highly favoured US market is on thin ice to start with.

[gb_madcat_sl]

12 minutes ago, dehowie said:

 

Well for anyone outside the USA the reverse may be true.

I can buy and have bought over 10 Tamiya F-14’s in Japan for an average price of 5400Yen.

The AMK kit is pre ordering for 6300 Yen after starting a lot higher so 10USD more expensive trying to encourage sales.

AMK will be losing money big time given the Mig-31 in Japan is 9800 Yen.

To pre order an AMK kit to my home address was around 90USD so hugely more expensive and almost identical price to Tamiya.

Price has and always will regional so any conclusions drawn based off the highly favoured US market is on thin ice to start with.

 

Just to check, are you comparing prices on Japanese websites?

 

Mark

[shion]

6 hours ago, gb_madcat_sl said:

 

No idea. Not a squeak from them about their 1/48 kit. Maybe @haneto may have a clue?

 

Mark

In the last issue of Airfix Model World (oct 2019), it is said  "GWH due for release their 1/48 F-14D later this year".

[ChesshireCat]

13 hours ago, dehowie said:

 

Well for anyone outside the USA the reverse may be true.

I can buy and have bought over 10 Tamiya F-14’s in Japan for an average price of 5400Yen.

The AMK kit is pre ordering for 6300 Yen after starting a lot higher so 10USD more expensive trying to encourage sales.

AMK will be losing money big time given the Mig-31 in Japan is 9800 Yen.

To pre order an AMK kit to my home address was around 90USD so hugely more expensive and almost identical price to Tamiya.

Price has and always will regional so any conclusions drawn based off the highly favoured US market is on thin ice to start with.

Not in my world!!! The other F14 runs $99 around here with no takers. The Mig 31 upgraded kit was $67. 

Gary

[niart17]

6 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

Problem is the attitude. There is a crusade against AMK. I dont like it. No one cares this much for other releases from other companies. The "issue" is really not significant and burying all the PLUSES of the AMK kit. 

With all due respect I disagree. There may be a few here that have a "crusade" against AMK, and I can't speak for them. But not everyone here has some personal vendetta or anything at all but many (most) are simply critiquing a product or a proposed product, which by the way they ASKED and WELCOMED help with in the beginning until they didn't like the advice and suggestions they were getting.

And further more, I suggest maybe you look at some similar threads about some Trumpeter kits, ANY of the P-51 kits and more recently some of the F-4U Corsair and F-4 Phantom models that came out. I'm sure there are others out there too. In those you will find very similar posts with red-line drawings and very honest and sometimes brutal critiques. Some of them have gotten so heated people were banned form the site. And also in those threads you'll see some of the same defenders saying the same "just shut up and be happy we have a new kit and build it" message as they have in this one. This is not a new argument at all. There are MANY MANY threads about the "battle" between "rivet counters" vs "good 'nuffs" and there will always be those conversations. If anything, the attack has been the other way, not the way you've suggested. Yes, there has been some ugly comments about the model and even AMK itself. Most of those toward the company were frustrated customers that placed pre-orders and felt slighted. That kind of response is somewhat expected in this case and I would venture to say has a lot to do with this particular thread being as long and potentially volatile as it is. But it's not a "crusade" against this kit or company that's bringing about the red line drawings. It's simply the assessment of what's been presented.

 

Bill

[Jonathan_Lotton]

50 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

Problem is the attitude. There is a crusade against AMK. I dont like it. No one cares this much for other releases from other companies. The "issue" is really not significant and burying all the PLUSES of the AMK kit. 

The other companies conducted themselves much better in the production of their kits, just saying.

It's simply a lesson to be learned for both AMK in the future and other companies observing this whole fiasco 

[niart17]

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/302382-148-f-4-phantom-best-kits/page/4/

 

Here is a good example of how these conversations COULD go. The thread linked above has just as much, if not more specific and varied talk back and forth about shape issues of various kits. There are even templates cut out and held up on models showing very minute details. And the difference is no one seemed to get bent out of shape and jump on those presenting their findings. That I can see, there wasn't much "shut-up and build it" or "who cares?" kinds of posts. Just simply some dedicated modelers trying to find the best information they could. Isn't that what the forums are for?

[DIO]

2 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

Problem is the attitude. There is a crusade against AMK. I dont like it. No one cares this much for other releases from other companies. The "issue" is really not significant and burying all the PLUSES of the AMK kit. 

 

I agree.

 

If the potential issues were just diagnosed with or without lines, then this would be fine.

 

When people troll, coming back with the same.issues every time that someone posts something positive or just when the discussion appears to be moving on, then one can tell...

 

Of course I am not putting everyone in the same bucket. But for some it is almost obvious that they are having an agenda.

[Keroburner89]

3 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

Not in my world!!! The other F14 runs $99 around here with no takers. The Mig 31 upgraded kit was $67. 

Gary

 

Wow... I nabbed a few of these in AUD at $75/ $52USD.

 

It's about half the price of Tamiya's at RRP here in Australia.

 

3 of the AMK preorders was a no brainer!

[GeneK]

1 hour ago, DIO said:

I agree.

 

Thank goodness I can read your posts to level the playing field ...  somewhat.

 

Gene K

 

 

[IAGeezer]

 Someday we'll all be able to put our arms around our grand-children's shoulders, point to this thread, puff up our chests and say, "Here's where the battle took place, Son, and Grandpa did his part. For you, and future generations!".

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, Keroburner89 said:

 

Wow... I nabbed a few of these in AUD at $75/ $52USD.

 

It's about half the price of Tamiya's at RRP here in Australia.

 

3 of the AMK preorders was a no brainer!

 

Where was this at?

[DONG]

4 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

 

 

Problem is the attitude. There is a crusade against AMK. I dont like it. No one cares this much for other releases from other companies. The "issue" is really not significant and burying all the PLUSES of the AMK kit. 

 

Your not getting the big picture here the reason you don't see 200+ page threads on other companies kits is they don't take 4 years to put out a kit and they don't claim it to be the most accurate kit ever released of a certain subject. When you proclaim your kit to be the most accurate kit ever released of the F-14D  you better be prepared to have it put under a microscope.  The "issue" as you say is significant as it is a very noticable shape error on a very wellknown aircraft and I do agree that it does look like a well molded kit. But there has been a few beautifully molded kits that are still not the best kit in that subject the 1/32 Dragon P-51D comes to mind.

 

AMK can proclaim whatever they want about the kit it's up to us to buy it or not and like Alex said buy it or don't buy it. I for one won't buy  it and not because of anything said in this thread, I just happen to have 5 1/48 Tamiya kits and 2 in 1/32 plus 2 in 1/72 so I'm well stocked.

 

Don

 

 

[dehowie]

18 hours ago, gb_madcat_sl said:

 

Just to check, are you comparing prices on Japanese websites?

 

Mark

 

No im buying kits on the street in Japan.

Americans have a fascination in basing a kits price off what they pay then assume the entire world is the same.

Sorry to my American friends but the axis of our planet does not run through Washington DC.

Hence drawing conclusions about kits success etc based off what they pay is as fraught with error as me saying everyone xan buy Tamiya kits for 5200Yen ie 45-50USD so AMK stand no chance.