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AMK 1/48 F-14!!!

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5 minutes ago, janman said:

 I guess it pretty fair to say now that it really 

  As far as I'm concerned, none of this is a deal breaker! 

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8 hours ago, Zactoman said:
On 11/18/2019 at 10:16 PM, Mstor said:

Lets hope Zactoman can shed some light on the issues there.

As I noted previously (here and pic), the encabulator was replaced with the oscillation overthruster on subsequent models.

 

I had completely forgotten about that. Just goes to show that you can't trust drawings from unknown sources. Of course I believe the oscillation overthruster came in to used on D model and the pic is an early A. So the encabulator would still be correct, just not pertinent to our discussion on the AMK F-14. Why anyone would bring up information not pertinent to the current discussion is beyond me.

Oh, wait... never mind. :whistle:  :doh:

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Back to the serious stuff. Really great examination of the center section of the fuselage Zactoman. I am surprised to see the differences in the thickness of the AMK kit compared to the Tamiya. I am hoping that you have the engine nacelles and the shape issues in the rear on your to do list soon. We've all been expecting a lot from you and I just want you to know I appreciate all the time you're taking to do this analysis.

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I think the differences you have found are not worth all the previous fuss. They are almost non existent to the eye and most probably do not matter for the wider range of modelers.

 

The issues that do matter though are those that have to do with missing details, inconsistent details or differences between mirrored parts of the model.

 

Those are not easy to fix and require skills much above the average: rescribe, but also do it in a way similar to the other side.

 

It would be great if AMK resolved those before reissuing any further copies.

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1 hour ago, Ventris said:

I just saw that seller offered a few more at this price.

If the kit arrives I will keep the decals and sell the plastic crap, if not paypal refund.

 

Yes definitely unbuildable. Throw it out of the window. Just wait for me.

Edited by DIO

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1 hour ago, Ventris said:

I just saw that seller offered a few more at this price.

If the kit arrives I will keep the decals and sell the plastic crap, if not paypal refund.

You just got scammed. Look at the history. And good luck getting the refund. They will have tracking (even tho you will receive an empty box/usb cable) or the box will get rerouted... just buy from a reputable dealer and pay the $55 like everyone else. $20? Too good to be true and it is. 

 

There’s a reason all the listings are below $20. A 1/32 Trumpeter F/A-18F for $19? Yeah, it’s all a scam out of China. 

Edited by Brian P: Fightertown Decals

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While I understand the passion some have for this hobby, and the exacting expectations that come with it, as well as the time taken to come up with the outlines of the fuselage, it just makes me realize why the average Joe looks at us, rolls their eyes, laughs, and calls us all dorks or geeks. We are talking millimeters, if that. Forget the fact that AMK stuck their foot in their mouth by saying this was going to be the best Tomcat ever. Forget about the fact they botched the release of it. Let's rewind and pretend AMK just released this kit without any previous notice. Do you really think there would be this much dissection of the kit? I would imagine that the same thing could be done to the HB, Hasegawa, and Monogram with the same results. If this kit were released with no baggage, the consensus would be it's a very good, detailed kit with some flaws and that the Tamiya kit is still better for overall shape. This thread is beginning to resemble a conversation at a Star Trek convention. 😁 

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1 hour ago, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said:

You just got scammed. Look at the history. And good luck getting the refund. They will have tracking (even tho you will receive an empty box/usb cable) or the box will get rerouted... just buy from a reputable dealer and pay the $55 like everyone else. $20? Too good to be true and it is. 

 

There’s a reason all the listings are below $20. A 1/32 Trumpeter F/A-18F for $19? Yeah, it’s all a scam out of China. 

 

If you check feedback history, you'll notice this seller used to offer just misc household items/toys, not models. He has recently sold just one model, now he offers only android car audio and models, almost everything under $20. Whoever believes it... he should blame himself.

 

1 minute ago, Darren Roberts said:

While I understand the passion some have for this hobby, and the exacting expectations that come with it, as well as the time taken to come up with the outlines of the fuselage, it just makes me realize why the average Joe looks at us, rolls their eyes, laughs, and calls us all dorks or geeks. We are talking millimeters, if that. Forget the fact that AMK stuck their foot in their mouth by saying this was going to be the best Tomcat ever. Forget about the fact they botched the release of it. Let's rewind and pretend AMK just released this kit without any previous notice. Do you really think there would be this much dissection of the kit? I would imagine that the same thing could be done to the HB, Hasegawa, and Monogram with the same results. If this kit were released with no baggage, the consensus would be it's a very good, detailed kit with some flaws and that the Tamiya kit is still better for overall shape. This thread is beginning to resemble a conversation at a Star Trek convention. 😁 

 

This reminds me some twitter comment "imagine waiting nine months to give birth and it's you". Imagine waiting 3 years for Tamiya buster and it turns out to be nowhere near. 

Edited by Tapchan

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1 hour ago, Tapchan said:

 

If you check feedback history, you'll notice this seller used to offer just misc household items/toys, not models. He has recently sold just one model, now he offers only android car audio and models, almost everything under $20. Whoever believes it... he should blame himself.

 

 

This reminds me some twitter comment "imagine waiting nine months to give birth and it's you". Imagine waiting 3 years for Tamiya buster and it turns out to be nowhere near. 

 

AMK is not perfect but in my eyes it is equivalent to Tamiya and when it comes to details at certain areas (landing gears, wings just to mention two) is even better.

 

If I could afford it would much like to combine those two kits in a perfect Tomcat!!!

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1 hour ago, Darren Roberts said:

 the average Joe 

 

Being average is not something to excel at. Some of us strive to be an Excellent Joe. :thumbsup:

 

Would you want your Neurosurgeon to just be average? How about the movie you spend over $20 on when you go to the movie theater?

 

Having a model scrutinized in no way shape or form hurts the plastic modeling business. In fact there are some manufacturers that take constructive criticism to heart and improve their products: improved accuracy, better cockpit detailing, included aftermarket and masks in the box.

 

Over the years the Monogram, Hasegawa, and HB F-14's have been scrutinized. AMK saw an opportunity, but failed to live up to it's promise after half a decade of trying. In the meantime Tamiya seize the opportunity and now Great Wall sees an opening to corner part of the 1/48 F-14 market. The envelope is pushed because of nerdz.

 

The average Joe benefits from the "nerds".

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13 hours ago, Zactoman said:

 

Compare to the Tamiya kit which has gentle curves and a convex profile.

Curved_convex_zps9ykwmlf0.jpg

 

 

What I find interesting is that this convex curve exists on the real F-14 Tomcat. Why is it there? Why make this engineering choice after studying all the wind tunnel data? How does the air flow over this area at different speeds?

 

These questions are beyond the scope of looking at the shapes of plastic models. Still . . . what a wonder filled and fascinating airplane.

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1 hour ago, masanissa said:

 

Being average is not something to excel at. Some of us strive to be an Excellent Joe. :thumbsup:

 

Would you want your Neurosurgeon to just be average? How about the movie you spend over $20 on when you go to the movie theater?

 

Having a model scrutinized in no way shape or form hurts the plastic modeling business. In fact there are some manufacturers that take constructive criticism to heart and improve their products: improved accuracy, better cockpit detailing, included aftermarket and masks in the box.

 

Over the years the Monogram, Hasegawa, and HB F-14's have been scrutinized. AMK saw an opportunity, but failed to live up to it's promise after half a decade of trying. In the meantime Tamiya seize the opportunity and now Great Wall sees an opening to corner part of the 1/48 F-14 market. The envelope is pushed because of nerdz.

 

The average Joe benefits from the "nerds".

My point was not to say that the modeling companies would be hurt. My point was that non-modelers would look on this thread and completely laugh at all of us. This is how our hobby is viewed by outsiders. We are picking at things that, to be honest, are so slight it's hard to see with the naked eye. And I'm a Tomcat nut! 

 

The difference between a neurosurgeon and a plastic model aren't even in the same ballpark. One is a healthy life and the other is a hobby purchased with disposable income.

Edited by Darren Roberts

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1 hour ago, Darren Roberts said:

My point was that non-modelers would look on this thread and completely laugh at all of us. This is how our hobby is viewed by outsiders. We are picking at things that, to be honest, are so slight it's hard to see with the naked eye. And I'm a Tomcat nut! 

 

I hate to say it but, Captain Obvious :naughty:, this would be true of any forum that discussed the fine details of some arcane subject. Those of us that get into this sort of analysis are probably OCD if not outright neurotic (just kidding). The average Joe off the street could care less about what we do on this forum.

Now, I will admit that some of the drive to pick at this kit derives from AMK's behavior over the past year or two. They made grandiose statements at the start of all this that it would be the most accurate F-14 kit available. They originally asked for help and feedback and when issues were pointed out, they hid behind their fan boys and said nothing.

Many have said the issues are so minuscule as to be impossible to see with the naked eye. That is patently false as those of us that found issues did so with our Mk.1 eyeballs. Every time I look at a built up kit I see those issues. Now do they make the kit unbuildable? Of course that is up to the individual, but I would say, of course not. It IS a highly detailed kit. Amazingly so. I'd say it is the most detailed F-14 kit available to date. Is it the most accurate? Definitively NO.

I am very grateful to Zactoman for the analysis he has done and, hopefully, will continue to do. I suspect there are shape issues with the fuselage (some of which Zactoman has pointed out today), that contribute to the misshaped "hips". If this kind of analysis is not your cup of tea, please just ignore us and do something else. The issues with AMK's behavior aside, I find this type of analysis and examination fascinating. I enjoyed the discussions on the shape issues of the ZM Phantoms, discussions of paints and colors used by modelers and their accuracy. Even discussions of aircraft kits I have no desire to build, I find interesting. Maybe I'm just weird, but I don't think I alone.

Well, I've rambled on enough. Hopefully I have made some sense to some of you. If not... :dontknow:

Edited by Mstor

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Well done.Chris on the breakdown of the differences it is interesting to see.

 

9 hours ago, B.Sin said:

  As far as I'm concerned, none of this is a deal breaker! 

 

Id say its not a deal breaker either its more like a missed chance for AMK.

For the hard core guys though its again lost sales from the guys who buy 4, 6 or 8 kits as many will look at the back end and once seen you can not “unsee” the issues.

Im sure we will see some superb builds of the kit its just a pity they ran out of money, motivation or ideas or all three and failed to deliver on the promise.

Is it a nice kit..yep.

Is it the best F-14, nope.

But i do think we will get some superb builds of the kit and see some great looking F-14’s as the plastic and level of detail even if exaggerated slightly will and does look great under low vis grey.

Just a pity sitting next to the Tamiya kit you will see that AMK back end waving at your eyes saying “remember me”...

 

 

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7 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

This thread is beginning to resemble a conversation at a Star Trek convention. 


which one?  TOS ?  TNG ?   DSN ?

 

oh wait....

 

 😊

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13 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

This thread is beginning to resemble a conversation at a Star Trek convention. 😁 


Yep, you should Jedi mind trick them and make it all better.

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31 minutes ago, Tank said:


Yep, you should Jedi mind trick them and make it all better.

Did you just mix Star Wars and Star Trek? You heretic! How could you?!? 😂

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10 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

Did you just mix Star Wars and Star Trek? You heretic! How could you?!? 😂

Savages....

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1 hour ago, Tank said:


Yep, you should Jedi mind trick them and make it all better.

Go ahead just try your Jedi Mind Tricks! (Cuz mind tricks were never in Star Trek :rofl:)

 

4216 best images about All things Trek on Pinterest | Leonard nimoy, Spock and USS Enterprise

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11 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

My point was not to say that the modeling companies would be hurt. My point was that non-modelers would look on this thread and completely laugh at all of us. This is how our hobby is viewed by outsiders. We are picking at things that, to be honest, are so slight it's hard to see with the naked eye. And I'm a Tomcat nut! 

 

The difference between a neurosurgeon and a plastic model aren't even in the same ballpark. One is a healthy life and the other is a hobby purchased with disposable income.

I don't care what non-modelers think. I'm sure they have things they nerd on about: Kraft Beers, Wines, Hot Rods, Rice Rockets, women's shoes . . . cuz he's a lumber jack . . . 

 

My naked eye can see the minute differences. Putting a tiny thread trough a needle requires good visual acuity, seeing mint marks on pennies, reading the names of the States on the Lincoln Memorial printed on the back of a five dollar bill isn't hard to see with the naked eye. Shape issues on a plastic model are easy to see, but then to demonstrate your suspicions to others, it's a good thing to use measurements. Zactoman has done that.

 

All the 1/48 P-40s kitted look different.  They are all "buildable" but which are most accurate? (Right now Airfix)

 

Would you choose to buy the old tool Tamiya Spitfire or the new tool Tamiya Spitfire if they both cost $30? Tamiya made a better Spitfire because Eduard raised expectations. I have built both Tamiya kits and I can see the differences. I bought two more New Tool Spits to build and the Old Tool kits will never see any glue. I had an old Monogram Spit but threw it out, perfectly buildable too! Just found a better date to go on in the Tamiya kit. 

 

Trust Us concept stock image. Image of trusty, ethical - 43873037 

 

As far as Neurosurgeons and modelers - well those that have become the very best at their work have a lot in common. I know a few local modelers that sell the kits they build for a thousand dollars for 1/48 scale single engine kits. Jets and multi-engine kits go for more! Their work is that outstanding. They are that good.

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1 hour ago, masanissa said:

 

 

4216 best images about All things Trek on Pinterest | Leonard nimoy, Spock and USS Enterprise

 

^^^Why is Captain Pickard attacking that poor Jawa with an antique garden hose in that Buck Rogers episode? Why didn't the Cylons protect him and how in the world did Marsha Brady get there...?

 

Related image

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21 minutes ago, masanissa said:

I don't care what non-modelers think. I'm sure they have things they nerd on about: Kraft Beers, Wines, Hot Rods, Rice Rockets, women's shoes . . . cuz he's a lumber jack . . . 

 

My naked eye can see the minute differences. Putting a tiny thread trough a needle requires good visual acuity, seeing mint marks on pennies, reading the names of the States on the Lincoln Memorial printed on the back of a five dollar bill isn't hard to see with the naked eye. Shape issues on a plastic model are easy to see, but then to demonstrate your suspicions to others, it's a good thing to use measurements. Zactoman has done that.

 

All the 1/48 P-40s kitted look different.  They are all "buildable" but which are most accurate? (Right now Airfix)

 

Would you choose to buy the old tool Tamiya Spitfire or the new tool Tamiya Spitfire if they both cost $30? Tamiya made a better Spitfire because Eduard raised expectations. I have built both Tamiya kits and I can see the differences. I bought two more New Tool Spits to build and the Old Tool kits will never see any glue. I had an old Monogram Spit but threw it out, perfectly buildable too! Just found a better date to go on in the Tamiya kit. 

 

Trust Us concept stock image. Image of trusty, ethical - 43873037 

 

As far as Neurosurgeons and modelers - well those that have become the very best at their work have a lot in common. I know a few local modelers that sell the kits they build for a thousand dollars for 1/48 scale single engine kits. Jets and multi-engine kits go for more! Their work is that outstanding. They are that good.

You make very good points, but they all don't address the issue at hand, which is that we're model geeks worried about millimeters on a plastic toy. You are completely correct that everyone has something they geek out about, and everybody else finds it amusing. And I see what you did with the shoe comment! I had buttered scones for tea. 😁 

 

You miss the point when you talk about visual acuity. Yes, you see it, but is it because you are passionate about the subject and it's been pointed out to you? I would bet that if you picked up this kit without any background knowledge you never would have noticed it. What about other subjects that you aren't knowledgeable about? Are you able to see the flaws in those as well?

 

You are also making the false assumption that everyone cares about shape accuracy. I would imagine the vast majority of model builders simply build for the fun and because of the subject matter. They really don't mind that the slope of the rear of the AMK Tomcat is slightly different from drawings or other manufacturer's kits. 

 

I build the old Monogram Tomcat over and over again. Not because it's better than the Tamiya kit, but because it's more affordable and I want to build a whole slew of them. It's also FUN! If I could get the Tamiya kit at $10, of course I'd buy it over the Monogram kit. But that's completely unrealistic. It boggles my mind that you'd literally throw away a kit simply because you found a better one. Why not give it to a kid, or another modeler, or even sell it? But to simply throw it away? That sure seems like a waste. 

 

Good for the modeler who sells his builds for thousands of dollars. But that has nothing to do with the model itself. It has everything to do with his skill. It also doesn't change the fact that plastic models are far less important than health care. As for those buying a model for thousands of dollars, I guess the old adage is true that a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

Here's the bottom line. Those who worry about accuracy or more than free to discuss it at length, as that is what this message board is for. Those who don't care about accuracy are  just as free to be amused and marvel at 270 pages and countless hours of energy expended over a few millimeters on a plastic toy that doesn't have a measurable impact on ones life. If it does have a measurable impact on ones life, I would suggest their priorities are in the completely wrong place and they need to reevaluate their outlook on life.

 

I've done my part to push this thread closer to 300 pages. 😊

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2 minutes ago, Don said:

 

^^^Why is Captain Pickard attacking that poor Jawa with an antique garden hose in that Buck Rogers episode? Why didn't the Cylons protect him and how in the world did Marsha Brady get there...?

 

Related image

 

Oh, that was good! Well played sir, well played!

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