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32 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

What is a "pro builder" anyway?
Who decides if you are a pro builder?

 

I mean is there a professional test you can take to see if you are?

 

If you've been paid to build or have sold a model you've built, you're a professional.

 

-Gregg

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Well I am now thoroughly confused.  Last year I built a piece of furniture - specifically a chair with armrests.  I then sold the chair and was paid in cash.

 

Does that make me an Armchair builder?  or a Pro builder?

 

:touche:

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6 minutes ago, habu2 said:

Well I am now thoroughly confused.  Last year I built a piece of furniture - specifically a chair with armrests.  I then sold the chair and was paid in cash.

 

Does that make me an Armchair builder?  or a Pro builder?

 

:touche:

That makes you a pro armchair builder of course.

 

:woot.gif:

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39 minutes ago, Don said:

That makes you a pro armchair builder of course.

 

:woot.gif:

 

I'ma gonna go with "Amateur Armachair Builder".  I kinda like the alliterative acoustics of that appellation...  :thumbsup:

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4 hours ago, shion said:

We're not talking about "resultant" fit issues here.

Just look at the fit front fuselage/main fuselage. If you know how the kit is designed, you know these parts aren't "builder dependant", width and height are from the sprues OOB.

Not defending the kit, but with a little work (more than should be necessary for a modern kit) the parts can be adjusted to fit to an acceptable level.

Nose_fit_1_zpswioieifq.jpg

Nose_fit_2_zpsgspk2gxf.jpg

Nose_fit_3_zpsqva26o7t.jpg

Nose_fit_4_zpsgozvxd7y.jpg

Nose_fit_5_zpsrijahcan.jpg

Nose_fit_6_zpsiz2ihbvh.jpg

Granted, I don't have anything glued together and the internal parts aren't installed, but if you make sure those internal parts don't interfere (i.e. cockpit/nose gear well fit) then the actual assembly should match what I'm showing here.

 

There is still an annoying gap that will need to be dealt with.

Nose_fit_7_zpsxpgigacv.jpg

Had the nose been molded in two halves this could have been molded like traditional Tomcat kits and wouldn't be a problem.

 

:cheers:

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1 hour ago, Don said:

Darren have you ever done a step-by-step build thread on the Monogram/Revell Tomcat here? I have tried (and failed) with that kit many times and I'd be interested in seeing how you do it. The cheap cost of that kit is a big seller for me but man its one of the most  frustrating Monogram/Revell builds!

Happy modeling!

Mr. Roberts has an article in Fine Scale Modeler (10.15. 2008) about the steps to building a better Monogram Tomcat.

Here's the link.

http://www.finescale.com/online-extras/2008/10/better-ways-to-build-monograms-1-48-scale-top-gun-f-14-tomcat

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7 minutes ago, Grand Toad said:

Mr. Roberts has an article in Fine Scale Modeler (10.15. 2008) about the steps to building a better Monogram Tomcat.

Here's the link.

http://www.finescale.com/online-extras/2008/10/better-ways-to-build-monograms-1-48-scale-top-gun-f-14-tomcat

 

I printed that article out years ago and refer to it every time I start a MonoCat.  When finished I move the article to the next unbuilt kit.

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I don't understand this argue over pro modellers. Currently for couple of years now "pro" is a synonym of "skilled". In my eyes arguing over using "pro modeller" is just blurring the true point of discussion.

 

15 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

Not defending the kit, but with a little work (more than should be necessary for a modern kit) the parts can be adjusted to fit to an acceptable level.

Nose_fit_1_zpswioieifq.jpg

Nose_fit_2_zpsgspk2gxf.jpg

Nose_fit_3_zpsqva26o7t.jpg

Nose_fit_4_zpsgozvxd7y.jpg

Nose_fit_5_zpsrijahcan.jpg

Nose_fit_6_zpsiz2ihbvh.jpg

Granted, I don't have anything glued together and the internal parts aren't installed, but if you make sure those internal parts don't interfere (i.e. cockpit/nose gear well fit) then the actual assembly should match what I'm showing here.

 

There is still an annoying gap that will need to be dealt with.

Nose_fit_7_zpsxpgigacv.jpg

Had the nose been molded in two halves this could have been molded like traditional Tomcat kits and wouldn't be a problem.

 

:cheers:

This is something I was afraid of, this annoying gap is in terrible place to work on. Funny thing, even HB made this right in their kit. The fitting of fuselage front-rear was very good and required no putty.

Edit. Of course you should use styrene strips to tighten the fit before mounting fuselage parts together.

Edited by Tapchan
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2 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

I printed that article out years ago and refer to it every time I start a MonoCat.  When finished I move the article to the next unbuilt kit.

I wish I had that article in the 1980s when I was in full MonoCat mode. I must have built a dozen or more. Unfortunately, my mom trashed them all when the family moved. I had them stored in their garage. I went to a local hobby shop, at the time, that sold the Monogram Tomcats dirt cheap. I like that kit because the shape seems right.

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1 minute ago, ElectroSoldier said:

That last photo zactoman posted is of interest. It gap needs to be shimmed out I think...

Its the only problem Ive seen as a problem.

Buy and build the kit. You'll find lots of problems...

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1 hour ago, GreyGhost said:

 

If you've been paid to build or have sold a model you've built, you're a professional.

 

-Gregg

 

1 hour ago, habu2 said:

Well I am now thoroughly confused.  Last year I built a piece of furniture - specifically a chair with armrests.  I then sold the chair and was paid in cash.

 

Does that make me an Armchair builder?  or a Pro builder?

 

:touche:

Pro builder. You always will be Habu2 😉

1 hour ago, shion said:

To me they are "just" well built models...

 

I suppose its just a modern turn of phrase... a verbal phrase even.

24 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

Not defending the kit, but with a little work (more than should be necessary for a modern kit) the parts can be adjusted to fit to an acceptable level.

Nose_fit_1_zpswioieifq.jpg

Nose_fit_2_zpsgspk2gxf.jpg

Nose_fit_3_zpsqva26o7t.jpg

Nose_fit_4_zpsgozvxd7y.jpg

Nose_fit_5_zpsrijahcan.jpg

Nose_fit_6_zpsiz2ihbvh.jpg

Granted, I don't have anything glued together and the internal parts aren't installed, but if you make sure those internal parts don't interfere (i.e. cockpit/nose gear well fit) then the actual assembly should match what I'm showing here.

 

There is still an annoying gap that will need to be dealt with.

Nose_fit_7_zpsxpgigacv.jpg

Had the nose been molded in two halves this could have been molded like traditional Tomcat kits and wouldn't be a problem.

 

:cheers:

I think you have in one half of a sentence hit the nail on the head there.
"more than should be necessary for a modern kit"

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On 1/23/2020 at 3:28 AM, bushande said:

I still wonder if there is really no halfway reasonable method you could bring the kit's rear around?! I am impressed by Chris's effort so far and am curious about the steps he did to achieve the displayed result. However I confess I would still think that the sealbags still have a somewhat too rounded and pronounced upper edge. As great as Zactos work is so far, i still don't think it is where it should be reg. the original. Saying that I confess I would so far not have been able to achieve the level of correction he did so far.

I don't think there's any way to truly fix the rear. As I mentioned this exercise was merely a band-aid and a solution that an average skilled modeler might want to undertake. To attempt to truly fix the rear would involve changing the v-stabs, the v-stab intersection and the top of the rear nacelles. And even then there would be other problems with the fuselage thickness and lower nacelle parts as previously mentioned.

What I've done was also quick-and-dirty, for the purpose of doing a tutorial, and could be definitely be improved upon.

 

In that previous pic I hadn't moved the lower edge of the bladder intersection (as previously mentioned here).

Moving that intersection reduces the size/height of the bladder.

Hip_fix_3_zps1t8w61du.jpg

Also that previous picture had harsh lighting so the edge radius appeared sharp.

Hip_fix_4_zps96q0osys.jpg

I'll confess that I didn't pay much attention to the bladder other than the rear area where it transitioned into the hip (and even this was just approximate). The far forward radius is a bit too big and I'm not happy with the inflation shape. I may yet modify this, or just find time to do the tutorial and call it quits until I'm ready to actually build this thing.

 

:cheers:

Edited by Zactoman
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7 minutes ago, Zactoman said:

I don't think there's any way to truly fix the rear. As I mentioned this exercise was merely a band-aid and a solution that an average skilled modeler might want to undertake. To attempt to truly fix the rear would involve changing the v-stabs, the v-stab intersection and the top of the rear nacelles. And even then there would be other problems with the fuselage thickness and lower nacelle parts as previously mentioned.

What I've done was also quick-and-dirty, for the purpose of doing a tutorial, and could be definitely be improved upon.

 

In that previous pic I hadn't moved the lower edge of the bladder intersection (as previously mentioned here).

Moving that intersection reduces the size/height of the bladder.

Hip_fix_3_zps1t8w61du.jpg

Also that previous picture had harsh lighting so the edge radius appeared sharp.

Hip_fix_4_zps96q0osys.jpg

I'll confess that I didn't pay much attention to the bladder other than the rear area where it transitioned into the hip (and even this was just approximate). The far forward radius is a bit too big and I'm not happy with the inflation shape. I may yet modify this, or just find time to do the tutorial and call it quits until I'm ready to actually build this thing.

 

:cheers:

 

If this was the AMK's shape I'd not complain much and could accept it. It simply does not hit the eye as the original one and allow to expose the end by unsweeping wings.

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5 hours ago, shion said:

The japanese builder (I gave a link of his WIPs) got exactly the same issue, same result and solved it with stretch sprues + classic putty + epoxy putty.

The builder from modelforum.cz (I gave a link too) got the same issue, same result and solved it with epoxy putty.

 

Always sharing links/images of other modelers work, but never your own. Is it any wonder that your opinion of the kit doesn't really matter all that much?

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3 hours ago, Don said:

Darren have you ever done a step-by-step build thread on the Monogram/Revell Tomcat here? I have tried (and failed) with that kit many times and I'd be interested in seeing how you do it. The cheap cost of that kit is a big seller for me but man its one of the most  frustrating Monogram/Revell builds!

Happy modeling!

 

If you go to FInescale.com and type "Darren Roberts" into the search bar, there is a free downloadable article on the shortcuts I use. I've refined them since then, but this will give you a good idea of what to do.

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3 hours ago, shion said:

 

They try other kits too, new ones among them, and succeed.

So no, the fact a seasoned builder knows how to deal with the HAS Tomcat doesn't imply this builder can't deal with other kits. 

 

 

You completely missed the point. I'm not trying to say the AMK kit doesn't have issues. I'm countering your point that it's horrible. I built the AMK kit and I didn't have near the issue with the front fuselage to rear fuselage mating area. What does that say? Does that say I'm a better builder than the ones you are referencing? Or maybe I got lucky? I'm not sure why you keep hounding on this and referencing other builders. I don't know them from Adam. They are probably very proficient builders. But that doesn't mean they are the end-all, be-all of modeling. Their's is not the final say. My whole point is that he had issues, but if he were to build it a couple more times, he would find ways to mitigate and overcome the issues. That's where experience of the build comes in. That was my point. 

Edited by Darren Roberts
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13 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

Does that say I'm a better builder than the ones you are referencing?

 

Yes, you are a better builder. You are better at test-fitting and adjusting parts, you are more patient, you are accepting of the fact that what you have is what you have, and you let your enthusiasm for the project outweigh the potential disappointment that a kit isn’t everything it was advertised to be. You’re an optimist. 

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1 hour ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

If you go to FInescale.com and type "Darren Roberts" into the search bar, there is a free downloadable article on the shortcuts I use. I've refined them since then, but this will give you a good idea of what to do.

Great thanks! Headed there right now. :thumbsup:

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4 hours ago, habu2 said:

Well I am now thoroughly confused.  Last year I built a piece of furniture - specifically a chair with armrests.  I then sold the chair and was paid in cash.

 

Does that make me an Armchair builder?  or a Pro builder?

 

:touche:

 

I guess i should have stipulated that building said models and selling them are your main/additional source of income. If you build the chairs as your main or additional source of income, you're a professional furniture maker ...:thumbsup:

 

-Gregg

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