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Morality of Hunting and Sport Fishing


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Might want to rethink that except that the left wingers are doing it and the folks on the right are mostly not. People on the right are generally not imposing anything. The are defending already established individual freedoms, private assets, and liberties, as well as protecting traditional values that are proven conventional wisdoms. The intolerence is on the left and it is the left that wants to do all of the imposing....high taxation to support Obamacare, welfare, and other income redistribution programs, changing the definition of marriage whose basic meaning has been understood by most cultures across the entire planet for thousands of years, insisting that any harmless religious icon (like the ten commandments) be removed from state buildings, removing Confederate battle flags from places of southern honor (slavery existed for much longer under the American flag than it ever did under the Confederacy...want to ban Old Glory too?), outlawing (in effect) Christmas in schools by calling it "Winter Break" and a "Holiday Tree," opening up our borders to all comers without a proper vetting in order to increase liberal Democratic voter bases. When it was convenient, the Democrats defended slavery and fought tooth and nail against its abolition, promoted segregation throughout society, and argued against allowing minorities to vote. They introduced and to this day still champion moral relativism and so called "social justice" policies that are underachievement enabling, promote so called "white guilt" and reverse discrimination despite it being unconstitutional to do so, and completely reject any notion of personal accountability or individual, generational, or cultural Darwinism. They largely view capitalism as a grave, exploitive, unjust evil.

The left dislikes most of what made America great and culturally defines us. They are doing their best to tear it all down and rebuild it as a socialist nation, with a permanent, government dependent class. Frankly, they are succeeding. If that is what you want, vote Democrat in 2016

There are some on the right who are short sighted as well, specifically with regards to immigration (cheap undocumented labor) and overseas trade opportunism (again, cheap labor). They aren't any friends of mine, either.

Getting pretty politiky there, aren't you?

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I had a friend that was an avid hunter....owned a few rifles he stored securely in his home. One day I was talking to him....he had sold his guns and bought a high powered camera.........he now used a camera for hunting.....he is now always after the perfect photo.

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We have a small museum in the area that has exotic animals from Africa and around the world. Included are lions, giraffes, elephants, down to mice, rats, and everything in between. The owners are a local family that has done well in the construction business. A good portion of the animals that they have killed were killed by request of the local governments. The animals killed were a danger to humans and/or other animals because they had killed humans, and/or animals. This is another way of looking at it. Many of the animals that have been killed and brought back from Africa were done to for similar reasons.

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Getting pretty politiky there, aren't you?

It's politiky, and the application of facts is also pretty picky-choosy.

Saying that the Right doesn't apply or impose sweeping policy is laughable. Nothing small about government, no matter who runs it.

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Here's how I hunt:

DSC_0058.jpg

Beautiful!

I like to tell people that I enjoy two kinds of shooting: the challenge of shooting black at long ranges, and the challenge of shooting pictures at air shows.

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My background - I grew up as a Graziers son, so for me killing animals is work, not pleasure. I currently hunt feral animals on my family property, and help out friends when they have need to destroy pests. I'll dress the odd pig, goat or a few rabbits for dog food, and the occasional deer (only a problem at one friends property), but most of the cats, pigs, goats and dogs I shoot end up as fertiliser. I've fished all my life, for food and sport, from chasing small (but legal) fish, to catching an estimated 300Kg Black Marlin.

I have no problem with people hunting, as long as it's done sensibly, and within reason. I abhor the drunken idiots who go out only to kill, racking up large numbers of dead animals and empty cans.

Personally I have no desire to go big game hunting in Africa, but have accompanied a friend on one of his trips. He was hunting a bull giraffe. We where given a week to get to SA and then spent 10 days tracking the Giraffe before my friend killed it.

The giraffe was old, beyond breeding age and was at the stage of life where death was imminent.

The costs involved where about $350 per day for the hunter, $150 per day each for myself, my wife and his wife as observers. The licence fee for the giraffe was $3000, so in total about $15,000 was injected into the community in a bit under a fortnight. There where other costs involved in dressing the animal, which again went straight back to the community, as did the meat from the giraffe. My friend took home the pelt, which was treated locally.

As I mentioned, we spent about 10 days stalking the giraffe, seeing many other animals, and the only trigger fired was that on our cameras intil the 2 shots fired into the giraffe.

Now, why did I mention the money? Well, it gives a great incentive to the locals to actively fight poaching, and to manage the animals that are native to the area. Without that incentive there would be far fewer animals alive today. My only issue was that by killing and removing the Giraffe it denied predators an easy kill, but as a guide mentioned, removing 1 or 2 of the weakest animals per week has very little impact, there are more than enough natural deaths amongst the herds to feed the thriving lion, leopard and Hyena population.

Now I understand and empathise with people who feel that killing any animal is wrong, but on balance I see that the death of one will help the survival of not only one species, but numerous others, so whilst I have no desire to kill any native species, I can reconcile why it happens, and applaud those who manage the ecosystem as efficiently as they do.

I found it easy to see the moral justification for the killing of the giraffe in the situation as related above. The vast majority of South Africa's residents would probably support this activity, and the governing powers certainly would. However, as news commentator Paul Harvey used to say, "This is not one world." So-called "animal-rights" organizations would use the killing of any giraffe to good advantage as ammunition against all hunting. This kind of fallout is something any thinking hunter might want to consider, given that hunting is not everyone's cup of tea in today's world.

It's my opinion that the world at present has about all the hunters it can stand. There is only so much land and so many animals. Competing activities have displaced hunting from vast areas. If traditional hunting—hunting mainly for meat—is to continue into the foreseeable future, the number of hunters must stabilize at some point, and hunters must stand united and work hard to hold on to their cultural and traditional values. These values will depend up maintaining morals that are respected by their fellow humans. The most noble reason for hunting is for food. I think we can count on other reasons being judged increasingly harshly as Earth's population increases.

Fishing differs from hunting in one major respect: Catching fish and, instead of killing and eating them, turning them loose. When animals are caught and released, it's usually for tagging purposes, not just for the fun of it. Hunting, if done properly, kills. To the best of my knowledge, there is no catch and release hunting.

"C & r" fishing allows anglers to keep fishing even after catching a limit. It allows people who don't like to eat fish to have fun catching them without having to take them home and eat them. In most cases, only a small percentage of fish die after being caught and released, so a given fishery will support more c & r fishing than the traditional kind. This makes c & r a useful "management tool" for fisheries managers.

Where I have a problem with c & r fishing is when it becomes the ONLY fishing, when it replaces traditional fishing. In recent years, Alaska's fisheries managers have been using c & r to give more fishing "opportunity" to anglers. Supported mainly by fishing guides and a burgeoning sport-fishing industry, this has caused no end of conflict. In recent years, for example, king (chinook) salmon have been returning to their Alaskan spawning streams in low numbers for reasons that remain unknown. At times, fishing has been limited to "c & r only." In my view, when there are so few fish returning that the species is fighting for its collective life, there should be no fishing at all, let alone fishing that makes these magnificent animals fight for their collective life and possibly die without having a chance to reproduce its kind. All this, just to give someone a thrill, a few moments of fun.

Is this particular sport fishing moral?

I think not. I think the only reason it is being done is to support what has become an unsustainable sport-fishing industry consisting of guides and supporting businesses. In other words, the justification for this kind of fishing comes down to whether money can be made from it. The very state bureaucrats who hatched the idea of using c & r as a management tool" for king salmon fishing are now dependent upon the revenue generated by the sale of fishing licenses and king salmon stamps, which comes mainly from out-of-state tourists.

The point I hope I made here is that moral issues involving fishing and hunting are a real can of worms. People's attitudes are changing faster than ever before due to technological advances in communication. One day's decision to do something "right" can viewed tomorrow as having been morally reprehensible. I find myself longing for the good-old days, when I got what I knew about hunting by reading a Hemingway or Robert Ruark novel.

Edited by Unglued
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Getting pretty politiky there, aren't you?

Yeah, you're right. My bad.

I just get a little upset when the "right winger" pejorative generalities start getting thrown out. There is a lot of intellectual merit in traditional conservative thought if one takes the time to look beyond some of the typical liberal claptrap accusations. There is SOME intellectual merit in a few liberal positions as well (like maybe 10%), IMO

In all fairness, he did call out some "left wingers" as being intolerant. I will also acknowledge that there is bias and closed mindedness among some extreme conservatives as well.

Edited by DutyCat
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It's politiky, and the application of facts is also pretty picky-choosy.

Saying that the Right doesn't apply or impose sweeping policy is laughable. Nothing small about government, no matter who runs it.

Yes, they do on some things...but generally speaking, with a few exceptions, the right wants to stay hands off. Today's left is left is far more aggressive and controlling when it comes to progressive social engineering efforts. The right wants to spend money on defense, but then you get into that "enriching the military industrial complex" the left likes to harp so much about.

I don't want to give the impression that all if the social change championed by the left in past decades has been bad. There were a bunch of labor, civil rights, social security, and banking regulatory initiatives that came about in the middle of the last century. These were Democratic initiatives. However, most of the crap they are trying to do now I personally don't agree with.

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Yeah I have to agree. Killing anything you're not going to eat is just pointless. It's the ultimate in short Johnson syndrome. I mean "Why?" no one has actually answered that. Killing just because you can is bordering on moronic, correction, it is moronic. The thrill of the hunt? You can get that killing a duck or deer that our going to eat. Killing lions, tigers etc is just wrong.

What if it's about to eat you?

-Gregg

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Yes, they do on some things...but generally speaking, with a few exceptions, the right wants to stay hands off. Today's left is left is far more aggressive and controlling when it comes to progressive social engineering efforts. The right wants to spend money on defense, but then you get into that "enriching the military industrial complex" the left likes to harp so much about.

I don't want to give the impression that all if the social change championed by the left in past decades has been bad. There were a bunch of labor, civil rights, social security, and banking regulatory initiatives that came about in the middle of the last century. These were Democratic initiatives. However, most of the crap they are trying to do now I personally don't agree with.

Nope. The Right wants more of my low to middle class tax dollars than the Left. The Right wants to determine how my sisters and mother use their body. The Right wants to socially engineer the country by undercutting funding for education. The Right has continuously voted to slash Veterans benefits, including education, vocational training and the ongoing rehabilitation for our injured Warriors. The Right doesn't know that it even wants these things until someone challenges it on it.

I don't have a problem with you holding your views, I have a problem with you generalizing the Left without a leg to stand on.

Edited by Exhausted
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Taken just now. This little guy was hilarious - trying to flick the yellow jacket away from the feeder with his beak, while squawking loudly on the hover. Love my new 120-400 plaything! :)

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Annnnd...bu'bye!

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Sounds to me like this is getting political.... L vs R. Why can we not let this sickness enter posts. I'm no longer interested. This has degenerated.

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The problem is it never should start. Once someone blathers something off while assuming that everyone else is onboard, it goes downhill. It shouldn't happen in the first place, but if it does then the cat's out of the bag.

Just don't initiate and we're all good.

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The problem is it never should start. Once someone blathers something off while assuming that everyone else is onboard, it goes downhill. It shouldn't happen in the first place, but if it does then the cat's out of the bag.

Just don't initiate and we're all good.

So why didn't you post something like this in response as opposed to blaming the "Right" and trying to counter thus giving you the last word? Just my two cents.....

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Good pictures Jennings. That last one of the hummingbirdass is delightful. You captured the texture of said rump really well. :D/> Seriously though, there is a nice spread of colors captured across the back of the bird.

Here's an example of my shooting.

DSC_1320_zps963d706a.jpg

Edited by Exhausted
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Taken just now. This little guy was hilarious - trying to flick the yellow jacket away from the feeder with his beak, while squawking loudly on the hover. Love my new 120-400 plaything! :)/>

DSC_0114.jpg

DSC_0123.jpg

DSC_0127.jpg

DSC_0134.jpg

DSC_0136.jpg

Annnnd...bu'bye!

DSC_0155.jpg

Jennings,

you've done very well! But I was more impressed with the honey bee. I love macro photography, and that little bee is where I start.

gary

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Nice pics, I couldn't take a shot like that if my life depended on it. Did you have to get involved with detailed settings or just set the mode to "macro" and shoot away?

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