Jump to content

1/72 Kitbashed A-4F Skyhawk Blue Angels


Recommended Posts

So this marvelous journey started a few years ago when I returned to scale modeling and blindly dove in expecting to learn through my mistakes and ignorance. Which we all know is the fun way to learn! Having fond childhood memories of the A-4 Blue Angles it was the first thing I wanted to build in 1/72 scale. So I found this kit and got a couple of them:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels004.JPG

A few months later I produced this:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels003.JPG

I'm fairly happy with how it turned out, got a lot of answers of how to fix issues I recall having in my teens when I built models. I learned also that not all kits are how they appear on the box. I noticed with this first kit though, some proportions just didn't feel right and it kept nagging at me. So I endeavored to figure out what those details were.

Flash forward to this:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels002.JPG

I created a kind of base outline to check for and compared various kits to the outline, from that I learned about the specific differences in the kits. The well detailed Fujimi kit has an extra wide body which affects some of the details on the wings. The tail fin has slightly more S curve in it then the real thing as well. The ESCI kit is more like an A-4E in nose shape and its wings aren't quite correctly shaped. The Hasegawa A-4F I build across the board is oversize and the profile leaves room for improvement. This is more or less true with what I've read from others observations about the various kits out there. By chance though the kit I had also had the trainer version and when I took the fuselage on a whim and checked its shape it matched up very well compared to any of the other kits, with the obvious exception that it was a little longer due to the two seater variant.

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels001.JPG

(The middle fuselage is the trainer and the bottom fuselage is the F variant I built that's super over-sized and ugly all around.)

A curious observation I noticed on the trainer was that the front half of the fuselage actually has recessed panel lines while the back half has raised, which is rather mind boggling. For them to be so close to accurate on the trainer and be off so badly on the F variant included in THE SAME BOX drives me a little nuts. The down side with the trainer is the body is still too wide and fat looking so will need to be rebuilt.

So I want to take the body of the Hasegawa TA-4J and kit-bash it with the new Airfix A-4B/P kits wings which appear to be accurate enough. Along the way I'll have to build some Super Fox intakes not to mention completely build the cockpit area from scratch. I also want to try and get a peek into the intakes and view the engine fan in this scale so there's a lot to rebuild into the fuselage!

I would like to point out that all I'm trying to do is bring it closer to the preferred shape not get so caught up in the details that it sucks the project dry of its spirit. There's a lot of room for interpretation here and it could easily get out of hand or stuck in a logical loop that prevents progress. It won't be perfect in the end, that's all. I think it will work though and as long as its an improved shape from my first attempt I'll be satisfied. It'll be slow at first since I still need the Airfix kit to work out proper proportions and my budget is super tight at the moment.

In general I want to avoid getting into the details too much with this thread simply because it will keep me focused and so you can't see the holes in my minds confused logic..er I mean...so you won't...get too...bored and stuff.

So anyway, that's were its at. I'll do what I can to update but if it becomes too much to try and describe whats going on and do it all I may not update as much, I can never tell how its going to go with me. So enjoy the build!

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing you mentioned when you dismissed the Esci is that it is "more like an A-4E in nose shape",,,,,well, A-4F noses are exactly the same as the A-4E.

The two aircraft are so exactly the same in outline and shape that many people call an A-4 Super Echo an A-4F, because the only difference is the wing spoilers and the BuNo. (a lot of people must miss that nose gear difference, to me that is the dead giveaway)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no expert on the differences, I mainly go by observation and I do believe you that the E and F are the same now that I'm looking again which only reveals my own ignorance and hesitancy to get too bogged down in the details. The main point I meant is the Esci nose doesn't match the profile as well. Thank you for the clarification though its good to get things straight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep this in mind as you post on your Hasegawa build. Anything I say about sizes when it comes to your build is intended to be 100% supportive.

I am one of the biggest critics of both the Hasegawa's "too long" molding,,,and the Italeri's "too short" molding.**

So to see someone try to get either of those kits to be more in line with the lengths of the Fujimi, Esci, and new tool Airfix kit is a huge plus in my book.

(** I think I have come by it honestly, I have enough kits of all the toolings that I know which ones are going to look "off" on the shelves compared to the others)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for that, it can be difficult to read correctly intended tone with text alone.

I don't have the Fujimi or Esci kit with me any more so I'm actually going by memory of a year or two ago when I made some observations. Dangerous I know!

Going back to your original comment about the nose gear I too actually noticed the difference in the nose gear between the E and the F, I even made sure to add it on my first build since its rarely added as stock in the kits. At least the black bar, there might be some gizmo on the right side of the gear as well I might be missing. True enough that's the easiest way to tell the difference.

Thanks again for your support!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there any pics out there on the net which show the difference in nosegear? Since I am working on two Fujimi A-4Fs atm I'd like to know the difference(s). Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Tommy has a Skyhawk page. At one of his sites.

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/

https://www.blogger.com/home (I'm sorry for not having a direct link,,,,,I mostly only link home pages, because I use books for almost everything I look up)

If he does, I am sure he hit on the nose wheel steering introduced on the A-4F and fitted to other versions. And the nose gear link that is only available in one of the White Metal Landing Gear sets. (1/72 kits all left it off)

Pollie, don't your kits have both types on the sprues? Part 8 on the sprue with the nose halves is the A-4E and earlier style, and Part 91, next to the hump halves is the A-4F and later steerable gear.

Edited by Rex
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Tommy has a Skyhawk page. At one of his sites.

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/

https://www.blogger.com/home (I'm sorry for not having a direct link,,,,,I mostly only link home pages, because I use books for almost everything I look up)

If he does, I am sure he hit on the nose wheel steering introduced on the A-4F and fitted to other versions. And the nose gear link that is only available in one of the White Metal Landing Gear sets. (1/72 kits all left it off)

Pollie, don't your kits have both types on the sprues? Part 8 on the sprue with the nose halves is the A-4E and earlier style, and Part 91, next to the hump halves is the A-4F and later steerable gear.

Thank you Rex! And yes, both types of NLG are on the sprues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Tommy has a Skyhawk page. At one of his sites.

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/

https://www.blogger.com/home (I'm sorry for not having a direct link,,,,,I mostly only link home pages, because I use books for almost everything I look up)

If he does, I am sure he hit on the nose wheel steering introduced on the A-4F and fitted to other versions. And the nose gear link that is only available in one of the White Metal Landing Gear sets. (1/72 kits all left it off)

Well, as it turns out, I may not have done anything explicit about the nose-gear steering in my blogs. It is covered in my book Scooter!. I've remedied that with this post: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2015/07/a-4-nose-gear-steering.html

For an index of my Skyhawk modeling posts, see http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2013/03/a4d-4-skyhawk-collector.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

TT, I don't think you get as many Thank You's as you should.

So, here's a big one.

I really like the way you see a thread with a discussion or a question about Navair, and then go make a blog posting for us to look at.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Realigning the shape after my first attempt was incorrectly positioned. The nose will need some extending apparently. The top shape is the A-4F the bottom is the two seat TA-4J trainer. Apparently the trainer shape needs some fiddling and extending as well. I love how the tail end aligns to the shape though. Bends in all the right ways and places!

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels005.JPG

Edited by Holtsberry Hobbiest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Realigning the shape after my first attempt was incorrectly positioned. The nose will need some extending apparently. The top shape is the A-4F the bottom is the two seat TA-4J trainer. Apparently the trainer shape needs some fiddling and extending as well. I love how the tail end aligns to the shape though. Bends in all the right ways and places!

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels005.JPG

The A-4E/F should be 40' 3" long measured along the water line, not including the refueling probe; the corresponding length for the TA-4 is 42' 7". The additional 28 inches was added ahead of the engine inlet, roughly where the ejection seat bulkhead is on the single-seat A-4. Where did you get the dimensions shown on your layout?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Using the Techinfo section on a4skyhawk.org. Linkie here. It shows the earlyer birds at 40'1" but says the E/F is 41'3", and TA-4J at 43'7". 40'1" "felt" more correct to my eyes but decided to go by what info I knew at the moment.

What was the difference between the TA-4J and TA-4F? Says the F had more pylons, was it more of an operations version? Just curious. Thanks for the heads up, its good to know WHERE the length is added too so as not to pull the rest of the proportions off!

Edited by Holtsberry Hobbiest
Link to post
Share on other sites

Using the Techinfo section on a4skyhawk.org. Linkie here. It shows the earlyer birds at 40'1" but says the E/F is 41'3", and TA-4J at 43'7". 40'1" "felt" more correct to my eyes but decided to go by what info I knew at the moment.

What was the difference between the TA-4J and TA-4F? Says the F had more pylons, was it more of an operations version? Just curious. Thanks for the heads up, its good to know WHERE the length is added too so as not to pull the rest of the proportions off!

That's the problem with tables. Those numbers are probably correct for some A-4 dimension but not the one you assumed they were for. See http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2012/11/airfix-172-a4d-2-overall-size-and-shape.html

Using two illustrations from that post, you can calculate the overall length of the A-4E/F to be 40' 3 1/4".

The TA-4F was produced with full weapon systems capability, to be used as a combat trainer by the light attack replacement air groups, sort of postgraduate training after the pilots received their wings. The TA-4Js were originally intended to serve as advanced trainers by the training command, and were therefore procured without the two outboard pylons, the 20mm cannon, and the gun sight. However, provisions were retained and some TA-4Js were upgraded as required by training requirements.

The wing span was always 27' 6".

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the alignment after adjusting the dimensions to more appropriate numbers:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels006.JPG

I really like how well this profile lines up to the specs, sure there's some work in a few places but that's the fun of the kit building!

The fuselage on the F profile is actually a Hagesawa TA-4J fuselage with some material trimmed off (indicated by the red lines). So I'm not even using the original Hagesawa F fuselage which is too out of scale to be of any use.

Edited by Holtsberry Hobbiest
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Progress update...

First I came across an interesting tidbit while looking for parts. Apparently HobbyBoss has scheduled a new tooled A-4E, F, and M for release this year. I found the first reference at Hannants and after searching around came across this:

Scalemates Hobbyboss A-4 Link

I'm not sure what to expect but I'm excited to see how it comes off.

So back to the build...

I got a hold of the Airfix kit:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels007.JPG

A nice little kit! The plastic is a bit soft and the details appear a bit rounded and shallow but definately still passable. Getting the fuselage off the spruses is kind of a chore without gouging out a chunk of plastic you'll need to fill in later. And then theres this little quandry:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels008.JPG

How the heck do you remove the sprue without hacking off those little tabs?! Took some time but I managed. Still rather annoying sprue design.

Anyway, I was expecting to use the wings for the kitbash, however after looking at the body and comparing its shape...

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels009.JPG

I'm at a crossroad. It would be MUCH easyer to just wack off the nose of the airfix kit, replace it with the nose of the hasegawa kit, use and rebuild the air intakes from the hasegawa as well and save a TON of work rebuilding the whole fuselage of the hasegawa kit, which I'm really not sure my modeling skills are up to snuff on...

For example:

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels011.JPG

Here you can see the fat fuselage of the Hasegawa which needs to be thinned considerably. Originally I was thinking of trying to create profile ribs and constructing the whole frame by laying strips of styreen across the rib frame. A TON of work as it turns out and very time consuming. So then I decided maybe I'll try...

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels012.JPG

Thickening the frame and sanding it down to the required size.

KitbashedA4FSkyhawkBlueAngels010.JPG

Still a ton of work because I have to sculp the shape to blend to the wings correctly and somehow work the body to connect the the front half of the plane and reconstruct the cockpit area from scratch, then take into account the engine air inlets spacial requirements. Rather daunting really. So in the interest of time, resources, sanity and frustration I'm leaning toward plan B.

Any thoughts on what anyone wants to see? I "might" go with plan A (rebuild everything on the Hasegawa) just to try it once then build any future Blue Angels using plan B, the nose hack. But i'm not sure I can finish it in time for the end of the GB. I'm undecided, and with the Hobbyboss kit coming there might not be any more motivation to kitbash for correct shapes again. So this might turn from a rebuild Hasegawa kit thread to a hack the nose of an Airfix thread.

Anyway, thats where its at for now. Hope you enjoy something from this!

Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I would like to see someone convert the Airfix B to an E,,,,there is one more place to look at on those two kits.

Lay the fuselage halves facing in opposite directions, so that you can compare the rudders. As you will see, if your planned markings don't include any decals that will have to fit in the rudder depressions, you will be fine.

If you have something that "has" to go on the rudder,,,,well, you'll see. Something like a solid decal with the CAG colors alternated between the ribs on the rudders will only fit on one tail or the other.

"talking accuracy" is going out of fashion, so I will just say that "both are equally and exactly correct,,,,,,even though they don't match enough to interchange rudder decals", lol

If you are just painting the rudder,,,,don't worry about it, and chalk it up to "artistic design differences" between kit designers.

edit, oh and those Hobby Boss kits have "been coming" for so long that you will probably get all the Scooters built that you ever want before they actually get released

Edited by Rex
Link to post
Share on other sites

True enough about the Hobby Boss kits, lists vs reality and all that. Who knows when and if they'll become a reality!

Very interesting about the rudder difference! That would mess things up depending on if a rudder decal was made for a specific kit. Thankfully it won't be an issue for this build. To me the Hasegawa rudder appears to be in more accurate proportion, which could be swapped with a little work I think. Thats just my preference though, its not something that draws attention to itself.

Thanks for the info Rex!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...