Is Preshading worth it?

[plasticWerks_JL]

I came across an explanation of black basing (which is essentially a variation of pre-shading, go figure) at the following link some time ago, and actually used it (for the first time) on my OA-4M in the Skyhawk GB:

http://doogsmodels.com/2014/07/03/technique-black-basing/

Edited August 17, 2015 by plasticWerks_JL

[plasticWerks_JL]

That being said, I don't like the way preshading does it...at least not in the way the heavy patchwork, black out every panel line, method works...

...it just looks bad...too uniform.

Still, if the final results look like this, it's really "improper" use of technique, and not really the technique itself. That said, if someone wants the quilted look, then that's just down to different tastes, and shouldn't really be the focus of the debate.

I tend to agree that most modelers want to recreate reality in their builds, and some can go too heavy handed (including myself here). If the builder is pleased with the results, so be it, but if asked for constructive criticism, they should be encouraged to try other techniques in combination, and keep improving.

Edited August 17, 2015 by plasticWerks_JL

[jinmmydel]

Banana, check the link to Matt's (Doog's Models) page above...it gives the basic rundown. I am on other forums with him, and that's where I picked up the technique from. He gives a great explanation. I simply haven't done an article on it myself on my page because I didn't want to just copy him.

I totally understood what you meant and didn't think you were being lazy at all...I was thinking more in general terms with my comments about "worth it."

Of course we are all just dealing with opinions here. I've seen the typical pre-shading panel lines turned into spectacular looking paintjobs, but other steps are involved there too, and they don't leave it uniform. It is all about what the builder likes...that's all that should matter. I like the black basing (which yeah is a type of pre-shading) because it leaves more tonal variation across the entire surface and not just panel lines.

[Banana11000]

Thanks guys! Checking out that lovely link now!

Cheers,

Colin

[Banana11000]

I just read through DOOGS' article. That was a ton of help! Really cleared things up for me! Thank you plasticwerks_JL! Just one question, when you are adding the almost mottling thing, do you do it with a lighter or darker colour than your topcoat?

Cheers,

Colin

[jinmmydel]

I use the same color. The "mottle" is added with a typically thinned mixture of paint and applied. The next coat...the topcoat...is mixed extremely thin. It's close to 20/80 paint/thinner. This layer is slowly build up over the mottle...but it's the same color...just thinned enough that it covers slowly.

You could easily use lightened and darkened mixes of the base color to vary it even more. I've tried it and thought it was a bit easier to just use post shading and filters.

[plasticWerks_JL]

I use the same color

Seconded

in my experiments, I didn't even thin the top coats all that much more than the first, I just applied them a bit lighter from the airbrush. I'm definitely going to give it a try on my next build, though

Edited August 17, 2015 by plasticWerks_JL

[Joel_W]

As I said previously, I don't like the traditional methods of pre-shading, for the simple reason that way to many modelers now do every single panel line, then apply the top color to the point where the pre-shading has the effect of a checkerboard over the entire aircraft. That is completely unrealistic. Sure, you can find examples of real aircraft that have that effect but only over portions of the fuselage. That's my point. Selective use of any shading effect is necessary to try to achieve realism.

I've been experimenting little by little with various methods, even though I still haven't used my basic plan on a aircraft model as yet. I do however vary my primer depending on the color coat. Lighter colors get a darker primer coat, and dark color coats get a lighter primer, so that applying the primary color coat lightly and unevenly, yields a worn looking paint surface. My primary primer colors are Mig Primer Gray, Tamiya Nato Black, which is a dark Gray/Black. Generally, my primary top coat colors are applied as lighter and darker, with the lighter color being the base, and the darker tone as a random blotchy pattern within various panels. That variation of darker middles and lighter parameters is the exact opposite of what pre-shading achieves, and is why I don't use that "tool". The darker tone or tones can also be applied to recessed areas for a shadow modulation effect. That effect I'll grant you is more prevalent on armor then aircraft. Once decaling is completed and sealed, I start my weathering with a enamel pin wash. I've gone from black to burnt and Raw Umber thinned to the point where it's a more translucent effect that a solid recessed line. Seal, and then continue with other weathering applications if so desired.

As for the mottled primer effect, I do like that concept, but haven't tried it as yet.

Joel

[Thommo]

I had a little crack at black-basing this arvo as a test run prior to letting loose on my current build, and just before starting on the Friday arvo beers

The black is Tamiya black gloss (X1) with Tamyia flat base added (as I'm running short on flat black) - it came up even better than the real flat black (XF1). I tried a thinner coat on the left of the wing, darker on the right, then oversprayed in patchy effect with the sky grey colour i mixed (Tamiya dark sea grey + flat white) for my Gladiator, then blended that a little with a thinner mix of the sky grey.

I think it worked best in the circled area, where I'd done a darker black base coat. I feel encouraged enough to try it on the real build now....but tomorrow with no beer on board :D

[Joel_W]

Thommo,

Your Black Basing looks really good. It's going to be the next "in" procedure here on ARC at this rate. Like I said, I use darker bases for lighter top colors, and lighter bases for darker top colors. It's the mottling effect that really adds so much to the technique. One of thing that I've been experimenting with, is masking entire panels which changes the top color coat for that panel. I've used that technique with Alcad as an effective way to do panels.

Joel

[Thommo]

Thommo,

Your Black Basing looks really good. It's going to be the next "in" procedure here on ARC at this rate. Like I said, I use darker bases for lighter top colors, and lighter bases for darker top colors. It's the mottling effect that really adds so much to the technique. One of thing that I've been experimenting with, is masking entire panels which changes the top color coat for that panel. I've used that technique with Alcad as an effective way to do panels.

Joel

To be quite honest Joel, it is a pretty labour-intensive process, not sure I'll do it again. Your approach is what I usually do and simpler. I also do the panel masking thing.

[jinmmydel]

To be quite honest Joel, it is a pretty labour-intensive process, not sure I'll do it again. Your approach is what I usually do and simpler. I also do the panel masking thing.

I blogged about this very thing a couple days ago, if interested clicky ---> Invest in your Hobby Pt. 3 - Time

[Thommo]

:crying2:/>/>/>/> I blogged about this very thing a couple days ago, if interested clicky ---> Invest in your Hobby Pt. 3 - Time

It's ebb and flow with me.

Some builds I'm patient and putt along doing a little at a time. Others I just want to get to my fav bit - spraying the camo :D

If my b*stard of an Aztek was behaving, I'd probably be more inclined to try the technique again, because the result so far is very satisfying. Time for an Iwata methinks.

Also, the paint job on this little b*gger is the toughest I've ever done - two underside colours, one fuselage side and lower top wing colour, two top-wing and top fuselage colours, two upper lower wing colours. Crazy stuff.

Anyway, I'm not beaten yet. Stripped the Aztek again (warranty voided - again), cleaned all the paint out of the guts, remains to be seen how it performs now.

No one who runs an Aztek is lazy

Edited August 23, 2015 by Thommo

[falcon20driver]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I got curious...

I'm putting together a Tamiya 1/48 P-51B as a fun build and remembered this thread. I like pre-shading that is done with restraint, not every single line but selective shading. I also wanted to try black basing. So....I painted the entire plane black, then pre-shaded with a very light grey. After the first coat of neutral grey on the belly, the results are promising. Hopefully I can get the Olive Drab on next week then get photos up.

[cag_200]

Looks nice the pre or post shadings but almost everybody forgets to shade the decal markings ?

:)

Edited August 5, 2016 by cag_200

[Thommo]

Looks nice the pre or post shadings but almost everybody forgets to shade the decal markings ?

:)/>

Yes, this is an issue that has bugged me for a long time. Sometimes I spray the larger markings on so I can tone down the colours rather than using the fresh looking decals over a highly weathered paint job. Or I'll spray a very dilute mix of some other colour over the decals to fade them a bit.

And then sometimes I've seen photos of very battered a/c, but with some of the markings looking quite fresh (probably recently repainted) like on the Malta Spit I did.

[krow113]

All of it is "worth it" as long as the results are acceptable.

This one was base colours , pre-shaded , translucent base colours , post- shaded , markings painted , tempura washed , oil pin washed , metal colour dry brushed then dullcoated:

Edited August 6, 2016 by krow113

[falcon20driver]

How do you guys weather the decals?

[Thommo]

A strong pre-shading candidate (I'm currently building the rather ordinary Italeri 1/72 version).

[86Sabreboy1]

Late to the party here. For what it's worth I teach preshading and post tinting in my demos and workshops. This process has served me well as I am a category winner at the IPMS nationals. I'm not saying that to brag, just that someone other than me seems to feel my efforts have merit and awarded accordingly. Rather than showing individual pics, to better explain my technique here is my video series on the subject-

www.grexairbrush.com/MAS

[Collin]

How do you guys weather the decals?

Build your kit, paint and decal...then semi-flat them all together...THEN start your weathering (washes/filters). I find that folks weather right after painting, then decal...which doesn't match they way an operational aircraft would weather.

Cheers

Collin

[Collin]

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/160810-N-QN175-056.JPG

Nice reference shot of insignia/marking weathering.

[82Whitey51]

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/160810-N-QN175-056.JPG

Nice reference shot of insignia/marking weathering.

Great photo...boy do I miss working in 12C.

[Thommo]

I find that folks weather right after painting, then decal...which doesn't match they way an operational aircraft would weather.

Cheers

Collin

I never do that. Makes no sense. If I'm pre-shading, my process would go something like:

Prime - pre-shade - paint base colours - fade or post-shade base colours - gloss coat - decals - panel line wash with acrylic sludge wash (including dragging some over the decals and decal panel lines to dirty them up a bit) - perhaps a light overspray of dust colour or base colours to blend in decals a bit - oil stains with oil paint perhaps - seal with flat coat - run around house with model strafing the neurotic cat ;)

[sabre45]

Nice, this topic. If you have a airbrush, it is easy to preshade, But I only have brushes, no airbrush, So I have a small problem.....

But in the real world aircraft pinter does first preshade.

How to solve the "problem " without a airbrush?

Han, Holland EU