A-6E vs Libyan Navy 1986

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Anyone know what the actual loadouts for the A-6's that took out a few Libyan patrol corvettes in April '86 were? I know it involved lots of Rockeyes, and a few Harpoons, but as far as the actual loadouts, I have no clue.

VA-55 is what I'm especially hoping for.

Thanks!

[HS-4Grandson]

I do believe AOA Decals has come out with a sheet for that timeframe you are referring too.

Stanton

[Finn]

Not the actual load but what some flew with while in the area:

http://www.usscoralsea.net/images/DN-SC-87-00480.jpeg

empty MER, 3 Rockeyes on MER, c/l tank, Harpoon and an AIM-9.

Jari

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Dang! A 'winder on an Intruder! Was that common for operations in that area at that time??

Also, I'm surprised to see BOTH Rockeyes and a Harpoon; guess I was under the impression that they didn't like mixing loads THAT much.

[Finn]

The mixed load was basically for anything that comes up, switch out the empty MER and lose one of the Rockeyes and you could add a GBU-12 and still be within limits for returning to the carrier.

edit: Yes the A-6 can carry Sidewinders:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/A-6A-CVA-61_with_AIM-9D_NAN6-68.jpg

http://www.usscoralsea.net/images/DN-ST-87-00061.jpeg

http://www.95thallweatherattack.com/lizard-photo-library/lizard-ordies/intruder-with-sidewinders-b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/68/194159042_a996e483d5.jpg

and fire them:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/A-6E_VA-75_fires_Sidewinder_1989.jpeg

Jari

Edited August 15, 2015 by Finn

[achterkirch]

I had a student teacher in middle school that was a BN for VA-55 he said that they loaded out rocketed and harpoons. Not sure the exact configuration

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Boy, I have to say I'm really liking the idea of seriously mixed load like that. Beats the heck out of loading 24 iron bombs on a quartet of MER's any day!

[Michael A.]

The mixed load of Harpoon missiles and Rockeye cluster bombs was, I believe, the result of lessons learned when A-6Es from VA-55 attacked and sank a Libyan operated Nanuchka-class corvette in the Gulf of Sidra. The Nanuchka was first struck at range with a Harpoon missile which completely disabled the vessel but did not sink it. A second strike using Rockeye cluster bombs was necessary to finish off and actually sink the vessel. Loading an A-6E with both Harpoon and Rockeyes allows the aircrew that conducts the initial strike at range to finish off their target if necessary without an assist from someone else. If I am not mistaken this action by VA-55 aircraft was the first ‘War Shot’ utilization of the Harpoon.

[SCOUT712]

A bit later, therefore might be a bit off topic. Operation Praying Mantis 1988.

Here you'll see a nice mixed load out.

Cheers

Michael

[Collin]

Jolly: This is probably too much info but it's Saturday morning, nobody is awake yet and I am still on my first cup of coffee.

ROCKEYE and Harpoon were a good mix for ASuW missions which still allowed bring-aboard weight limits to be observed at the end of the typical 1+45 cycle. Mike above is correct that this was the first real combat use of Harpoon and it did uncover some problems. ROCKEYE is not a "ship sinking" weapon like a general purpose bomb/GBU or other high yield weapon. It's a weapon that puts out a large pattern of munitions that will (hopefully) blind and shut down a surface vessel regarding deckside weapons and sensors (weapons/exposed guns/SSM's). While the munitions in ROCKEYE can penetrate some armor, it won't sink a ship/hole the hull just by it's small munitions alone. The plan is in a low threat environment you could drop ROCKEYE on a surface contact with some chance of success and stop the threat, or create enough damage that the ship will start blowing itself up (think of all those SSM's with warheads on the deck). A-6's, Hornets, S-3's and F-14's carried ROCKEYE as ASuW/SuCAP loads through the 2000's until GBU-12/AGM-65F became the best options.

Here is a snippet of info for the timeframe I think you are interested in:

24 Mar 1986: Libyan missiles were fired at U.S. Naval forces operating in the Gulf of Sidra. This action precipitated a retaliation against Libya by squadrons from Saratoga (CV 60), America (CV 66) and Coral Sea (CV 43). VA-85s A-6Es conducted a follow-up attack with Rockeye bombs on a Libyan Combattante II G-class fast attack missile craft that had been hit by a Harpoon missile fired by a VA-34 aircraft. The attack resulted in the sinking of the Combattante II. VA-85 aircraft also attacked a Nanuchka II class missile corvette with Rockeyes, damaging the corvette.

25 Mar 1986: VA-55 attacked a Nanuchka with Rockeyes, damaging but not stopping the corvette. A VA-85 aircraft then launched a Harpoon against the corvette which resulted in its sinking.

The lesson learned out of Lybia (besides that we had to tweak the Harpoon, which we did and I flew those variants) was the need for a "finish off weapon" without the use of Harpoon in constrained waters. The push for SKIPPER (1000# GBU weapon with a bolted on SHRIKE motor...not a good weapon) came about and you saw those loaded and shot in the Persian Gulf during Operation Praying Mantis, so you can stand off at range and engage (nobody was keen on shooting Harpoon in the Gulf back then). This all came together and really made the push for the IR Maverick variant tweaked for ASuW...the AGM-65F. You didn't get those on aircraft until after DS1, and only on the A-6E SWIP birds, Hornets and later the S-3B Vikings with the Maverick Plus upgrade (and 4 Vikings with quick fit kits). AGM-65F, GBU-12, and ROCKEYE were the preferred ASuW loads when I was cruising those waters and advising CAG on fighting that particular maritime fight.

For your timeframe all the A-6 squadrons were talking and trading notes...so your loadout options will be closely grouped. Harpoon (only one since they are heavy/high drag count), TER with ROCKEYE (2, maybe three) is probably your best bet. There really were no close diverts back in the Lybia ops, so they had to watch their weapons loads Vs. fuel to make cycle times, which in the Persian Gulf wasn't as much a factor since there typically was USAF tanker support and divert options avail (that's why you see slightly larger SuCAP loads like http://www.oocities.org/pentagon/bunker/7316/ordnance.jpg). Plus the fact that cycle times came down to the 1+30/1+15 timeframe as more Hornets came into the AirWing.

Lybian ops and loadout questions seem to arise on multiple boards from time to time. I need to walk over to the archives on the Navy yard and ask to dig around their photos, for that timeframe, to see what they have. I am sure the "snoopies" took lots of photos during this timeframe (and Praying Mantis as well) that can give us concrete answers.

Oh Yeah.... throw a AIM-9L on your A-6E as well...because that just ups the "cool" factor...and is legit for the timeframe.

Time for another cup of coffee.

Collin

Edited August 15, 2015 by Collin

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Thanks for all this! This is gonna be a fun project (30th anniversary coming up next spring!).

I guess the only thing I don't understand is, was the mixed load of Rockeyes and a Harpoon a result of lessons learned during this action? Meaning, a VA-55 bird crippled a corvette with Rockeyes only, then a VA-85 bird had to finish it with a Harpoon. Wouldn't that imply that the first aircraft only had Rockeyes, and that's why a different aircraft was dispatched to finish it with different weaponry?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy

[mrvark]

I have a picture of a VA-55 TRAM A-6E (AK-501, 161677) from that cruise taken by Fred Drummond. It was loaded with an AIM-9M loaded on a LAU-7 mounted to the pylon with an ADU-299 adapter on station 1, BRU-41(?) MERs loaded on stations 2/4/5 and a AERO 1 fuel tank on station 3. The MERs on the inboard stations (2/4) were loaded with a pair of Mk 20s mounted on the bottom racks, the right outboard MER was empty.

[Collin]

Thanks for all this! This is gonna be a fun project (30th anniversary coming up next spring!).

I guess the only thing I don't understand is, was the mixed load of Rockeyes and a Harpoon a result of lessons learned during this action? Meaning, a VA-55 bird crippled a corvette with Rockeyes only, then a VA-85 bird had to finish it with a Harpoon. Wouldn't that imply that the first aircraft only had Rockeyes, and that's why a different aircraft was dispatched to finish it with different weaponry?

Legit question. I heard stories that some squadrons weren't trained on Harpoon yet, and limited numbers of Harpoons. Harpoon was somewhat new to the A-6 community and it's use and tactics were being exercised. You also probably run into the fact that with limited Harpoon's, some aircraft launched on stories without one, remember there were multiple carriers out there (USS SARATOGA, CORAL SEA, and AMERICA I believe). Having worked dual carrier ops, you work out the SuCAP plan among the AirWings and trade off CAPs. Aircraft loadouts would probably vary between Harpoon and non-Harpoon CAPs and CAPs supported by Hornets (with ROCKEYE, never saw a Hornet during that timeframe with Harpoon). Without that super detailed info, there are a lot of questions raised like yours. I also heard that since Harpoon was new, and they had low threat targets to shoot at, it was sort of like "hey, lets try these out" type of deal. I can surely see the decision makers/aircrew making the call to shoot a Harpoon at a disabled target with a very simple and low threat set up to exercise the system (take your time, perfect set up...and you can't miss type of deal). Harpoon is tricky in that respect and you really need to know how the weapon and seeker work to avoid hitting something you don't want (it's fire and forget). I spent a lot of time working that stuff out.

Cheers

Collin

Edited August 15, 2015 by Collin

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Okay, so, chances are, if I'm doing a -55 bird, it would probably have been Rockeyes only for those particular ops?

Although...since I'm including the kill markings on the bird, could go with the ultra "neat" addition of the Harpoon for ops after the missions in question.... Ah, decisions....

Jeez, but I love ARC....

[Whiskey]

Here's what the National Archives turned up:

Central Mediterranean Sea. Attack Squadron 55 (VA-55) ordnancemen lift an AIM-9L Sidewinder missile onto an underwing launch rack aboard an A6E Intruder aircraft aboard the aircraft carrier USS CORAL SEA (CV 43)

My link

Aviation ordnancemen from Attack Squadron 55 (VA-55) attach a bomb rack to the wing of an A-6E Intruder aircraft on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS CORAL SEA (CV 43). The aircraft is being prepared for an air strike against targets in Libya

My link

That was only two pics. Here is the link that gives you the search results, I just typed in VA-55 and viola, gives you mainly pictures from that exact time era.

My link

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Yep, that's definitely 'WAY better than what I found with Google.

Hey, on the second photo, loading the MER, I know it could be the lighting, but is the one they're handling a lighter shade of gray than the one already on station 1? I always love the chance to do Navy stuff from the early 80's when it was possible to have mixes of whites and grays on the ordnance due to the slow implementation of TPS paint, like AIM-9's with white bodies and gray fins, etc. So, any chance this MER is a couple degrees lighter in the paint?

[Finn]

Andrew check the 86 era pics here:

http://www.usscoralsea.net/pics1980s1.php

Here is one from there showing they still had some white MERs:

http://www.usscoralsea.net/images/DN-ST-86-03978.jpeg

Jari

[Michael A.]

VA-55 – Action in the Gulf of Sidra

Combat Aircraft, Vol. 16, No. 8. ‘Ship Strike’ article on page 70 answers additional questions about the Gulf of Sidra incident. I picked up a copy only this morning. Apparently VA-55 is credited with the second combat use of the Harpoon attack and Rockeyes are only mentioned as being part of the onboard weapons available. No mention of use during this attack. Recommended reading for all.