Info Wanted

[11bee]

Folks,

Just looking for any info out there on the US Army Hueys that were assigned to 4/228 AVN BN, circa 1990-91. At the time, this unit was temporarily deployed to Soto Cano AB in Honduras. Specifically what markings (if any) these helos carried. Not a lot of pics of these Hueys out there and the ones that I've found don't show enough detail. Curious what they had besides the generic markings? Any S/N on the nose, any unit markings?

I think I've got the general configuration of the aircraft dialed in (sugar scoop, ALQ-144, standard M-60 mounts and HF antenna) but still need some help on the markings.

This is for an upcoming project to replicate the 4/228 Huey shot down in El Salvador.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Edited September 15, 2015 by 11bee

[salvador001]

Hi John, this will be an interesting project, cant wait to see it.

In regarding to your inquire, i only have a few photos of the 4/228th i already post in the forum, but on Facebook, there is a Huey fan page and a lot of members served with the 4/228th during that time, they post a lot of photos, you might want to check it out, or if you want i could gather all the information and pass it to you here.

Greetings.

Rod.

Edited September 15, 2015 by salvador001

[11bee]

Hi John, this will be an interesting project, cant wait to see it.

In regarding to your inquire, i only have a few photos of the 4/228th i already post in the forum, but on Facebook, there is a Huey fan page and a lot of members served with the 4/228th during that time, they post a lot of photos, you might want to check it out, or if you want i could gather all the information and pass it to you here.

Greetings.

Rod.

I'm not a huge FB guy but it sounds interesting, I'll check out the page and see if anyone can help. I looked for a page for the 4/228 but couldn't find anything. Think this unit ended up being re-designated or shut down shortly after. Maybe I'll get lucky, still need to find the S/N of the Huey that was lost. Worse comes to worse, I'll file a FOIA request but would prefer not to.

Thanks for the info Rod.

[salvador001]

John, a friend of mine took this photo at Ilopango in 1985, it is a 4/228th huey, check the art in the sliding door, now we know some birds had unique markings.

Ill see what more info i can get.

Enjoy.

Rod.

[11bee]

John, a friend of mine took this photo at Ilopango in 1985, it is a 4/228th huey, check the art in the sliding door, now we know some birds had unique markings.

Ill see what more info i can get.

Enjoy.

Rod.

Nice picture! Not familiar with that unit marking, 4/228 had a winged horse as it's emblem. I need to add the solid jump doors to my list. I think every 4/228 Huey I've seen has this feature. The only other item I'm not 100% sure on would be the Improved Particle Separator. Pretty sure this was standard by '90.

Thanks again,

John

Edited September 15, 2015 by 11bee

[salvador001]

Hi John, found this pic of a 4/228th Huey in 1988. Check the IPS, the jump door with window and the different roof antenna position. I think they were not standard, some were different.

Another thing i noticed, dont know if its just me or the bird doesnt have the UNITED STATES ARMY in the boom??

Rod.

[11bee]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for those pics, interesting note on the antenna placement. I'm guessing that the US Army markings were just faded to the point where you can't notice them in the pic. I posted a request for info on the Huey FB page, hopefully I'll get some help through that request.

John

[Loach Driver]

I had a quick look at the few photos I have from a magazine type article on the 45th Aviation Battalion (Nat Guard Spec Ops) Hueys, which flew in Honduras in 1987. Interestingly they don't seem to have been fitted with the sugar-scoop exhaust but do seem to have the same roof-top aerials as featured on the Hueys above. Their Hueys don't appear to have been fitted with the clothes-line antenna but some do have a "hockey-stick" antenna under the tailboom, about midway between the fuselage join and tail.

I'd guess the CIA Hueys used in Honduras were similar or identical to the Hueys photographed above and would also have been devoid of any markings, possibly including the tail numbers.

LD.

[11bee]

I had a quick look at the few photos I have from a magazine type article on the 45th Aviation Battalion (Nat Guard Spec Ops) Hueys, which flew in Honduras in 1987. Interestingly they don't seem to have been fitted with the sugar-scoop exhaust but do seem to have the same roof-top aerials as featured on the Hueys above. Their Hueys don't appear to have been fitted with the clothes-line antenna but some do have a "hockey-stick" antenna under the tailboom, about midway between the fuselage join and tail.

I'd guess the CIA Hueys used in Honduras were similar or identical to the Hueys photographed above and would also have been devoid of any markings, possibly including the tail numbers.

LD.

Hi LD,

I'm always on the lookout for "special" aircraft, do you happen to have any additional info or pics on Agency (or other organizations) Hueys that were flying in Central America in the 80-90's time frame?

With regard to the sugar-scoop, I don't think it was considered mandatory in this area until the FMLN and the Nicaraguan military acquired MANPADS and started shooting down some aircraft.

At one time, there was a website operated by a guy who called himself "Sniper" that had some great pics of helos in this area, including a couple of a CIA MD500. Alas, it's been down for a year or so...

[salvador001]

The CIA Hueys used in ES were painted CARC and had El Salvadoran AF markings, there were only 2, and both had all the ASE gear on. They were operated by american pilots and crew.

Im still looking for photos, they are hard to find, kinda classified.

Rod.

[Whiskey]

Here's what I have been able to dig up so far as I didn't search too hard. I know for a fact that in the last two years I came across an article or picture of that exact Huey you are looking for specifically. I'm sure if I have time I may be able to find it.

This is an awesome pic of a 227 bird in Honduras. Notice the "First Team" patch on the nose.

UH-1 Iroquois helicopters from the 227th Aviation Battalion, 1ST Cavalry Division, transport Honduran troops during Exercise Granadero

Three 1ST Cavalry Division UH-1 Iroquois helicopters are parked at Cucuyagua airfield during Exercise GRANADERO

Salvadoran soldiers run to board UH-1 Iroquois helicopters from the 227th Aviation Battalion, 1ST Cavalry Division, during Exercise GRANADERO

My lHonduran troops exit from a US Army UH-1 Iroquois helicopter while practicing helicopter assault tactics with members of the 7th Special Forces during Exercise

LA Times UH-1 crash in Honduras

US Army Huey crash list

Interestingly enough this website actually does not mention anything about a crash in March of 1988. May still be somewhat useful.

This LA Times article may be more helpful.

Comayagua Honduras US Army Huey

Huey crash video

This one was really interesting but it probably isn't specific for you.

[Loach Driver]

This article from the LA Times mentions unmarked CIA Hueys as well as 500Ds at Aguacate in Honduras.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-04-03/news/mn-2414_1_contras

LD.

P.S. 11bee, I have those 500D photos saved from that website if you want them reposted.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Loach Driver

[11bee]

This article from the LA Times mentions unmarked CIA Hueys as well as 500Ds at Aguacate in Honduras.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-04-03/news/mn-2414_1_contras

LD.

P.S. 11bee, I have those 500D photos saved from that website if you want them reposted.

I'd love to see those 500D pics if you have them. Gotta get in the habit of saving stuff like this, you never know when a website is going to vanish.

Whiskey, thanks for those pics and links. Looks like they were mostly earlier operations but they were interesting nonetheless. If you come across any 4/228 Hueys circa 90-91, please feel free to share.

[salvador001]

John, a friend of mine who was a pilot in the Salvadoran AF told me the 4/228th hueys started to use the ALQ-144 until 1990, when the FMLN shot down several FAS aircraft with SAM, including an AC-47, OA-37B and UH-1M. They were borrowed from the UH-60s they had in Honduras. There is a big photo in the Salvadoran AF museum of a 4/228th huey with the jammer installed parked at Ilopango in 1990-91, ill see if i can get it to you.

Rod.

Edited September 22, 2015 by salvador001

[salvador001]

John, did you saw all the information and photos they have posted on the huey fan page on facebook? If not, check it out!

Rod.

[11bee]

John, did you saw all the information and photos they have posted on the huey fan page on facebook? If not, check it out!

Rod.

I posted a request on the "UH-1 Huey Helicopter" FB page back in mid-Sept. Got a few replies but no pics or detailed info. The site is a great resource for Huey fans but if you are referring to my specific request for info, no luck...

Am I missing something? I'm not a huge FB person.

[salvador001]

Yes you are John, they have uploaded lately a lot of photos of 4/228th, theres a guy who was a pilot in that unit and has tons of photos, you should write him.

Rod.

[11bee]

Yes you are John, they have uploaded lately a lot of photos of 4/228th, theres a guy who was a pilot in that unit and has tons of photos, you should write him.

Rod.

Not to sound even denser than I apparently already am but how can I find those pics? I scrolled back a week on that page, didn't see anything. Nothing was posted to my original request (at least that I can see).

I mentioned this to one of my kids, she laughed at me. LOL, Starting to feel old....

Edited October 7, 2015 by 11bee

[salvador001]

I know, theres some times the photos just dissapear, ill try to get them all together and if you like ill send them to your email.

Rod.

[11bee]

I know, theres some times the photos just dissapear, ill try to get them all together and if you like ill send them to your email.

Rod.

If it's not a big problem that would be great. I'll go back onto the page tonight. Love to chat with that guy from the unit.

Thanks very much for all the help Rod.

[11bee]

I think I found most of those posts. Good stuff. I'll keep digging through them.

Pretty interesting. "Grey Birds", CIA 212's and regarding a post about Camp Blackjack (AKA Camp Pickett): "Is that where they were hiding the Cobras that weren't supposed to be in-country?".

I think there is still a good deal of info about those ops that hasn't made it out into the public domain yet.

Edited October 10, 2015 by 11bee

[salvador001]

Glad u found the photos John.

El Salvador was going to receive 12 AH-1S cobras in 1991, maybe those were the ones hiding in Honduras. I was told this Cobras were PA-NG.

There were no spare parts for the UH-1M anymore, so the US offered the cobras, they even send parts from the Navy and Marines version of the M. The peace was signed in 1992 and the order for the cobras was cancelled.

Rod.

Edited October 10, 2015 by salvador001

[rotorwash]

John,

I found these two pics of UH-1Hs from B Co. 4-228th in El Salvador from Dan McClinton. Rod reminded me that I should post these for you because they have the ALQ-144. Hope they are of interest.

Ray

[Loach Driver]

Great photos, Ray. Those Hueys must be some of the highest-spec UH-1Hs deployed by any regular U.S. Army unit.

LD.

[11bee]

Thanks Ray, those are pretty cool pictures. Greatly appreciate them.

Some pretty unique Hueys, A few observations -

- Looks like these helos might have the APR-39 radar warning antennas fitted. Most Army UH-1's just had sheet metal covers over the antenna openings. The covers were painted with the same CARC as the rest of the helo. These Hueys look like they have the actual antennas fitted. If so, very uncommon.

- I assume that one Huey had a replacement greenhouse panel fitted (although it looks like a second machine has something similar)? I saw pics like that of Vietnam Hueys, no time to paint the frame, it was just installed as is. Never saw a modern US Army UH-1 look like that.

- What is that grey antenna on the cabin roof of that one Huey?

- It looks like these Hueys have some sort of light-ish colored fitting directly below the pilot's door. Any idea what that is?

- What's up with the crude "US" in the cargo door windows? Only thing I can think of was that this was used after Col Pickett's UH-1 was shot down, maybe as a way to differentiate US Hueys from Salvadoran machines? You would think they would have painted on a US flag or something a bit more visible?

- Same unit, different interior seating configurations. One has the troop seats in line with the gunner's seats, the other has the more common configuration.

- Looks like the tip of the lower wire strike fitting is painted a different color - maybe orange?

Thanks again for posting these Ray, you da man!

So.... any tidbits on a new Huey model? My US-2 Tracker is finally done after > 2 years of work. I'm definitely ready for a new project.

Edited November 11, 2015 by 11bee