Jennings Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 http://doogsmodels.com/2015/09/19/the-problem-with-panel-line-shading/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 http://doogsmodels.com/2015/09/19/the-problem-with-panel-line-shading/ +1 Pet peeve of mine (that and representing wartime NMF finishes as shiny, chrome-like silver). Some of those examples he posted (especially the A-4 and Bf-109) are just too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I learnt about the black basing 1 build back and will be using it from here on out. Its easier, more realistic and personally more enjoyable. I think panel lines are a trend in modeling just like any trend in anything else. I've only been in the hobby for a few years, and as I look to improve i follow the techniques of the builders who are much better than myself. Initially, that was pre-shading. As a newer modeller I saw a way to improve my finish, its what I saw and its what I copied. Now that the one gentleman here on ARC took time to discuss how he black bases I've swapped. I think in time pre-shading will go out of fashion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChippyWho Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) And HOW he does! This is a 'pet' of mine that I do my best to keep it buttoned about. But since we're here...! Thanks to the tireless Shade Fairy, so many completed builds look to me like caricatures -you know, the kind of thing you get with those awful tasteless pieces of porcelain (some very expensive, but still only fit for minor prizes at fairground arcades) where the old tramp, the grizzled shepherd or terminally 'cute' infant looks as though a demented fiend has used every kind of make-up in the box on their cheeks, and didn't stop there: nooo, he/she went on to sump oil, artist's washes, soot, mildew, and finished off with , in the utterly bizarre belief that it all adds an endearing 'character' to their luckless subjects.True, it varies in degree -but not principle. Real-world subjects weather and dirty-up from the paint outwards, an do so pretty much at random. If you want to build a cartoon, it's your nickel, but the best work is always done with subtlety and finesse. Ya don't need that extra splat! The Doog guy should be compulsory viewing for modellers of all disciplines (OK, Auto guys are exempt -for now!) Edited September 20, 2015 by ChippyWho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RKic Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 ha! I've been singing this song for years. A few years ago somebody here said my E.E. Lightning wasn't realistic because it didn't have preshaded panel lines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 ha! I've been singing this song for years. A few years ago somebody here said my E.E. Lightning wasn't realistic because it didn't have preshaded panel lines. Didn't you know reality is unrealistic? Anywho. Regardless of position he makes a good case and a solidly describes what he means. I don't always preshade panel lines. for the most part I just go panel by panel with the same color. I outline and then fill, just using different opacity with the same color. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yeah, no aircraft should have pershading because it's just not realistic. Look at this model at the back. WAY overdone! That rivet detail is too much as well...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Justicebringer Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Been reading Doogs blogs for a bit now. Guy is on point and has a "not a single f$%# is given" attitude which is refreshing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DoogsATX Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yeah, no aircraft should have pershading because it's just not realistic. Look at this model at the back. WAY overdone! That rivet detail is too much as well...... Question - did you read my blog post? Because that's not at all what I say. In fact, my post includes this Spanish Hornet with WAY more accentuated panel lines. To sum up my position on the matter: In short, my issue with all the panel shading nonsense is that it only pays attention to a specific feature of the aircraft’s surface, at the expense of the rest. As nice as the rest of the work may be, it’s a distracting and ultimately detracting element. Pay attention to the whole of the aircraft, and how all of its elements come together in a cohesive fashion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yeah, no aircraft should have pershading because it's just not realistic. Look at this model at the back. WAY overdone! That rivet detail is too much as well...... Are you really saying that the aircraft above looks the same as some of those "plaid" examples from the blog. Plus on a scale model most of the details on that Hornet would be invisible. How big is a panel line gap or rivet head in 1/48th? Assuming a rivet head is 10mm (I have no ideal how big they are), in 48th that equates to 0.20 mm If you have the time and skills to accurately replicate hundreds of 0.2mm rivets, have at it but I'm guessing most folks won't be able to even see them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Topic of the year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Realistic be damned, I like the way washes and weathering looks....panel lines and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Realistic be damned, I like the way washes and weathering looks....panel lines and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jinmmydel Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Question - did you read my blog post? No. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jinmmydel Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Glad to see this one got shared here too. This blog post has gone viral and I've read a lot of responses to it all over the place. I must admit I'm a bit surprised by the amount of people who say they agree given how in vogue pre-shading seems to be with actual builds you see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DoogsATX Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Realistic be damned, I like the way washes and weathering looks....panel lines and all. I'm a big fan of weathering, too! I'm also a fan of adding a bit of accent to panel lines. What I'm not a fan of is panel line shading that makes it look like the panel lines are wearing raccoon makeup, while the rest of the paint is clean (or relatively so). I use panel line washes on every single one of my aircraft builds. But I try to keep them from being overpowering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 That rivet detail is too much as well...... Technically there are some rivets in there...but if a rivet has a black ring around it probably needs to be looked at to see if it is loose. Most of what you're seeing are stainless steel fasteners (screws) holding the panels down. On a US Navy aircraft they should be painted over. HTH Spongebob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barneydhc82 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 A few years ago a very fine modeller built a 1:48 scale AC-130 gunship with tons of scratch built detailing but the model was heavily pre-shaded to the point where it was a caricature of a model. Every panel line was shaded a scale two feet wide and yet it was voted best model aircraft at the IPMS Nationals. John later re[painted the model after severe criticism. Personally I prefer clean aircraft but will weather very lightly using pastel chalks and a Q-Tip. Paint chipping and exhaust stains and a bit of oil dripping from a cowling look good done in moderation. Barney http://www.barneysairforce.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darius at home Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Always thought pre-shading was unrealistic. Interesting results but in the end a needless effort. Excellent blog. Darius Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) A few years ago a very fine modeller built a 1:48 scale AC-130 gunship with tons of scratch built detailing but the model was heavily pre-shaded to the point where it was a caricature of a model. Every panel line was shaded a scale two feet wide and yet it was voted best model aircraft at the IPMS Nationals. Pre-shading was a trend. Just like mullets and Justin Bieber. Doesn't make it respectable but a while back, it was considered to be the correct way to finish an aircraft. Thankfully more rational minds have prevailed and this approach to finishing is going to join mullets and Justin in the "what the heck were they thinking" section of the history books. Now if we can just get people to tone down those chrome-like NMF finishes on their exhaust and gunpowder streaked P-51's, the world will truly be in a better place. If there are any mullet sporting, Bieber fans frequenting this thread, please accept my apologies for the above post. Edited September 20, 2015 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RKic Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 What doog is showing and what many of us are arguing is that subtlety goes a long way. Its really easy to overdo it, especially if you're just "following the steps" when it comes to weathering. Heck, I do it too. I messes up a lot of nice builds with dumb weathering. This is why 60% of my projects end up in the trash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I've only ever used pre-shading in cockpits and wheel-wells, to give a hint of depth and shadow. Never seen the need to do it on the exterior aircraft skin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CorsairMan Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Glad to see this one got shared here too. This blog post has gone viral..... Which was the likely intent... Ahh the anti preshade jihad. Is it September already?? Seems as though I've read more than enough of these posts over the years. It always seems to be the same justifications for and example pictures over and over. "Its not realistic" "its overdone" "its plaid...quilted...striped..." and "its too uniform" But its all just to say that you dont like the style. And that's about it. You don't like the way someone has executed their hobby. Like there is aa one true correct way to do things. Well, bully for you. But so what? Maybe some like the look? Maybe some are just finding out what an airbrush can do? Maybe some just don't have the time, interest or talent to go beyond a simple pre-shade? Maybe some don't like dirty weathered models? Maybe some just like to build a lot of models and not spend 20 months on one "realistic" build. All valid. All completely acceptable ways to finish a model. Ironic that next to the "preshade/postshade" threads there are the "hobby is dying" threads. Frankly, I think those who write "death to all preshading" or some other technique are the ones who ought to be mocked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Which was the likely intent... Ahh the anti preshade jihad. Ironic that next to the "preshade/postshade" threads there are the "hobby is dying" threads. Frankly, I think those who write "death to all preshading" or some other technique are the ones who ought to be mocked. Seems like a typical PC outlook. Everyone is a winner, everyones' model deserves first prize because to admit that a certain technique may not yield a realistic finish would be exclusionary and we certainly can't have that. If one can't handle a bit of criticism, maybe they shouldn't post their work online or enter a contest. Unless you post in a restricted forum like ARC's Display Case, you should expect comments on your work. I build my models the way I like. If someone has an issue with it, I take that into account. Maybe it's legit and I can learn something or maybe I feel it's not. Either way, I can accept their comments. I certainly wouldn't consider quitting the hobby because someone didn't like the way I finished my model. If someone opts to preshade the crap of their kit, I'm fine with that. I may not feel it yields the most accurate finish but whatever, it's their prerogative and I respect their decision. Quite honestly, I'll give a lot of the kits in that blog points for great airbrush work. Certainly better than what I'm capable of. Edited September 21, 2015 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thommo Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I pre-shade a lot, but it is quite easy to build up enough colour to make it subtle rather than panel-line patchwork. I also try a heap of random stuff as the mood takes me - drybrushing, overtones, washes, different colour panel line washes, painting some panels different colours, over-spraying dirty areas. A few of my attempts: I had a crack at black-basing on my current Gladiator build which works well, but IMO is just a more thorough type of pre-shading. Because most of my kits are mostly old 1/72 cheapies (Matchbox, Monogram etc), there's not so much at stake with experimenting. Edited September 21, 2015 by Thommo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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