AnthonyWan Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-time-a-tanker-saved-a-fighter-that-was-falling-apar-1733187406 Anyone know the specific jet and what unit it was from? Cool read... I have a cool diorama idea... -Anthony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 IIRC the jet was from Seymour-Johnson. I remember reading that in Air Force Times at the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Judging by the date, it's probably one from the 336th TFS, 4th TFW, from Seymour Johnson AFB as Jennings said. They were part of Crested Cap that year. (source: this page) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pookie Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What happened to the other F4s that needed to refuel in transit ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I got pretty good at tracking down former SJAFB pilots to bug them about their F-4s, so I took a look for Maj. Alexander, to see if he could tell us the serial number of the jet. Sadly, he passed away last January: http://grayfalcons.com/?p=1240 Looks like he had an exciting career even before the F-4 incident. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Lt Col Ralph Conlan was my AFROTC detachment commander at Embry-Riddle in the early 1980s, and had flown F-4Es at SJAFB. Not sure exactly when. He was one of the first USAF F-4C pilots back in the day. I believe I read where he'd passed away a few years ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Impressive, and kudos all around, but this: North Star began to actually tow Ghost’s Phantom for the final 160 miles to Gander, using nothing but the fueling boom. I really don't think you can "actually tow" an aircraft with a flying boom. Granted, I am much more familiar with probe and drogue systems, but I just don't see a flying boom as having bulletproof latches on it that that could hold a plane up, nor do I see the F-4's receptacle being bolted to the wing spar so strongly that it could support the load. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnthonyWan Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hmm so 336th TFS, 4th TFW, from Seymour Johnson AFB...anyone got an idea how we can narrow down on the specific jet? Good info all around...LanceB - I am a bit skeptical about that part too...But alas it's a good story, eh? :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) LanceB - I am a bit skeptical about that part too...But alas it's a good story, eh? :D/>/> It is - and I do not mean to take anything away from the crews involved. Personally I just feel when you start using "colorful" phrases as this writer did, it detracts from the actual events. Still, tankers are awesome: jabara.usafalibrary.com/files/6839_FilePath.doc (link downloads a Word .doc) Edited September 29, 2015 by LanceB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moose135 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I really don't think you can "actually tow" an aircraft with a flying boom. Granted, I am much more familiar with probe and drogue systems, but I just don't see a flying boom as having bulletproof latches on it that that could hold a plane up, nor do I see the F-4's receptacle being bolted to the wing spar so strongly that it could support the load. Actually, you can, in an emergency. The latches on the receiver's receptacle close onto the end of the boom nozzle, and normally will release when limits (side-to-side, fore-and-aft) are reached. In an emergency, you can use a method called Manual Boom Latching, where those limits are overridden, forcing the nozzle to remain in contact, and allowing you to tow the receiver if needed. As I said, it's for emergency use, and can damage both aircraft if not done properly, but yes, you can tow an aircraft, especially a fighter, from the boom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Actually, you can, in an emergency. The latches on the receiver's receptacle close onto the end of the boom nozzle, and normally will release when limits (side-to-side, fore-and-aft) are reached. In an emergency, you can use a method called Manual Boom Latching, where those limits are overridden, forcing the nozzle to remain in contact, and allowing you to tow the receiver if needed. As I said, it's for emergency use, and can damage both aircraft if not done properly, but yes, you can tow an aircraft, especially a fighter, from the boom. I stand corrected! As I said, I am more familiar with probe and drogue, and there isn't anything like that you can do with those AFAIK. When VMA-231 did their emergency deployment to Kuwait in the late summer of 1990, they flew non-stop and armed the whole way, and the weight of the aircraft with two gasbags, two 'winders, three Mk82 and loaded ammo pack and gun was such that they could never completely top off when tanking as when they got near to a full belly of gas the weight caused them to slow down and the planes backed themselves out of the basket - so they ended up doing more cycles on the tanker than they would have had they been lighter. Plus you can't tow someone with a hose, it would break..... Thanks for the scoop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 The Soviets experimented with an aircraft towing system similar to probe-and-drogue. Called 'Burlaki' (the slange name for human barge haulers) - the receiver aircraft (a modified MiG-15) had a 'harpoon' that engaged with a drogue basket deployed from the towing aircraft. Google 'Burlaki' https://migluver.wordpress.com/category/history/ http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22662.0 Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnthonyWan Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Actually, you can, in an emergency. The latches on the receiver's receptacle close onto the end of the boom nozzle, and normally will release when limits (side-to-side, fore-and-aft) are reached. In an emergency, you can use a method called Manual Boom Latching, where those limits are overridden, forcing the nozzle to remain in contact, and allowing you to tow the receiver if needed. As I said, it's for emergency use, and can damage both aircraft if not done properly, but yes, you can tow an aircraft, especially a fighter, from the boom. Whoa...That's really cool. So that makes this story a bit more plausible as told haha. Any one got a line on more photos of the SJ jets from this era? -Awan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I love a good mystery to solve! Here is the official write-up nominating the KC-135 crew for the McKay Trophy. Photo of the crew at the bottom of the page: Link The pilot, Lt Col Gloodman, is deceased. The gentleman featured in this article was a crewman on the KC-135. Perhaps somebody with a Facebook account can ask him on behalf of all of us aircraft geeks if he has any info on the serial number of the F-4. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnthonyWan Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 I love a good mystery to solve! Here is the official write-up nominating the KC-135 crew for the McKay Trophy. Photo of the crew at the bottom of the page: Link The pilot, Lt Col Gloodman, is deceased. The gentleman featured in this article was a crewman on the KC-135. Perhaps somebody with a Facebook account can ask him on behalf of all of us aircraft geeks if he has any info on the serial number of the F-4. Ben Interesting. The scribd link doesn't work in your post by the way. Let me see if I could connect with this guy on Facebook. Where does it say he has Facebook by the way... -Anthony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Interesting. The scribd link doesn't work in your post by the way. Let me see if I could connect with this guy on Facebook. Where does it say he has Facebook by the way... -Anthony Hmm. I just clicked the Scribd link and it worked OK. I wonder if it's because I have an account there? I just re-read the article, this time while fully caffeinated. The Facebook link is actually for a filmmaker who is working with the KC-135 crewman to write a book and a screenplay, apparently. Maybe he can put you in touch with the crewman: https://www.facebook.com/helloverhighwater?ref=br_tf Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I did some more researching, and I'm beginning to think the F-4 was actually one from the 334th TFS instead. First of all, on the Sierra Hotel FB page that Mr. Rogoway knicked the story from, one of the people leaving a reply claims it was one from the 334th and that he was a crewchief on that deployment. Second: I found the Squadron History from that period, and it mentions only 18 aircraft from the 336th took part of Crested Cap '83, while 24 jets deployed. Third: In that same squadron history, I don't see a Major Alexander mentioned anywhere, or a mention of the event in question. You would think it would be significant enough to put it in your report. Sadly, I haven't found a similar Squadron History of the 334th from that period yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnthonyWan Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hmm. I just clicked the Scribd link and it worked OK. I wonder if it's because I have an account there? I just re-read the article, this time while fully caffeinated. The Facebook link is actually for a filmmaker who is working with the KC-135 crewman to write a book and a screenplay, apparently. Maybe he can put you in touch with the crewman: https://www.facebook.com/helloverhighwater?ref=br_tf Ben Shot them a message. We'll see what happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Found this while looking at pictures on National Archive website. F-4E Crew saved by KC-135 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Walter Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 As a former "KC" crew chief i can tell you that it is not only possible to tow an F-4 but a likely result. In the boom pod there is actually a "TOW" switch. It was usually labeled "for F-4s. Before a scheduled F-4 refueling mission we had to put grease on the boom nozzle. Otherwise the boom might have been damaged from a Brute Force Disconnect. F-4s were pigs and notorious for not releasing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Very interesting! And welcome to the forum! Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pieter Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 From http://www.sharpshooter-maj.com/html/deploy83.htm CRESTED CAP (Autumn Forge) Ramstein AB (West Germany) 5 SEPTEMBER - 3 OCTOBER 1983 Wing/Squadron (Base/Command) Aircraft Type (Number Deployed) Tailcode (colour) 4 TFW/336 TFS (Seymour-Johnson AFB, Tactical Air Command) F-4E (24) SJ (yellow - except where noted) stagger Deployed Aircraft Serials (Colour) [notes] stagger 71-1397 72-0135[1] 72-0161[3] 72-1479[2] 72-1490 73-1164[1] 73-1165 73-1168[1][2] 73-1172[1] 73-1186 73-1187 73-1188[1] stagger 74-0646 74-0647(bl) 74-0649 74-1040[4] 74-1042 74-1043 74-1047 74-1061 74-1621 74-1627[1] 74-1631 74-1649[5] Further Info Command Post was EC-135K 55-3118 (arrived Rhein Main 5 September) and 59-1518 (arrived Mildenhall 2 October) supervised the return to Seymour-Johnson. The 3 F-4E's that diverted to RAF Alconbury (see below) departed to CONUS 19 October with F-4E 68-0338/GA from CORONET MOAT and 2 ex 401 TFW F-4D's 66-7558/66-7609. The following 4 F-4E's also visited Alconbury for the annual open Day on 24 September, 74-0646, 74-1649 (both static display), 74-1047 & 74-1621. [1] Arrived at Ramstein 6 and 7 September. [2] Diverted to RAF Alconbury 3 October, departed 19 October. [3] Diverted to RAF Alconbury 4 October, departed 19 October. [4] Wing 'Flagship' Marked with large 4 on tail & multi colour fuselage band. [5] Carried yellow fuselage band. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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