torchf4 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 As the desc says. Any info especially pics or drawings would be most helpful! Thanks! Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afspret Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Yes, they received a small number before the unit disbanded. As for pics & drawings (which I don't have access to at the moment 'cause I'm @ work), from what I recall some of the a/c were OD/NG, though some might have had the same camo as the Tomahawks. The markings are also similar to those on the Tomahawks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Yes, they received a small number before the unit disbanded. As for pics & drawings (which I don't have access to at the moment 'cause I'm @ work), from what I recall some of the a/c were OD/NG, though some might have had the same camo as the Tomahawks. The markings are also similar to those on the Tomahawks. Thanks man! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 there's a book out on the AVG, and there are many photos of P40's in there, plus a lot of paintings. There must have been a lot of P40e's as there are a lot of them in the book. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 there's a book out on the AVG, and there are many photos of P40's in there, plus a lot of paintings. There must have been a lot of P40e's as there are a lot of them in the book. gary You happen to know the title by any chance Gary?? Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dragonlance Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The only AVG P-40E photo (not 23rd FG) I have is in Flying Tigers by Paul Szuscikiewicz ISBN 0-8317-2672-5. It shows a shark-mouthed P-40E "white 108", red stripe before tail, green circle on the fuselage and Kuomintang roundels under the wing. It has a bomb slung under the belly. Can't say if the plane is OD/NG or in RAF camo. Vedran The milimeter brigade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KSL Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Sergey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The E's only arrived a few weeks before the AVG was absorbed into the USAAF in 1942. Don't forget - the AVG only existed from late December '41 to early July '42. Less than 7 months from start to finish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You happen to know the title by any chance Gary?? Andy I dig it out for you. Right now I have no idea where it is, but I'll find it so give me a couple days. Most photos are a little grainy looking and are in black & white. Learned a lot about the group and it's various markings. I always thought they were somewhat similar, but they are not! We need decals for several of the air frames (both B&E P40's) gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dragonlance Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Here are a few. Vedran The milimeter brigade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Vorrasi Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Sergey. Look closer at that first photo, claiming to be a CAMCO photo dated June 11, 1942. It is a modern day fake. The pilot has a David Clark noise cancelling headset on. Not quite WW2 issue! That photo looked just a bit too creamy smooth to be a vintage photo. Film should have been grainier, so I looked closer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Thanks for the pics Sergey and Mike for pointing out the first pic! I'm assuming nos 2 and 3 are good then? Would be nice to have awide angle view but this beats no proof at all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Look closer at that first photo, claiming to be a CAMCO photo dated June 11, 1942. It is a modern day fake. The pilot has a David Clark noise cancelling headset on. Not quite WW2 issue! That photo looked just a bit too creamy smooth to be a vintage photo. Film should have been grainier, so I looked closer. Although I agree that the pilot appears to be wearing a modern headset, you must have incredible eyesight to determine (a) that the brand is David Clark (I've used about 10 different brands in my flying career) and ( b )that it is a noise cancelling model. Edited October 21, 2015 by Mfezi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sanmigmike Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I agree with you Mfezi, I've worn a David Clark for most of my flying but not all. I know there were different headsets (including some that were kinda like the ear muff style), not just the cloth or leather helmets back in those days...so I agree more than a bit suspect but not totally sure (and I am most sure that I cannot be positive that it is a DC headset...must less a noise canceling one, I'd only go as far as to say...kinda like a DC style headset. I do wonder about the antennas? or what ever on the belly toward the tail after the belly fairing (or is that somebody's legs? and not too far before the tail wheel well... Don't recall seeing stuff like that on most WWII shots. Of course I will admit I know next to nothing about P-40s but I did know that the Tigers did get a few of the E's before they switched. There were some great fine grain film used in WWII, look at some of the Steichen (among many others) work that was done for the US Navy for one example of great work and great film. Edited October 22, 2015 by sanmigmike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 FWIW, I tend to think it's legit. To me it looks like the khaki-colored cloth over standard headset. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog-03 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't think fluted exhaust pipes came into use until later in the war. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Vorrasi Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) The first photo is a modern warbird. I have seen other pictures of it. It is owned by Dan Lo Russo. Key give-aways are: 1. the camo pattern. All AVG P-40E's were delivered in OD over NG. 2. The presence of camouflage WITH the Chinese national insignia indicates it is not genuine. The only camo P-40E's were received after the AVG was disbanded and became the 23 FG. They used US insignia, including repainting former AVG Tomahawk aircraft. The tricolor discs on the wheel hubs are another give away. No AVG plane wore these. It was a prewar decoration seen on pre-war Mitchell Field NY based P-40s. The other two photos are genuine, but POST-AVG 23rd FG photos. The hat wearing tiger punching through the Chinese insgnia with the flag was the 23 FG's unit marking. The people in the second photo (taken in July 1942 at Kunming) include (L to R) Johnny Alison, Tex Hill, Ajax Baumler and Mack Mitchell. Not sure of the 4th pilot, but Alison and Baumler arrived after the AVG disbanded. Tex Hill was AVG and joined the 23 FG after the AVG disbanded. 23 FG images The third photo is of Crew Chief J.R. Hill on Col. Robert L. Scott's P-40E in Sept. 15,1942 at Kunming. Col Scott's P-40E Edited October 26, 2015 by Michael Vorrasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cool Hand Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Regarding the pinwheel on the wheel hubs, it was definitely used on AVG planes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Vorrasi Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Regarding the pinwheel on the wheel hubs, it was definitely used on AVG planes. Good catch! I although I have never seen it used on any E models of either the AVG or the 23FG. I'd be interested in any photo you might locate. Edited October 26, 2015 by Michael Vorrasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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