Helidriver Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 http://www.ww2aero.com/hawker-hurricane-suffers-landing-accident-at-paine-field-video/ Looks like the right tire starts shimmying on touch down, then prop strike and loss of wheel. Good job by the pilot keeping it upright... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 How did he know he had a problem beforehand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martin_sam_2000 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 umm.. WOW!!! Did not expect that to happen. He seemed to ahve known ahead of time as he asked the fore trucks to be standing by. Wonder what happened. Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve N Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Reminds me of that old Kenny Rogers tune: "You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel..." Seriously though, great job by the pilot. Nobody was hurt, which is the important part. The airplane certainly looks repairable, which is a bonus. SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helidriver Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 I don't think he knew before hand. You can hear ground control start to redirect traffic on the airfield due to the emergency on the runway. I think the firetrucks being there just shows how quickly they can respond. But I might be wrong. The plane should certainly be fixable. That merlin might need a sudden stoppage inspection, and the landing gear leg needs some TLC... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I don't think he knew before hand. You can hear ground control start to redirect traffic on the airfield due to the emergency on the runway. I think the firetrucks being there just shows how quickly they can respond. But I might be wrong. The plane should certainly be fixable. That merlin might need a sudden stoppage inspection, and the landing gear leg needs some TLC... He asks atc for the fire trucks to be waiting on the runway. So obviously knew something was up. Do they have brake sensors on the wheels? Maybe he knew the brake was locked and the wheel wouldn't hold up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I don't think he knew before hand. You can hear ground control start to redirect traffic on the airfield due to the emergency on the runway. I think the firetrucks being there just shows how quickly they can respond. But I might be wrong. The plane should certainly be fixable. That merlin might need a sudden stoppage inspection, and the landing gear leg needs some TLC... I don't know, it sure sounded like he knew something was up. If you listen carefully at the beginning, it does sound like he's making sure the fire trucks are ready to roll. Edited October 9, 2015 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Wow GREAT save! Saved himself from injury (or worse) as well as a priceless aircraft. Great piece of flying ! Regards, Don. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Nice bit of flying...he certainly had his air speed as low as he could before he touched down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 He asks atc for the fire trucks to be waiting on the runway. So obviously knew something was up. Do they have brake sensors on the wheels? Maybe he knew the brake was locked and the wheel wouldn't hold up? He could have had any number of warnings, unsafe gear indication, loss of hydraulic pressure, a shimmy on take-off, his tire may have blown on take-off, he obviously knew he had a problem. There are no brake sensors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helidriver Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Must have missed that part. I stand corrected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Nice flying! Did a great job minimizing damage...though I bet he's a little pissed at himself for the prop strike. Really nothing he could of done there, once that tire locked up but man, heck of a recovery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Would have been a shame to lose that bird. That's why only the select few get to take them up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Would have been a shame to lose that bird. That's why only the select few get to take them up. Yea, those who have money. I tried to start working with a local museum with an eye towards starting at the bottom, sweeping if I must, and climbing the ladder to start flying with them someday. Mind you I was planning on years of work before I touched anything. It was made pretty clear that money is the way to the cockpit, not grunt work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 :D, No brake sensors or anti-skid in those days I'm afraid. A very professional piece of flying there IMHO. I've watched the video several times stopping and starting it and it seems to me that the RH brake locked after touch down. He obviously knew there was some sort of problem before he landed as he requests the fire trucks be standing by and the tower tells him they already are so the problem must have developed on the way in and he notified the tower of this otherwise how would they have known to have the firies standing by. From what I saw I think the nose over was caused by the RH brake being locked on because the elevators were always either neutral or slighthly up until the nose started to go fully over then he applied full up elevator. I don't think the pilot cause the nose over as said by someone in the forum the video was originally posted in. I think he did all he could to prevent the nose over but the drag of the RH hub overcame him. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martin_sam_2000 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 :D/>, No brake sensors or anti-skid in those days I'm afraid. A very professional piece of flying there IMHO. I've watched the video several times stopping and starting it and it seems to me that the RH brake locked after touch down. He obviously knew there was some sort of problem before he landed as he requests the fire trucks be standing by and the tower tells him they already are so the problem must have developed on the way in and he notified the tower of this otherwise how would they have known to have the firies standing by. From what I saw I think the nose over was caused by the RH brake being locked on because the elevators were always either neutral or slighthly up until the nose started to go fully over then he applied full up elevator. I don't think the pilot cause the nose over as said by someone in the forum the video was originally posted in. I think he did all he could to prevent the nose over but the drag of the RH hub overcame him. :cheers:/>, Ross. I am going to aggree to disagree on that one. IO am no expert, but to my eye it looks like the right tire is flat. as the aircraft settles the right tire is mroe and more distorted to the point that the rim touches the ground. That is the moment it noses over and skids sideways, ripping the tires off and causing the prop strike. How he knew the tire was flat is the big question. Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This video is actually from July 24. I think the FAA report stated he blew a tire on take-off. He was landing with a flat main gear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Would landing on the grass with a flat tire be a better option or would that make things worse? I would think if the right brake was locked..then landing on the grass would have been better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 :D, Hi Sean. I did see the flat tyre but I wasn't sure if it was flat before he touched down or if it blew or went flat because of a brake that locked for some reason after touchdown. It now seems that the tyre blew on take off so he already knew about the problem. I believe that the rest of what I said is true though. I still don't think he nosed the Hurri over because the elevtors were never in the down position, always neutral or slgihtly up until the nose started to go over then he applied full up elevator pretty quickly to try and prevent the nose over but was overpowered by the drag from the RH wheel hub. At least in viewing the video several times stopping and starting it that's what seemed to my eyes to have happened. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sanmigmike Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 What tail dragging flying I did was long ago and I tended to do three point landings (biggest were 600 hp ag planes). Dunno about the Hurricane and the good and bad about three pointing versus a wheel landing. You'd be a bit faster wheel landing but that would give you more control due to more air passing over the controls. Unless I had a marked dirt or grass runway I'd stick with the hard runway... Not sure how the CFR people want to do much off roading unless they really have to and they know the surface is okay for their heavy trucks...and the big crash trucks are really heavy. The other factor I'd worry about is the the wheel coming off and the gear leg sticking in the dirt. I've read more than one "history" by WWII pilots that commented on that happening and the aircraft going over on to its back. Flying things in "airline" service from Navajos to DC-10s I've never had a ground school suggest that we look for a dirt or grass stript to land on in the case of an emergency (okay, in Southern California you think about Edwards BUT you stick to the marked areas on the lake bed...no guarantees if you go outside the marked areas, you can have two and three foot ridges). You land off a marked runway and there is no guarantee that it is safe. You could have drainage ditches, above ground services and old bits of concrete from old buildings, ramps, taxiways and runways. Also what about running down the dirt or grass next to a runway and have to cross a taxiway...might be smooth, might not be...might have signs, not not have signs...you just don't know. Stick to marked runways and taxiways and when you get to heavier aircraft you really have to for weight reasons and even in the little ones (and big ones) you risk hitting lights and signs. He could have killed the engine on short final but again, maybe that would have cost him pneumatics or hydraulics or both? You would need to look at the flight manual on that and I'd guess they might have something on landing a Hurricane with a flat tire somewhere since this could not be the first time it happened. Wasn't my landing but I was with a guy that landed a Shorts 360 with his feet on the brakes. Not a good idea. His second time!! ("We used to land Cherokee 6's in Alaska on gravel that way!"...it wasn't a Cherokee and we sure as heck were not landing on a gravel bar in Alaska!) Closed a runway for a few hours and ruined a tire, wheel and brakes. Had a fellow pilot take off in a Bandit (I think at KLAX) and as they lifted off after rotating he noticed a wheel bouncing down the runway before it slowed and the angle changed they couldn't see it. Asked the tower to look for it and it was confirmed that there was a Bandit wheel on the ground. He said the landing wasn't that big of deal but of course the equipment was rolled...no charge for rolling those guys so it is better to roll and not need them than the opposite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmccarron Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Glad to see there were no injuries. BUT WAIT! Was that the Tirpitz in the background (about 3:18) running up in the top right of the frame??? 😱 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yea, those who have money. I tried to start working with a local museum with an eye towards starting at the bottom, sweeping if I must, and climbing the ladder to start flying with them someday. Mind you I was planning on years of work before I touched anything. It was made pretty clear that money is the way to the cockpit, not grunt work. No doubt. Isn't there a country singer out there who just recently got his B-29 rating with the CAF? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Not doubting the guys piloting abilities but I'm sure a hefty donation went a long way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 ...BUT WAIT! Was that the Tirpitz in the background (about 3:18) running up in the top right of the frame??? 😱 You mean this? http://flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Assuming you had a safe grass field, I doubt that it would make much difference on the run off distance since you could not use the brakes to stop the bird. Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Would landing on the grass with a flat tire be a better option or would that make things worse? I would think if the right brake was locked..then landing on the grass would have been better. Considering a tire is used to help distribute a heavy load over a surface, a grass landing might have been dicey if the ground was wet (and still a bit of a concern if the ground was dry). The likely concern there would be the gear leg might have dug into the surface and caused the bird to hook the dirt and perhaps cartwheel, especially if the blown tire had caused the wheel on that side to lock up completely. At least he knew the failed wheel wasn't going to dig into the paved strip. I believe in the event of a gear problem in a fighter like that for a grass field landing (even though the RAF had their planes designed for grass field use) would be to retract both wheels, cut the engine and just belly land it. Back then, they could always just replace what broke and replace the engine and prop. The major expense with this one is the mandatory check of the engine (including crankshaft run out) due to the prop strike. Could have been a lot worse! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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