F-4 and F-15 borderless insignia. Why?

[f4h1phantom]

Anybody knows the reason why McDonnell used borderless insignias when they started camouflaging the F-4? And why was that later adopted by McDonnell Douglas for the F-15, while at about the same time the F-4 was reverting back to the "standard" ones?

Not the best of pics, but think everybody knows what I'm talking about:

Just curious. Thanks in advance!

Jorge.

[Dmanton300]

Simply put, it was the first step on the road to low visibility.

[ikar]

Then again, not every aircraft used them at all.

[Jennings]

The borderless insignias in the OP long predate both of those photos.

[Paul Boyer]

Not sure, but believe it was a McDoug invention and first applied to the early F-15s. May have just been a case of making the insignia look more modern, and some of the stickers were applied to F-4s. Don't know of any other types that got 'em.

[ikar]

Yes., as far as I remember it did first appear on the F-15.

The shot of the RF4 was taken at Kadena in the early to mid 80s and the other one was taken here in the late 80s to early 90s or perhaps a bit later.

[f4h1phantom]

Just a bit more details to make things clearer (?).

On F-4s the borderless insignia appeared when the factory started applying camouflage, the first aircraft being (as far as I am aware) F-4C-25-MC 64-0882, the first from the last block of F-4Cs. All F-4Ds and many of the first F-4Es, up to around FY70 aircraft (just a guesstimation) also received them. The first FACTORY CAMOUFLAGED aircraft (F-4Cs)should have been delivered around 1965/6 while the last (F-4Es) with that type of insignia, around the 1972/73 timeframe. Note we are only talking about SEA colors here and that the borderless insignia lasted only until the aircraft received a new coat of paint at the appropriate USAF facility. As a side note, let's not forget that underside insignias DID have the blue border!

F-4Cs delivered from the factory in the Gull Grey and White scheme and overpainted/repainted in SEA colors did NOT adopt the borderless insignia (there may have been a couple of exceptions).

The first F-15A flew on 27 July 1972, roughly about the same time the borderless insignia was dropped from FACTORY CAMOUFLAGED F-4Es. Yet, it was adopted for use on F-15s! It lasted for quite long until the low visibility versions started showing up.

Always wondered what was the story behind this deviation from the standard. Don't know why I didn't ask before.

Thanks all for the replies,

Jorge.

Edited October 15, 2015 by f4h1phantom

[Jennings]

I have no specific knowledge on the "why", but I have a theory that's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Those insignias were a large decal, made by an outside contractor and applied at the McAir factory. It's *possible* that the lack of a blue border around the bars was simply a mistake in interpretation of the specifications, and nobody bothered to correct it, since a large number of the decals may have already been produced.

Stranger things have happened.

[Ben Brown]

I have no specific knowledge on the "why", but I have a theory that's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Those insignias were a large decal, made by an outside contractor and applied at the McAir factory. It's *possible* that the lack of a blue border around the bars was simply a mistake in interpretation of the specifications, and nobody bothered to correct it, since a large number of the decals may have already been produced.

Stranger things have happened.

Interesting theory. Also, it could've been McAir just doing their own thing, like NAA did for the non-standard styles of the "USAF" and buzz numbers for the F-86 and F-100.

Another McAir difference with the F-4 was the factory camouflage pattern was slightly different from the pattern specified in the T.O.

Ben

[Rich in name only]

Seems a start to low-vis would be to drop the white.

The black outline insignia did that although the lines didn't really match anything original in the formerly white area.

Ironically, the white bar started to make planes more easily identifiable as US. Read somewhere that at a distance the bar and star blended so that pilots seeing white knew the plane was US, ultimately why NZ and UK planes in Pacific had a white bar. Not sure if this applied in Europe where French planes had a bar--think that was US planes turned over where the French applied their own insignia without removing the white; thus a white bar top left wing, roundel without bar on top right wing on B-26s.

[pookie]

I have no specific knowledge on the "why", but I have a theory that's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Those insignias were a large decal, made by an outside contractor and applied at the McAir factory. It's *possible* that the lack of a blue border around the bars was simply a mistake in interpretation of the specifications, and nobody bothered to correct it, since a large number of the decals may have already been produced.

Stranger things have happened.

I agree with that, it happens all the time.